HELP! Can't Stop Bleeding!

[June]

Sorry guys for the late reply. Between the bleeding and the running back and forth to the acupuncture apptments. I'm spent. I have so much to write to these replies but would like to take more time to read through again but I am so thankful for the help here. @Ella calcium d glucarate has helped minimize the hot flashes/sinus congestion the one time birth control pills caused and time wasn't helping those symptoms leave. I suppose I had a lot of synthetic estrogen metabolites floating around. Too bad it causes anxiety/exhaustion in me. I then read that calcium is excitatory and magnesium deficiency can make it worse. I took 400mg magnesium to see if it offset the side effects from CDG but no, didn't do much. I may be deficient in everything including magnesium.

My health failed considerably after the benzo withdrawals for 4.5 years so I know I am deficient in most vitamins/minerals. I have gut dysbiosis and celiac intolerance. Ok lets assume I am deficient in magnesium, vit D, vit K, riboflavin, b12 etc. What is quickest way to increase these if supplements are not a good option. Can supplements be utilized till body gets back on its feet? I have so many allergies that most foods are off limits due to weakened immune system/gut system. I am currently on one desiccated liver pill and working my way up. I also make liver soup and want to incorporate apples and oranges after each meal. Just started boiling mushrooms, so results to be determined from that. Carrots seem to make me more constipated.

 

[faramir]

So sorry to hear about your problem. I just wanted to share my late husband's(MD- acupuncturist-alternative health) treatment on a patient that I witnessed. He injected Vitamin K directly into the acupuncture point, SP 8(spleen meridian). It was extremely effective for her and she got almost immediate relief that lasted. You may want to discuss it with your acupuncturist.
SP 8 Clinical Usages

• Xi Cleft Point - acute and painful menstrual issues due to Blood stagnation - clotting, fibroids, dysmenorrhea, irregular menstruation.
• Male infertility - seminal emission, depleted essence.

I hope you get relief!

 

[ecstatichamster]

I would say it’s always estrogen.

 

[CatCat]

Sorry guys for the late reply. Between the bleeding and the running back and forth to the acupuncture apptments. I'm spent. I have so much to write to these replies but would like to take more time to read through again but I am so thankful for the help here. @Ella calcium d glucarate has helped minimize the hot flashes/sinus congestion the one time birth control pills caused and time wasn't helping those symptoms leave. I suppose I had a lot of synthetic estrogen metabolites floating around. Too bad it causes anxiety/exhaustion in me. I then read that calcium is excitatory and magnesium deficiency can make it worse. I took 400mg magnesium to see if it offset the side effects from CDG but no, didn't do much. I may be deficient in everything including magnesium.

My health failed considerably after the benzo withdrawals for 4.5 years so I know I am deficient in most vitamins/minerals. I have gut dysbiosis and celiac intolerance. Ok lets assume I am deficient in magnesium, vit D, vit K, riboflavin, b12 etc. What is quickest way to increase these if supplements are not a good option. Can supplements be utilized till body gets back on its feet? I have so many allergies that most foods are off limits due to weakened immune system/gut system. I am currently on one desiccated liver pill and working my way up. I also make liver soup and want to incorporate apples and oranges after each meal. Just started boiling mushrooms, so results to be determined from that. Carrots seem to make me more constipated.

Hi June
I was used to heavy bleeding over months because of my uterine fibroids. One day I finished at the hospital where they had to give me blood as I could not stand on my feet one day after having heavily bled non-stop during nearly one hour.
I started to try vitamin d3 and k2 at very high dose which of course is not recommended.
But it worked for me. I still have heavy bleeding but just for 1-2 days. My periods duration is now 1 week. I tried to decrease the d3 dosage but failed each time, I experienced heavy bleeding again outside the periods.
I am currently trying Ray Peat recommendations to optimize the thyroid and I hope that it may help to reduce my fibroids. I also hope I can reduce high doses of D3.
I don't know if it can help you but it may be a temporary solution.

