Hello Peat People

[PhilParma]

There's a million different subforums here and I don't know which is the correct one to post in. Is it alright if I just post my topic here?

I spend a lot of time reading about nutrition online. It seems like whenever I do a search on a topic, Google spits at least one Ray Peat-based result back at me. So I finally clicked on one of them and started reading. I've spent the last week reading almost nothing but Ray Peat stuff--and I've fallen back in love with fructose, after being scared away from it by the Paleo/Primal folks. Grapes are tasty as hell, aren't they?

However, I have a few barriers to becoming a full-on Peatarian:

1) Milk and acne. Years ago I quit drinking milk, and my horrible acne disappeared, never to appear again. I'm deathly afraid of going back to milk and risking even a single week of the type of acne I used to experience. Can one "eat Peat" without milk?

2) Fish oil is the devil. Except it's not, for me. Out of all the dozens of supplements I've (regrettably) tried over the years, the only one I've ever noticed a positive effect from has been fish oil. It has cleared up my persistent issues with dry eye and seborrheic dermatitis. I really don't want to cut out fish oil and go back to my days of crusty-**** eyes and red flaky skin. I supplement with 8g of fish oil per day. (I know, it's bad.) Could that be okay if I take in two servings of coconut oil per day? 24g of saturated fat vs. 8g of fish oil?

3) Sufficient protein intake. As I said, I don't drink milk, and eat minimal dairy in general. Plus it seems like every common source of protein in the SADiet in high in tryptophan. And every brand of protein powder I've tried has instantly killed my libido. (I don't know why, but I'm pretty sure it's happening.) I'm tall and naturally skinny. I feel like I need 150g of protein daily in order to keep any kind of muscle on. How can I do that? I've read that gelatin, by itself, isn't very good for building muscle.

And lastly, I don't have a libido. I'm 26, male, lowish body fat. I've pretty much given up on it. Maybe super-loading carbs/sugar will help bring my libido back, but I've basically given up on it at this point.

Anyone want to talk about any of that?

 

[squanch]

1) Milk and acne. Years ago I quit drinking milk, and my horrible acne disappeared, never to appear again. I'm deathly afraid of going back to milk and risking even a single week of the type of acne I used to experience. Can one "eat Peat" without milk?

I've had the same issues in the past. What worked for me:
Daily small amounts of liver for the vit a (preferably turkey because of the lower copper) + 1 oyster for the zinc
Supplemental b6 (p5p) and magnesium bicarbonate water.

When it comes to acne, goat dairy seems to be better than cow dairy, cheese seems to be better than milk and raw better than pasteurized/homogenized (at least for me)

2) Fish oil is the devil. Except it's not, for me. Out of all the dozens of supplements I've (regrettably) tried over the years, the only one I've ever noticed a positive effect from has been fish oil. It has cleared up my persistent issues with dry eye and seborrheic dermatitis.

That's because you are probably deficient in zinc and vit a, which is also part of the reason why you can't tolerate milk without getting acne. The fish oil acts as an immunosuppressant and lowers your requirement for different nutrients by lowering metabolic rate.

 

[PhilParma]

I've had the same issues in the past. What worked for me:
Daily small amounts of liver for the vit a (preferably turkey because of the lower copper) + 1 oyster for the zinc
Supplemental b6 (p5p) and magnesium bicarbonate water.

When it comes to acne, goat dairy seems to be better than cow dairy, cheese seems to be better than milk and raw better than pasteurized/homogenized (at least for me)

Oh God, I've never eaten liver in my life. Kind of freaks me out. Can I just do carrots for VitA? I think I saw that Ray Peat eats a carrot a day.

I take B6, magnesium, and zinc, all supplementally. Is getting zinc via oysters necessary?

I think VitA might be the acne key. I think I'll try implementing high protein cheeses and sufficient dietary VitA. If acne doesn't come back, then I'll try VitA and... the dreaded MILK.

That's because you are probably deficient in zinc and vit a, which is also part of the reason why you can't tolerate milk without getting acne. The fish oil acts as an immunosuppressant and lowers your requirement for different nutrients by lowering metabolic rate.

Sounds like I might have a VitA problem...

Thanks for your response.

 

[squanch]

The vit a in carrots is beta carotene, you want retinol from animal sources. You could still try the raw carrot for it's anti bacterial properties, it's just not a vit a source.

