Hello Peating, goodbye autoimmune issues and belly fat

[dd99]

Hello!

Thank you to everyone who posts on this forum! I'm very grateful for this wealth of information. I look forward to joining in.

Sorry for the long post!

What's your age?
35

How did you find the forum?
Googling 'red dots on skin'.

How did you find Ray Peat's work?
Originally through Paleohacks.com (ha!), then Google, then Danny Roddy.

How long have you been Peating?
4 weeks.

What is your favorite part about Peating?
Feeling warmer, feeling cleansed (going at least twice a day), feeling leaner.

What is the worst part?
Trying to explain to my wife how I've suddenly diverged so dramatically from the Paleo/intermittent fasting path. Blocking out the voice in back of my head saying I'll get diabetes from sugar. Bukowski and Dewitt questioning everything Ray Peat on Peatarian.com, sowing doubts in my mind.

What are your health issues?
Alopecia areata, red dots (cherry angiomas), gynecomastia (puffy nipples), stubborn belly fat, male pattern baldness, low body temperature, cold hands, gnawing pain in calves.

I played a lot of sports at school (mainly rugby, rowing and sprinting). I always ate a lot of meat, seafood and veggies, and a fair amount of fruit and starchy carbs. A lot of ice cream. My brother and I are much taller than our parents, which we always joke is because of the hormones in Australian meat. In my late teens I started developing gynecomastia - man boobs. No matter how lean I got, they were always along for the ride.

In 2003, I developed an alopecia areata patch the size of a 50 pence coin on the side of my head. Up until that time, I ate according to conventional wisdom (grains for breakfast, lunch and dinner, PUFAs, etc), so the areata patch - my first 'health problem' - made me curious about nutrition. After messing about with various diets for a few years, I read Primal Blueprint and followed the Primal/Paleo path, fine tuning as I went.

In 2010 I started Leangains (16/8 intermittent fasting with carb cycling), but stuck to Paleo for my food. I love eating big meals, so I looked forward to gorging myself twice a day. I had constantly cold hands and my belly kept getting fatter somehow, but I was 'fit': my pulse rate was 50.

In 2012 I began eating a lot of fermented foods (homemade kefir and sauerkraut), bone broth (simmered for 24 hours) and taking fermented cod liver oil and butter oil. I suddenly didn't have hayfever anymore for the first time in a decade (my symptoms used to be: itchy eyes and nose, sneezing and a rash on both hands). But my alopecia areata patch never left me, which always made me wonder whether I had truly fixed my autoimmune condition.

What prompted me to start reading Ray Peat's work was when I did a search for 'red dots on skin'. I have had cherry angiomas since my late teens. This past year, I have developed more dots than in the previous ten. I wondered, could it be the FCLO, the fermented foods? Google led me to the RP forum where Peata said they were linked to estrogen. I thought 'hang on, I have had my man boobs since my late teens, too, and those are obviously estrogen related'. I started digging. Wow - tick - freezing hands (which Leangains experts interpret as 'blood flowing towards your belly fat'). Low heart rate - tick. And this past year I have been going bald up top - in the 'normal', non 50 pence coin patch way - tick. So, after a few weeks of reading and following the dots (literally!), I was ready to start Peating.

I have felt generally good in my first month. I started out on cow's milk but had clogged sinuses for a week (which never happens). After switching to goat's milk, that cleared up overnight. But I do have three concerns: I am developing a new bald patch in one of my eyebrows (another alopecia areata patch); I have an occasional gnawing feeling in my calves (not quite cramp, more of a pressure); and I am starting to get my hayfever symptoms again (also autoimmune?), for the first time in two years.

Also, I know Peating is about healing, but I don't want to gain any fat. Over the past month, I haven't gained or lost any weight and my waist measurement hasn't changed, and I feel somehow leaner. But I do have a fair amount of belly fat to get rid of, so I was wondering if there is anything inherently wrong with no-fat milk? Will I be missing out on any vitamins or nutrients?


What does your diet consist of? If you post a detailed outline of your diet members can take a look at it and maybe see things that can help optimize it.