 

[June]

Ok time to address some of the comments as bleeding has slowed down a bit from acupuncture. I hear the comments on the low progesterone @ecstatichamster and I'm sure it plays a huge part in this bleeding debacle. But at the same time, intuitively I feel there is more to it. Yes my progesterone has been imbalanced by the glutathione but I question why. Why did it make me bleed and it didn't have this affect on other people? It seems like such an innocuous supplement for people to take. Also when I took Terry natural sublingual glutathione, it turned my tongue and teeth black. I contacted the company regarding this and supposedly they have never heard of it, I figured the sulfur was reacting a specific way in my body.

@Hugh Johnson I definitely took up EFT and self acupressure when I went delirious on the birth control pills. My acupuncturist taught me some spots on my hand I can put pressure on to minimize bleeding.

@Ella -not sure if I ovulate and I am definitely deficient in Vitamin D and many more. In past, I was given 5000-10000 IU for deficiency. Would 2000 IU be enough and should I take it with Vitamin k2-MK7? I lived a very housebound life(only went to doctors apptments) for the last 4.5 yrs due to benzo withdrawals. Pale as a ghost and probably detrimentally anemic at this point. All this at the hands of doctors. So life has been me as a ball of high cortisol irrationally fearful for my life. My naturopath thought he would mitigate that fear with glutathione. I should have known to just have left it alone to heal or just dealt with it nutritionally. Actually I believe I am deficient in B2. Naturopath was supposed to add it into the Meyers cocktail he wanted to give me but instead went with glutathione :/ I worry in taking things in isolation. Would it be a terrible idea to take a multivitamin to get the B2? How much would I take? I stayed away from all b complexes and B vitamins because my withdrawal caused my brain to be inflamed/sensitive and supplements had a tendency to stimulate. Not sure how to incorporate that with my desiccated liver pills.

EDIT: @Ella I read your next post and it seems it's not advisable to take high B vitamins? I was considering supplementing B6, B12 and zinc because those are the vitamins that are depleted by birth control pills. So would supplementing with B2 and Vitamin D be okay as a standalone? Would Iron supps be a bad idea for the time being?

@tankasnowgod - I am taking desiccated liver. Due to benzo withdrawal, brain was too sensitive to take B vitamins. My ferritin has tanked but hemoglobin was okay before the bleed out. Not sure what it is now since I am waiting to stop bleeding to get test done. Did you take b complex along with multivitamin? isnt that too much? especially if you are taking the liver pills too?

@roguesandy - I'm so sorry to read you went through something similar =( You understand the murder scene analogy. I can't do enough laundry. Progesterone would have to be my last resort. I have so much going on right now I don't know what came first. The chicken or the egg. I feel my "brain injury" has a lot to do with it.

@Rafael Lao Wai - I have heard that Vitamin K2 is better? Especially the MK7 one?

@faramir Ohh very interesting about the acupuncture and vitamin K. I'll bring this up to my acupuncturist. Thank you!

@CatCat - Glad to hear you are doing better! Mind me asking how high is high for Vitamin D and K2 that you take? Naturopath gave me 5000-10000 IU of Vitamin D to take years ago but he never added in K2. Any side effects?

Can anyone explain to me how a menstrual cycle works? My floods initially started gushing every hour and continue nonstop 5 months ago after glutathione. Last month I was gushing every 3 hours and period would continue till I got acupuncture ten days into period. Now I'm gushing every 5 hours nonstop. There is improvement in the timeframe between floods but it gradually floods more as the days go by and there's no end to the period. For example, this month I spotted on Jan 9th. Jan 12th heavy bleeding started by Jan 18th it seems to get heavier and there's no end in sight, therefore back to acupuncture I go. What is happening in my body? What controls these cycles and why does it gradually get heavier after 7 days instead of stopping? Many many blessings to you all.

PS. don't know if the change can be attributed to the small usage of DIM and Calcium D Glucarate. I haven't been consistent with them due to the side effects.