Just do the liver, nothing else comes even close to the vit a content. Turkey and calf are both good options and have a relatively mild taste.
10-20g per day is enough.

Zinc from oysters works a lot better for me personally than supplemental zinc. I would give it a try if you have access to oysters.

 

[PhilParma]

Well I don't know the first thing about liver--looks like I have some reading to do.

 

[Giraffe]

PhilParma!

post 101522 Oh God, I've never eaten liver in my life. Kind of freaks me out.

If you don't like the taste of liver, you can make a pâté.

post 101529 Zinc from oysters works a lot better for me personally than supplemental zinc. I would give it a try if you have access to oysters.

Skally, where do you get your oysters from?

 

[Sea]

post 101512 There's a million different subforums here and I don't know which is the correct one to post in. Is it alright if I just post my topic here?

I spend a lot of time reading about nutrition online. It seems like whenever I do a search on a topic, Google spits at least one Ray Peat-based result back at me. So I finally clicked on one of them and started reading. I've spent the last week reading almost nothing but Ray Peat stuff--and I've fallen back in love with fructose, after being scared away from it by the Paleo/Primal folks. Grapes are tasty as hell, aren't they?

However, I have a few barriers to becoming a full-on Peatarian:

1) Milk and acne. Years ago I quit drinking milk, and my horrible acne disappeared, never to appear again. I'm deathly afraid of going back to milk and risking even a single week of the type of acne I used to experience. Can one "eat Peat" without milk?

2) Fish oil is the devil. Except it's not, for me. Out of all the dozens of supplements I've (regrettably) tried over the years, the only one I've ever noticed a positive effect from has been fish oil. It has cleared up my persistent issues with dry eye and seborrheic dermatitis. I really don't want to cut out fish oil and go back to my days of crusty-**** eyes and red flaky skin. I supplement with 8g of fish oil per day. (I know, it's bad.) Could that be okay if I take in two servings of coconut oil per day? 24g of saturated fat vs. 8g of fish oil?

3) Sufficient protein intake. As I said, I don't drink milk, and eat minimal dairy in general. Plus it seems like every common source of protein in the SADiet in high in tryptophan. And every brand of protein powder I've tried has instantly killed my libido. (I don't know why, but I'm pretty sure it's happening.) I'm tall and naturally skinny. I feel like I need 150g of protein daily in order to keep any kind of muscle on. How can I do that? I've read that gelatin, by itself, isn't very good for building muscle.

And lastly, I don't have a libido. I'm 26, male, lowish body fat. I've pretty much given up on it. Maybe super-loading carbs/sugar will help bring my libido back, but I've basically given up on it at this point.

Anyone want to talk about any of that?

1. Peat is not a specific diet. Everybody has a different level of digestive capability based on their current metabolic health. The foods Ray Peat recommends are based on the type of foods available to humans which can meet human nutrient requirements with the least amount of toxins. A lot of these foods are very difficult to digest, or have high water contents, both of which make a lot of these foods problematic to consume if you have a damaged metabolism. Ray Peat recommends to track your responses to what you eat based on your temperature and pulse rate. If consuming milk gives you acne then it is probably lowering your temperature and pulse rate after consumption, where an easier to digest food like greek yogurt might raise your temperature after eating. Too much orange juice might lower your temperature, while a denser food like honey might raise your temperature. Once you raise your temperature and pulse rate high enough then you won't have any problem adding milk to your diet eventually.

2. "In experiments that last just a few weeks or months, there may not be time for cancers to develop, and on that time scale, the immunosuppressive and antiinflammatory effects of oxidized fish oil might seem beneficial." -Ray Peat

You can read Ray Peat's article explaining the dangers of fish oil here: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml

No one needs to eat 8 grams of fish oil to not have dry skin. That's not normal. Have you let a fish oil capsule dissolve in your mouth? If a food makes you want to gag and puke it is a good clue not to eat it. Dry skin and other skin problems are just caused by the metabolism slowing down. Notice how old people have bad skin and younger people have good looking skin. It is all based on how fast your metabolism is. I think you would have much better skin if you tried to really eliminate unsaturated fats from your diet and other fats besides coconut oil so that your liver can have some time to repair. Bacteria also play a large roll in skin quality because when the metabolism slows down, they eat more of your food, and they produce toxins which screw up your metabolism. A lot of Ray Peat's dietary recommendations are designed to limit food for any bacteria, and reduce the toxins that they make. Increasing your metabolism/body temperature helps to naturally kill off those bacteria, and you can get a jump start with antibiotics if you can handle the die off.