0700 Breakfast
- 500ml orange juice (organic, not from concentrate)
- 2 free-range organic eggs cooked in 1tsp coconut oil with a couple of pinches of Diamond kosher salt
- 500ml organic coffee with 500ml semi-skimmed goat's milk (I had blocked sinuses from cow's milk) and 1tsp honey

0730 Supplement
- 5 drops of haidut's EstroBan (A, D, E, K2)

1030 Snack
- 500ml semi-skimmed goat's milk
- Fruit (e.g. 150g seedless grapes)

1330 "Lunch" (not really lunch, but the next mini meal)
- 500ml homemade bone broth (from lamb shanks) with 1 heaped teaspoon Great Lakes green gelatin and a few pinches of salt
- Carrot salad (1tsp coconut oil, grated lengthways, 1tsp Bragg's apple cider vinegar, couple of pinches of salt)

1630 Snack
- 500ml semi-skimmed goat's milk
- Fruit (e.g. 250g watermelon)

1900 Dinner

Once a week, I make a bolognese sauce with 500g (for 2 people and a 1 year old) lean grass-fed beef mince and 2 tins of organic tomatoes (feel good after it). It's the only time I eat wheat during the week, when I have 100g organic pasta. I also make a beef stew with potatoes and parsley.

Also once a week, I eat around 100g grass-fed lamb's liver. Haven't started shellfish yet. [Separate topic: I have a 1 year old son who pretty much eats what I eat, except he has 200g chicken liver a week and drinks full-fat goat's milk. So I am avoiding shellfish as I am still wary of toxicity and the quality in the UK). I used to give my son Green Pasture's fermented cod liver oil with high vitamin butter oil blend every day. Now I have several bottles of it lying around. (The same thing user 'm3rk' wrote in October last year.) Maybe I'll do one of these meet and greets from him!]

The rest of the time, for dinner I eat:
- 100g white rice, cooked in homemade bone broth, or 500g potatoes (white or sweet) roasted in coconut oil.
- 150-200g lean grass-fed beef/lamb or chicken, or white fish, with coconut oil, perhaps with onions and garlic and a 'green' that my wife insists on (courgette, broccoli, lettuce etc).
- Perhaps 30g dark chocolate for dessert
- I have Haagen Dazs vanilla ice cream once a week, after one of my weights sessions.

2130 Pre-bed snack
- 500ml milk, 1 1/2% fat 2.05 cup
- Fruit (e.g. 250g watermelon)

Here is my CRON-O-meter breakdown:


What other questions should we ask?
Exercise! I walk for about an hour a day and do weights twice a week. I push myself hard on the main lifts (deadlifts, squats, press, chins) but don't go to failure. I am fully recovered before the next set. I drink sparkling water throughout the workout, which really helps (thanks, Cliff).

 

[Blossom]

Welcome dd99! I enjoyed your introduction and I'm happy you found Peat! I did paleo/primal too and I'm finding the changes I've made through implementing Peat inspired ideas healing in ways I never imagined possible. I'm very enthusiastic about all of the positive changes! See you around.

 

[dd99]

Thanks, Blossom!

 

[4peatssake]

to the forum dd99!

Your diet looks good. One thing I noticed is that your phosphorus to calcium ratio if off. You will want to adjust that to at least a 1:1 ratio or better yet get the calcium higher than phosphorus.

I would also suggest taking your carrot salad on its own and not with other food to maximize its healing power.

“The intestine is a potential source of reabsorbed estrogen, and a daily raw carrot (grated or shredded, with a little olive oil, vinegar, salt) helps to lower excess estrogen (and endotoxin produced by bacteria). While lowering estrogen, it is likely to lower cortisol and increase progesterone.”

I'm not knowledgeable about your issues with the red dots but have you considered pregnenolone and/or progesterone to deal with the estrogen dominance? haidut has a supplement called Stress Non which is pregnenolone in Vitamin E and you can also buy pure powder online.

Forum member Dan Wich's site Toxin Less is a great resource for pure supplements.

Skim milk is fine. Ray drinks 1 per cent.

“When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories.”

“Yes, I know people who have lost weight just by eating a raw carrot every day, reducing endotoxin stress.”

The above quotes are from FPS: Ray Peat, PhD on the Benefits of Carrot Salad

 

[Mittir]

Welcome to the forum

Your iron intake seems quite high. if it is mostly non-heme iron then it is not
a big deal. But iron from red muscle meat is mostly heme, but liver is mostly
non-heme. Drinking coffee with liver will block absorption of non-heme iron.
If you donate blood regularly then you can get away with eating high iron foods.
Serum ferritin and Transferrin saturation index together give good idea about iron storage.