 

[tankasnowgod]

@tankasnowgod - I am taking desiccated liver. Due to benzo withdrawal, brain was too sensitive to take B vitamins. My ferritin has tanked but hemoglobin was okay before the bleed out. Not sure what it is now since I am waiting to stop bleeding to get test done. Did you take b complex along with multivitamin? isnt that too much? especially if you are taking the liver pills too?

I did take both B complexes, and Iron Free Mutlivitamins, but not at the same time. It was over a period of several months. I used B complexes some months, and Iron Free Multi others. I wasn't taking dessicated liver at the time, as I was lowering iron stores. If you're already taking dessicated liver, that should cover all the B vitamins, and iron too.

 

[SQu]

June, there's a thread on progesterone slowing heavy prolonged flow
Heavy bleeding

and the Katharina Dalton one saying eat three hourly to help your body produce more of its own progesterone.

Katharina Dalton: The Dietary "musts" For Improving Progesterone (Hint: No Low Carb, No Starvation)

There's also one on gelatin which I don't think has been mentioned so far, (and which I can't seem to find right now). That's the approach that has worked very well for me. The amount of gelatin is something like 50-60g a day. A search on gelatin and bleeding will also throw up several Peat articles.

 

[tara]

Hi June,

Hope things are improving for you.
A couple of thoughts from a non-expert.
It would be good if you had a health professional who understood what was going on, given that your situation sounds reasonably serious. Are you living with other people who will notice if you need help?
Perhaps I missed it, but aside form comments about being deficient in some things, are you also generally undernourished? Are you managing to eat decent

If you haven't yet read Peat's articles on progesterone and thyroid, there are some on his website: raypeat.com.
Doctors often say thyroid levels are normal because they are inside a (wide) standard range, but seeing the actual numbers may tell a useful story - if you want to share.

I'd guess that Ella's diet advice is worth paying attention to, if you can, and Sheila's. If you are able to get fresh liver, try recipes to find a way you can enjoy it, whether it's quick fired with veges or turned into pate with herbs or spices or whatever. And the references to Katherine Dalton.
If you want to, you can use something like cronometer to see roughly what nutrition you are getting from your diet (but ignore it's low calorie advice - you will likely need to build your strength, not deplete it). And post here about what and how much you are eating if you want to get comments.

The progesterone in vit-E supplements that some here use via the gums have advantages in that they are quickly absorbed, and can also be stopped quickly. It wouldn't surprise me if that could be relevant. But getting a nourishing diet in place comes first, I think.

Along with other things to support your general health, are you managing to get some regular sunlight on your skin?

Good luck.

 

[CatCat]

Ok time to address some of the comments as bleeding has slowed down a bit from acupuncture. I hear the comments on the low progesterone @ecstatichamster and I'm sure it plays a huge part in this bleeding debacle. But at the same time, intuitively I feel there is more to it. Yes my progesterone has been imbalanced by the glutathione but I question why. Why did it make me bleed and it didn't have this affect on other people? It seems like such an innocuous supplement for people to take. Also when I took Terry natural sublingual glutathione, it turned my tongue and teeth black. I contacted the company regarding this and supposedly they have never heard of it, I figured the sulfur was reacting a specific way in my body.

@Hugh Johnson I definitely took up EFT and self acupressure when I went delirious on the birth control pills. My acupuncturist taught me some spots on my hand I can put pressure on to minimize bleeding.

@Ella -not sure if I ovulate and I am definitely deficient in Vitamin D and many more. In past, I was given 5000-10000 IU for deficiency. Would 2000 IU be enough and should I take it with Vitamin k2-MK7? I lived a very housebound life(only went to doctors apptments) for the last 4.5 yrs due to benzo withdrawals. Pale as a ghost and probably detrimentally anemic at this point. All this at the hands of doctors. So life has been me as a ball of high cortisol irrationally fearful for my life. My naturopath thought he would mitigate that fear with glutathione. I should have known to just have left it alone to heal or just dealt with it nutritionally. Actually I believe I am deficient in B2. Naturopath was supposed to add it into the Meyers cocktail he wanted to give me but instead went with glutathione :/ I worry in taking things in isolation. Would it be a terrible idea to take a multivitamin to get the B2? How much would I take? I stayed away from all b complexes and B vitamins because my withdrawal caused my brain to be inflamed/sensitive and supplements had a tendency to stimulate. Not sure how to incorporate that with my desiccated liver pills.