3. For protien try some fat free greek yogurt or cottage cheese. Those can be a lot easier to digest than regular dairy. You don't have to eliminate muscle meats or lower quality proteins, just don't eat all your protien as chicken. Try incorporating more sea food into your diet. If a protien powder killed your libido it was probably not digested well. Gelatin is fine as long as it isn't your only source of protien, it will combine with other proteins you eat. But, if you can't digest milk well I think you might have trouble with gelatin powders. Eating jello or a heated/boiled gelatin might be easier than a powder. I think your libido is 100% related to what you are eating. Many of the supplements advised here like aspirin, vitamin a, thyroid hormone, pregnenolone and others can increase your libido quite rapidly. Sugars are also needed to make cholesterol which then converts into the various hormones so if you haven't been eating a lot of carbs that could destroy your libido.

 

[squanch]

Skally, where do you get your oysters from?

I buy live oysters from the fishmonger. It's 1.50€ per oyster where I live.

 

[Giraffe]

post 101545 I buy live oysters from the fishmonger. It's 1.50€ per oyster where I live.

Oh, lucky you. No fish monger close to where I live. I have only seen them frozen in an Asia market, but with the luck I have I would probably need to defrost the whole bag at once... and I bet that I am not brave enough to eat them all.

 

[squanch]

Oh, lucky you. No fish monger close to where I live. I have only seen them frozen in an Asia market, but with the luck I have I would probably need to defrost the whole bag at once... and I bet that I am not brave enough to eat them all.

Is it like one large frozen chunk of oyster? You could probably brake them off individually with a strong knife. Maybe hit it with a hammer

 

[Giraffe]

Is it like one large frozen chunk of oyster?

Yes.

You could probably brake them off individually with a strong knife. Maybe hit it with a hammer

Jackhammer!

 

[PhilParma]

You can read Ray Peat's article explaining the dangers of fish oil here: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml

I haven't read any of Peat's articles on fish oil because then I'm afraid I'll be convinced to stop taking fish oil and then my problems will come back. I'm willing to accept that it's just covering up an underlying problem, but it's so daunting to have to give up on something that seems like a solution, and be left with nothing but "I have to increase my metabolism", which I'm not sure I'll be able to do, or how long it will take. It's just so scary.

3. ... I think your libido is 100% related to what you are eating. Many of the supplements advised here like aspirin, vitamin a, thyroid hormone, pregnenolone and others can increase your libido quite rapidly. Sugars are also needed to make cholesterol which then converts into the various hormones so if you haven't been eating a lot of carbs that could destroy your libido.

I know absolutely nothing about those thyroid supplements. I have to read up on those as well.

I've been eating moderately low-carb for awhile. I've now been high-carb/high-sugar for about a week. I don't see any reason to go back to low-carb at any point in the future. It never seemed to do anything special for me, I just assumed that it was healthy. I used to be big on olive oil, but now I'm shifting to coconut oil.

Thank you for addressing each of my points specifically. That was kind of you. I have a lot to think/read about.

 

[Joocy_J]

post 101512 And lastly, I don't have a libido. I'm 26, male, lowish body fat. I've pretty much given up on it. Maybe super-loading carbs/sugar will help bring my libido back, but I've basically given up on it at this point.

What have you tried for this issue? thanks

 

[PhilParma]

post 101570

post 101512 And lastly, I don't have a libido. I'm 26, male, lowish body fat. I've pretty much given up on it. Maybe super-loading carbs/sugar will help bring my libido back, but I've basically given up on it at this point.

What have you tried for this issue? thanks

High-fat diet, high-protein diet, high calorie, lifting, cardio, zinc, B6, VitD (I do get sunlight as well), plenty of other stupid vitamins/supplements that I won't be able to remember, no porn, no masturbation.

I was horny as a hound dog three summers ago. It was awesome. But it's been slowly downhill since then. At the time, I chalked up my high libido to the olive oil I was slugging to help gain weight. But in the past year I've experimented with every kind of ultra-high-fat diet, and it no longer makes any difference. I think I might have abused olive oil and hurt my metabolism, or whatever negative impact olive oil has according to Peat. Is it pro-estrogen?