You may experiment with lower fluid diet by replacing some of the milk
with cheese or strained yogurt to lower both fluid and tryptophan.
Need for fluid depends on internal metabolism, physical activity and
surrounding temperature. Eating muscle meat and gelatin in same meal
is beneficial as amino acids enter the blood in a better ratio.
Pectin in OJ can be problematic for some people.
You can try other low pectin fruit juice to see if it makes any difference.
Tryptophan in milk is balanced by the calcium .
Though your current calcium to phosphorus ratio is within a healthy range
you can experiment with a higher calcium intake compared to phosphorus
to see how body reacts to that. I think PTH with blood calcium test are
very helpful in gauging if calcium, phosphorus, vitamin D level etc are
in right proportion. Eating fructose/sucrose in phosphorus rich meal
lowers phosphorus absorption. Niacinamide also lowers phosphorus.
Measuring your temperature and pulse 1-2 hours after breakfast give
good idea about metabolism. Total cholesterol, total T3 and T4,
TSH, prolactin,lactate, CO2, FFA, sodium, albumin, total serotonin are useful test.
Edit: Vitamin A,D and K play role in lowering PTH. Vitamin D is very important
in absorption of calcium. Knowing vitamin D level is helpful.

 

[j.]

Does calcium block absorption of heme iron? Does anything?

 

[Mittir]

Does calcium block absorption of heme iron? Does anything?

Some studies claim calcium blocks both heme and non heme iron.
But there are other studies that did not find this happening.
But, many of these studies were short term and they only measured
serum Ferritin. It should have been both ferritin and saturation index.
It seems very unlikely that people's iron storage
would change so quickly over partial inhibition of iron.
I think studies showing calcium blocking iron absorption were
more convincing.

 

[mamaherrera]

carrot

With carrot, I eat it on it's own, but how long after eating the carrot should you wait to eat again?? If we're supposed to eat frequently, and I wait two hours after eating for my carrot, I don't want to wait another two hours after the carrot to eat again?????

to the forum dd99!

Your diet looks good. One thing I noticed is that your phosphorus to calcium ratio if off. You will want to adjust that to at least a 1:1 ratio or better yet get the calcium higher than phosphorus.

I would also suggest taking your carrot salad on its own and not with other food to maximize its healing power.

“The intestine is a potential source of reabsorbed estrogen, and a daily raw carrot (grated or shredded, with a little olive oil, vinegar, salt) helps to lower excess estrogen (and endotoxin produced by bacteria). While lowering estrogen, it is likely to lower cortisol and increase progesterone.”

I'm not knowledgeable about your issues with the red dots but have you considered pregnenolone and/or progesterone to deal with the estrogen dominance? haidut has a supplement called Stress Non which is pregnenolone in Vitamin E and you can also buy pure powder online.

Forum member Dan Wich's site Toxin Less is a great resource for pure supplements.

Skim milk is fine. Ray drinks 1 per cent.

“When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories.”

“Yes, I know people who have lost weight just by eating a raw carrot every day, reducing endotoxin stress.”

The above quotes are from FPS: Ray Peat, PhD on the Benefits of Carrot Salad

 

[4peatssake]

Re: carrot

With carrot, I eat it on it's own, but how long after eating the carrot should you wait to eat again?? If we're supposed to eat frequently, and I wait two hours after eating for my carrot, I don't want to wait another two hours after the carrot to eat again?????

Well the idea is to use it as a cleansing, particularly for those with gut issues. Taking it away from other foods allows it to do the job effectively.

“It takes a few days for the intestine to adjust to raw carrot, but the indigestible fiber is very protective for the intestine. Boiled bamboo shoots, which are also mostly indigestible, have a similar effect. These fibers prevent the reabsorption of estrogen in the intestine, and can shift the balance away from cortisol and estrogen, toward progesterone and thyroid, in just a few days of regular use. Oatmeal and potatoes do provide fiber, but they are good food for bacteria, and bacterial endotoxin is usually the basic problem causing hormone imbalance, by being a chronic burden for the liver, keeping it from storing enough sugar to process thyroid and the other hormones effectively.”

I think it's possible to eat a good meal/snack before and after the carrot salad and stay satisfied and in balance. If not, however, I wouldn't stress about it and simply do my best.

Hope that helps.

 

[mamaherrera]

yes because my struggle is to get enough calories in. . . . so to try and give Mr. carrot his hours on both ends, leaves me lacking calories! but I do need his cleansing effects!

 

[dd99]

welcome2 to the forum dd99!

Thanks!

I would also suggest taking your carrot salad on its own and not with other food to maximize its healing power.

Even bone broth? I like having some liquid to wash it down. I do love the carrot salad. My (non-Peating) wife caught a nasty bug the other day and I gave her carrot salad two days in a row to take to work - problem solved.

I'm not knowledgeable about your issues with the red dots but have you considered pregnenolone and/or progesterone to deal with the estrogen dominance? haidut has a supplement called Stress Non which is pregnenolone in Vitamin E and you can also buy pure powder online.