EDIT: @Ella I read your next post and it seems it's not advisable to take high B vitamins? I was considering supplementing B6, B12 and zinc because those are the vitamins that are depleted by birth control pills. So would supplementing with B2 and Vitamin D be okay as a standalone? Would Iron supps be a bad idea for the time being?

@tankasnowgod - I am taking desiccated liver. Due to benzo withdrawal, brain was too sensitive to take B vitamins. My ferritin has tanked but hemoglobin was okay before the bleed out. Not sure what it is now since I am waiting to stop bleeding to get test done. Did you take b complex along with multivitamin? isnt that too much? especially if you are taking the liver pills too?

@roguesandy - I'm so sorry to read you went through something similar =( You understand the murder scene analogy. I can't do enough laundry. Progesterone would have to be my last resort. I have so much going on right now I don't know what came first. The chicken or the egg. I feel my "brain injury" has a lot to do with it.

@Rafael Lao Wai - I have heard that Vitamin K2 is better? Especially the MK7 one?

@faramir Ohh very interesting about the acupuncture and vitamin K. I'll bring this up to my acupuncturist. Thank you!

@CatCat - Glad to hear you are doing better! Mind me asking how high is high for Vitamin D and K2 that you take? Naturopath gave me 5000-10000 IU of Vitamin D to take years ago but he never added in K2. Any side effects?

Can anyone explain to me how a menstrual cycle works? My floods initially started gushing every hour and continue nonstop 5 months ago after glutathione. Last month I was gushing every 3 hours and period would continue till I got acupuncture ten days into period. Now I'm gushing every 5 hours nonstop. There is improvement in the timeframe between floods but it gradually floods more as the days go by and there's no end to the period. For example, this month I spotted on Jan 9th. Jan 12th heavy bleeding started by Jan 18th it seems to get heavier and there's no end in sight, therefore back to acupuncture I go. What is happening in my body? What controls these cycles and why does it gradually get heavier after 7 days instead of stopping? Many many blessings to you all.

PS. don't know if the change can be attributed to the small usage of DIM and Calcium D Glucarate. I haven't been consistent with them due to the side effects.

@June
Sorry for the late reply. I take 40000 IU of D3 and 600 micro g of K2. Sometimes I feel some tension in joints. I also take gelatin.
I hope you'll find a solution for your bleeding.

 

[somuch4food]

I seem to have missed the alert on this one when @Blossom called upon me.

Foremost, I want to say that I am using a more intuitive approach to health. I do read theory, but I do not have the time to fully grasp it. Everything I say is what I would try if I was currently dealing with your situation.

Unfortunately, I have had few periods since staring my health journey (I was still breastfeeding), so I have not had much chance to experiment with the effect of my diet on my period. The first one was better (I could actually lower the pain just by eating more). No need for ibuprofen which I needed to function in the first 2 days before pregnancy. The next one was a bit worse, but I was also feeling worse before the period and I needed one pill.

Like @tara, I'm wondering if you are eating enough. You mention being sensitive to a lot of foods. If your sensitivity symptoms are not unbearable, I would probably ignore some in favor of more nutrition. You need nutrients to heal.

The fact that you mention that it worsens as the day go by, I'm thinking your body is unable to heal whatever is causing the bleeding. During sleep, your body starts the repair, but the stress during the day halts the healing and the wound opens up again.

My more concrete advice would be to eat nutrient/calorie dense foods. More animal products since they contain more vitamins and are low in fibers which gives your digestive system a break. I would add some low fiber starches to make animal products more appetizing (rice, potatoes...).