 

[PhilParma]

Since eating more Peaty, I've been waking up tired, and I feel like I require more sleep. The main change in my diet has been a huge increase in sugar. Maybe my liver can't handle it and it's causing stress?

 

[Nicholas]

post 103693 Since eating more Peaty, I've been waking up tired, and I feel like I require more sleep. The main change in my diet has been a huge increase in sugar. Maybe my liver can't handle it and it's causing stress?

probably. eating copious amounts of sugar is not something Peat recommends. But he also doesn't say you shouldn't. I also have to hover around 150g of protein a day to thrive. I just make sure it's not all tyrptophan-heavy....and i make sure to balance the aminos/nutrients well. some people may need higher amounts of protein in relation to their body needing extra liver support.....to which, in time, this need may decrease.

 

[Blossom]

post 103693 Since eating more Peaty, I've been waking up tired, and I feel like I require more sleep. The main change in my diet has been a huge increase in sugar. Maybe my liver can't handle it and it's causing stress?

Additionally there might be a reduction in stress hormones from eating more sugar. Many of us coming from a paleo background experience this initially until our thyroid function improves.

 

[Nicholas]

post 103696

post 103693 Since eating more Peaty, I've been waking up tired, and I feel like I require more sleep. The main change in my diet has been a huge increase in sugar. Maybe my liver can't handle it and it's causing stress?

Additionally there might be a reduction in stress hormones from eating more sugar. Many of us coming from a paleo background experience this initially until our thyroid function improves.

amen! the key phrase is "more sugar". That is actually physiologically accurate and therefore more Peaty to think in terms of ratio. i came from a paleo background that went awry.....which is really just to say that, for me, the paleo ratio was not right. (plus copious amounts of tryptophan/iron). in my experience, health problems and confusion arise when i begin to isolate macronutrients.

 

[Giraffe]

Phil, take it slow with changes in your diet. Avoid PUFAs as good as you can, but with other changes it is better to give your body time to adapt. I don't know what your main source of sugar is. Some fruits are easier to digest than others. Table sugar doesn't provide the minerals you need.

As to proteins... You can try to introduce small amounts of gelatin to your diet. Get some Knox gelatin and prepare small batches of jello. Start with something like 5 g gelatin.

Acne and vitamin A seems a tricky thing. Too much vitamin A suppresses the thyroid, too little and sensitive people are prone to acne. I would try to get plenty of daylight or get some full spectrum incandescent bulbs for light therapy.

Don't worry about your libido. It will come back when your metabolism increases. The forum is full of stories about simple things that made a huge difference.

 

[PhilParma]

post 103693 Since eating more Peaty, I've been waking up tired, and I feel like I require more sleep. The main change in my diet has been a huge increase in sugar. Maybe my liver can't handle it and it's causing stress?

Additionally there might be a reduction in stress hormones from eating more sugar. Many of us coming from a paleo background experience this initially until our thyroid function improves.

So, perhaps the increased sugar has actually reduced stressed hormones, but hasn't yet improved my thyroid function? Is it just a waiting game on that front, or should I start thinking about NDThyroid?

isolate macronutrients.

What do you mean by that?

Phil, take it slow with changes in your diet. Avoid PUFAs

I've stopped fish oil altogether. My dermatitis is slowly coming back, and my eyes are dry and puffy. I guess I have to figure out some way to defeat these problems without PUFAs...

I don't know what your main source of sugar is.

Mainly grapes and orange juice, in addition to some other fruit juices. I felt the worst while I was eating dried fruits, mainly cranberries. I won't be doing that anymore.

Acne and vitamin A seems a tricky thing. Too much vitamin A suppresses the thyroid, too little and sensitive people are prone to acne.

Acne isn't currently a problem because I haven't yet attempted to introduce any significant amount of dairy. I don't think I'll ever go back to drinking milk, but one of these days I'm going to try and introduce cottage cheese for protein. I haven't tried liver yet either, but I'm getting 5000IU of VitA from Haidut's Estroban supplement. Estroban and Zinc are the only supplements I'm taking, and I'm not going to be rebuying the zinc once I run out.

Don't worry about your libido. It will come back when your metabolism increases. The forum is full of stories about simple things that made a huge difference.

I'm trying not to worry about it, but it's tough. Sometimes it's all I can think about. Life can get real boring without libido.