I ordered some StressNon at the same time as the EstroBan. Before using any other supplements (apart from A, D, E and K2), I'd like to get everything sorted with how I'm eating, so that I have a good base line. Or do you think I should go for it from the outset?

Skim milk is fine. Ray drinks 1 per cent.

The choice I have here in the UK is 1.5% (semi-skimmed) or 0.1% (skimmed) goat's milk. Would I be missing crucial nutrients if I drank the 0.1%?

Thanks for your help!

 

[dd99]

Welcome to the forum

Thanks, Mittir.

You may experiment with lower fluid diet by replacing some of the milk
with cheese or strained yogurt to lower both fluid and tryptophan.

Do you think the amount of fluid could be causing the ache/swollen sensation in my calves? Is yogurt okay? What about the lactic acid / glycogen issue?

Pectin in OJ can be problematic for some people.

How so? Could the pectin be the calf swelling sensation cause? Or the new bald spot developing in my eyebrow?

Measuring your temperature and pulse 1-2 hours after breakfast give
good idea about metabolism.

I have been taking my temperature and pulse according to Rob Turner's article: morning, 40 minutes after breakfast, then between 1pm and 3pm. My temperature generally starts out at 35.9 or 36.0C, then rises to 36.4 or 36.5C in the afternoon. My pulse starts at 65-70 and rises to 70-80 in the afternoon. So, my metabolism is on the slow side, but I remember a few months ago when I was still intermittent fasting my waking temperature was 35.4C and pulse was around 50 (but that was just one observation).

Thanks for all your other advice - very helpful.

 

[Mittir]

Do you think the amount of fluid could be causing the ache/swollen sensation in my calves? Is yogurt okay? What about the lactic acid / glycogen issue?

Excess fluid can be a problem for hypothyroid person. Thirst is the best guide.
Extra salt with fluid can improve that condition. People with healthy thyroid
lose about 2 quart of water through skin and lungs where hypothyroid person
loses about a quart. A healthy person should be able to drink the amount of water
that is closely equal to 2 quart plus the water lost in urine.

There is very little lactic acid in strained yogurt. RP does not think large amount of
lactic acid is ok. You can also try homemade farmer's cheese instead of strained yogurt.
You just add lemon juice/vinegar to warm milk to get milk curd.
It is mostly protein and most of the calcium is lost.

Could the pectin be the calf swelling sensation cause? Or the new bald spot developing in my eyebrow?

Pectin feeds bacteria. Someone with bad bacterial composition will have extra
endotoxin and gut irritation from eating soluble fiber like pectin.
RP recommends strained OJ to remove pectin. But it does not totally remove that.
Sweet ripe oranges are also low in pectin. If you remove pectin rich foods for few days
you will be able to tell if it makes any difference or not.

I have been taking my temperature and pulse according to Rob Turner's article: morning, 40 minutes after breakfast, then between 1pm and 3pm. My temperature generally starts out at 35.9 or 36.0C, then rises to 36.4 or 36.5C in the afternoon. My pulse starts at 65-70 and rises to 70-80 in the afternoon. So, my metabolism is on the slow side, but I remember a few months ago when I was still intermittent fasting my waking temperature was 35.4C and pulse was around 50 (but that was just one observation).
Thanks for all your other advice - very helpful.

I think 40 minute is too early. Your afternoon temperature is normal and increasing temperature from morning to afternoon is a is a good. You can measure your temp and pulse
before breakfast and see how it changes with breakfast. Most people are bit hypothyroid in the morning. Filling up glycogen storage before going to bed can improve sleep quality
and morning temp and pulse. Weakening of calf muscle is a sign of hypothyroidism.
You will probably feel better with improved thyroid function. Hypothyroid people have
problem retaining minerals like sodium and magnesium.Increased intake of sodium
,magensium and other alkaline minerals can help with it.

 

[dd99]

Excess fluid can be a problem for hypothyroid person. Thirst is the best guide.
Extra salt with fluid can improve that condition. People with healthy thyroid
lose about 2 quart of water through skin and lungs where hypothyroid person
loses about a quart. A healthy person should be able to drink the amount of water
that is closely equal to 2 quart plus the water lost in urine.

Hypothyroid people have problem retaining minerals like sodium and magnesium.
Increased intake of sodium, magensium and other alkaline minerals can help with it.

Thanks, that's very helpful. I'll put salt in my liquids and take a magnesium supplement and see how it goes.

Could the pectin be the calf swelling sensation cause? Or the new bald spot developing in my eyebrow?