Although not Peaty, I would also add nuts and sunflower seeds to your diet. I have had success with those for regulating my sugar crashes, they also seem to calm me and make me feel more grounded. There's actually a theory (PEO - Parent Essential Oil) that PUFA are essential, but most people are deficient because the oils used today are adulterated (rancid). I know Peat refutes the theory of cell membrane which are made of a combination of PUFA and SFA. I'm not looking for a debate, just throwing a possible solution at someone who needs help.

 

[June]

So sorry for the late reply. I have been dealing with the bleeding and back and forth with acupuncture/doctors appointments. I'm just exhausted. I don't believe I am malnourished as I eat enough for 2 people Issue is whether I absorb it or not. I am still confused by recent blood tests though. The ratio of estradiol to progesterone is 227 pmol/L estradiol to <0.5 nmol/L progesterone. Does this mean i am estrogen dominant? but there are ranges on the test like mid-cycle and Luteal phases where estrogen levels over 1000 pmol/L are deemed normal. Or am I actually too low in estrogen too since it is only at 227. Can someone help me as I have no knowledge on this.


Also I am extremely low in hemoglobin and ferritin and if it drops any lower I will need to go in for a blood transfusion. I have been doing livers and meats and my levels never budged. I will have to resort to iron supplements 2x a day for now plus the plant and heme source irons. This is going to be fun on the constipation (excuse my sarcasm)

 

[Waynish]

I would be using thyroid and progesterone. Lots of progesterone.

Yep and epsom salt bath at least 2x a week + sun. If you can't get sun then go to tanning salon for 2-3m @ 2x/week.

 

[tara]

I don't believe I am malnourished as I eat enough for 2 people

I think it can be hard to assess this realistically without measuring and calculating it at least occasionally. If you are losing a lot regularly, you probably need quite a bit more than the average woman. (According to Olwyn, 2500 kcals/day is roughly average for a mature woman.) Can you access average daily calories, protein, carbs? Checked whether you are covering basics on other micro nutrients?
One way to get a rough idea is something like cronometer . com.

Another thought along with all the rest you have to contend with - are you getting some vit-K? I ask because for me occasionally supplementing a mg or 3 of K2 seems to be the difference that prevents excessive bruising and too-easy bleeding from minor cuts etc.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Hello June,

I'm very sorry to hear of your bleeding issue. I don't hang around here much, but I happened upon your thread and feel compelled to offer my personal anecdote.

There have been several times during my 40 year Menstrual Career where I've experienced your situation: excessively heavy bleeding (truly massive blood loss) or cycling every two weeks or bleeding constantly for 20+ days, etc.

However, I noticed that the ONLY times this occurs is when I have very low levels of progesterone during the winter (low levels of light) and/or when I don't have enough thyroid hormone (despite docs telling me my levels were "fine").

So my vote is with ecstatichamster and the others: please consider temporarily flooding yourself with Progest-E, it's not forever, just until you stabilize. Also, flood yourself with red light, have you had your vitamin D tested? In addition, experiment with all of the other estrogen reducing hacks and seriously consider taking some T3. It's crucial.

I'm 52 years young with a loooong history of hypothyroidism and I'm currently in the throes of menopause (YAY!). For me it would be damn near impossible to get my cycle under control during winter without supplementing T3, Progest-E, vitamin D3 and daily red light exposure.

GOOD LUCK TO YOU!!!

 

[June]

Hi again, I will definitely need to get to that Cronometer soon but for now it is tough to navigate with this brain fog and exhaustion. I'm sure I reach about 2000 kcals a day. Because of my history with medication withdrawals(antidepressant/benzos), anything that was ever given to me backfired in the healing process. That included any progesterone or T3's or natural thyroid..anything. It's as if my body was imbalanced to a point where anything that was used to balance it would further imbalance it. Or I simply grew an allergy to everything. My body took such a blow that anytime I had levels tested, those levels would always rectify themselves with time. You would assume that time would allow the situation to get worse or levels to suddenly drop to nothing. I have an opposite effect when the body has gone through trauma and it rejects anything used to fix it. Which is why I am so very apprehensive about adding something when I'm not quite sure what my body is doing. I am in this spot only because of a supplement that caused this bleeding. I just turned 35 and my menses and health were really healing well up until that point I put that supplement glutathione in me. I will consider Progest-E when push comes to shove and theres no other option. But till then I do need to get my iron reserves up and some say iron bisglycinate is preferred and some use Proferring which is a bovine type heme source. Anyone use these? Also if someone can help with my hormone results question. Appreciate all the help here!

EDIT: it is doom and gloom grey skies here in Canada so tanning bed doesnt sound like too bad of an idea right now. Though pricey per session.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Hi again, I will definitely need to get to that Cronometer soon but for now it is tough to navigate with this brain fog and exhaustion. I'm sure I reach about 2000 kcals a day. Because of my history with medication withdrawals(antidepressant/benzos), anything that was ever given to me backfired in the healing process. That included any progesterone or T3's or natural thyroid..anything. It's as if my body was imbalanced to a point where anything that was used to balance it would further imbalance it. Or I simply grew an allergy to everything. My body took such a blow that anytime I had levels tested, those levels would always rectify themselves with time. You would assume that time would allow the situation to get worse or levels to suddenly drop to nothing. I have an opposite effect when the body has gone through trauma and it rejects anything used to fix it. Which is why I am so very apprehensive about adding something when I'm not quite sure what my body is doing. I am in this spot only because of a supplement that caused this bleeding. I just turned 35 and my menses and health were really healing well up until that point I put that supplement glutathione in me. I will consider Progest-E when push comes to shove and theres no other option. But till then I do need to get my iron reserves up and some say iron bisglycinate is preferred and some use Proferring which is a bovine type heme source. Anyone use these? Also if someone can help with my hormone results question. Appreciate all the help here!

EDIT: it is doom and gloom grey skies here in Canada so tanning bed doesnt sound like too bad of an idea right now. Though pricey per session.

Red light and tanning beds are not the same.

I suggest drinking your own urine. Might work. I do it, it's pretty great. Anyway you should listen to bigpeatowski, she seems to have an understanding of female issues.

 

[CatCat]

Hi again, I will definitely need to get to that Cronometer soon but for now it is tough to navigate with this brain fog and exhaustion. I'm sure I reach about 2000 kcals a day. Because of my history with medication withdrawals(antidepressant/benzos), anything that was ever given to me backfired in the healing process. That included any progesterone or T3's or natural thyroid..anything. It's as if my body was imbalanced to a point where anything that was used to balance it would further imbalance it. Or I simply grew an allergy to everything. My body took such a blow that anytime I had levels tested, those levels would always rectify themselves with time. You would assume that time would allow the situation to get worse or levels to suddenly drop to nothing. I have an opposite effect when the body has gone through trauma and it rejects anything used to fix it. Which is why I am so very apprehensive about adding something when I'm not quite sure what my body is doing. I am in this spot only because of a supplement that caused this bleeding. I just turned 35 and my menses and health were really healing well up until that point I put that supplement glutathione in me. I will consider Progest-E when push comes to shove and theres no other option. But till then I do need to get my iron reserves up and some say iron bisglycinate is preferred and some use Proferring which is a bovine type heme source. Anyone use these? Also if someone can help with my hormone results question. Appreciate all the help here!

EDIT: it is doom and gloom grey skies here in Canada so tanning bed doesnt sound like too bad of an idea right now. Though pricey per session.

Dear June
Your story reminds me the time I used to have red meat and liver for breakfast. I also became allergic to most plants, iron supplements and dairy. It didn't prevent me from ending up to the hospital because I lost too much blood and my body could not make blood as fast as needed. I really hope you'll never come to experience what I've been through.
I think it is a good advice to try progest-e. it is made with a plant extract. I have ordered it for myself as I want to reduce my D3/K2 intake. I have to wait until march because I live in France and I want to save the delivery fees.
Take care.