Pectin feeds bacteria. Someone with bad bacterial composition will have extra
endotoxin and gut irritation from eating soluble fiber like pectin.
RP recommends strained OJ to remove pectin. But it does not totally remove that.
Sweet ripe oranges are also low in pectin. If you remove pectin rich foods for few days
you will be able to tell if it makes any difference or not.

The only fruits I've eaten in the past month are grapes, watermelon, papaya and citrus (mandarins and oranges), and I've only drunk strained OJ. Have I made a mistake with my fruit choices and inadvertently caused myself gut irritation from eating too much pectin? Watermelon and oranges are on the safe fruits list. Is it the grapes causing the irritation?

If I'm going to reduce starches, I need to find a fruit alternative. The safe fruits list has a lot of tropical fruits. Living in the UK, those are very overpriced. Does cooking reduce pectin? Because then I could stick to cooked apples and pears. (That's what I make for my son: steamed apples with coconut oil. He loves it.) Are nectarines, peaches, apricots and pineapple (which are low in pectin) safe to eat?

I think 40 minute is too early. Your afternoon temperature is normal and increasing temperature from morning to afternoon is a is a good. You can measure your temp and pulse
before breakfast and see how it changes with breakfast. Most people are bit hypothyroid in the morning. Filling up glycogen storage before going to bed can improve sleep quality
and morning temp and pulse.

Sorry, I meant I check my temp and pulse three times: in bed first thing in the morning, then 40 minutes after breakfast (when I remember, it could be an hour), then afternoon. I've been having fruit and milk before bed. Do you think plain OJ would be better?

 

[4peatssake]

Even bone broth? I like having some liquid to wash it down. I do love the carrot salad. My (non-Peating) wife caught a nasty bug the other day and I gave her carrot salad two days in a row to take to work - problem solved.

The recommendation is to eat it raw or in a salad with coconut oil and vinegar. Maybe try it both ways and see if you notice any effect?

“Since the fiber [CARROT] will delay digestion and reduce absorption of other foods, I think it’s best to eat it between meals, usually in the afternoon.”

“Yes, the plain carrot is good. For people who want more antimicrobial effect, the saturated fats and vinegar are helpful.”

“The intestine is a potential source of reabsorbed estrogen, and a daily raw carrot (grated or shredded, with a little olive oil, vinegar, salt) helps to lower excess estrogen (and endotoxin produced by bacteria). While lowering estrogen, it is likely to lower cortisol and increase progesterone.”

I ordered some StressNon at the same time as the EstroBan. Before using any other supplements (apart from A, D, E and K2), I'd like to get everything sorted with how I'm eating, so that I have a good base line. Or do you think I should go for it from the outset?

Getting your food sorted out first is great.

The choice I have here in the UK is 1.5% (semi-skimmed) or 0.1% (skimmed) goat's milk. Would I be missing crucial nutrients if I drank the 0.1%?

You can use cronometer to check if you are getting the appropriate nutrients. I would prefer the semi-skimmed myself. :P

Thanks for your help!

You're welcome!

 

[lazz]

to the forum dd99!

One thing I noticed is that your phosphorus to calcium ratio if off. You will want to adjust that to at least a 1:1 ratio or better yet get the calcium higher than phosphorus.



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In order to get calcium in , milk and cheeses are mainly calcium sources but they do contain a lot of phosphorus as well.... he is having milk )calcium) in almost every of his 5 meal and only one of them has read meat ..so even you follow just a milk and cheeses for protein only your phosphorus still gonna show high as hell.,,cant get around it.

 

[Such_Saturation]

yes because my struggle is to get enough calories in. . . . so to try and give Mr. carrot his hours on both ends, leaves me lacking calories! but I do need his cleansing effects!

Sucrose intake was not associated with any statistically significant decrease in the antibiotic power of carrots. That is relevant if we disregard the fact that sugar would not even make it to your colon. Really, trying to get the carrot by itself is no excuse to starve yourself. I can personally guarantee that when dealing with carrots it is much more important to remember to grate them. Believe it or not, when I just munch them the benefits on stool form tend to disappear. Adding some molten butter or olive oil is another step that I would not skip.

 

[mamaherrera]

really??? and I have not been grating them. That's a lot of work for a mom of three kids and a baby. Can we buy them grated anywhere??? Whoa!! But I had no idea it made that much of a difference. curious to try and see if it makes a difference, and with fat, huh??? wow. All new stuff for me!

 

[Such_Saturation]

It is personal experience, nothing else! This is why I know about it, because I also get lazy and just munch the carrot. My baseline is a mostly dense stool derived from the casein, so I really notice the increased smoothness and cleanliness when grating the carrot. This also reflects on my mood.

 

[j.]

I don't grate them and still get its great benefits.