Health Natura Selling Fish Oil?

[Anonymous]

This guy has a ray peat section on his site and now he's selling fish oil?

 

[Such_Saturation]

Yup

 

[Blossom]

It's probably consumer demand. Is it in the Peat section?

 

[ypgogibk]

you are not the Tin Man from the Wizard of Oz

you don't need fish oil

 

[healthnatura]

I know this is a relatively old thread but I thought I would respond and let you know why I'm selling fish oil. Please also be aware that I'm not advocating fish oil as part of any Ray Peat protocol or that I'm a specialist in the clinical aspects of the Ray Peat philosophy.

This is a forum for your opinions and questions, it isn't my place to tell you my opinion on what to use, or not, but to listen to you and answer your product needs as safely and as best I can. My role here is not to be your doctor but to be your resource. Just please keep in mind your community is not the only market I serve. This is necessary to maintain sustainability in any one niche market, yours included.

Here are some of the finer points just for clarity.

1) I'm in the business of specialized, hard to find and custom products wholesale and retail. Sourcing and manufacturing are both a part of the business structure.
2) Only about 15% of our capacity and product offering is on the healthnatura.com website.
3) I serve a wide customer base, one of which is the Ray Peat community.
4) While my opinion about fish oil is officially neutral it isn't my place to dictate to my customers but to fill a market need by providing exceptional products. If I don't fill it someone else will with an inferior product.
5) Wholesale customers in product development do get my opinions and guidance during the development process.
6) While I don't publicly advertise my opinions on fish oils there is a reason they are not a core product in the company.

 

[Makrosky]

Sad to see healthnatura having to justify himself for just running a supplement businness with a wide market niche.

This is as stupid as blaming amazon for selling aspirin powder and fish oil.

I don't care what non-peat-friendly supplements you sell as long as they're top quality.

Can't wait to see the new Peat supps.

Thumbs up for healthnatura.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think people just get confused because they see the pregnenolone, vitamin E, etc.

 

[Drareg]

He explains that here
Health natura selling fish oil?

"Salmon Plus fish oil 500mg 60 softgels has a balanced EPA & DHA fatty acid (50mg each per cap) and is a natural source of vitamin D3. Salmon Plus is an economical option for those wishing to combine fish oil with krill oil in their wellness program."

He is selling a toxic substance claiming to be neutral and calling himself a Doctor,it's a mishmash of confusion and contradiction.

The quote I added above doesn't sound like someone who is neutral.

I don't see the need to have Ray Peats name on the site while he is selling a substance that Peat currently believes to be toxic.

Imo.

 

[Drareg]

I know this is a relatively old thread but I thought I would respond and let you know why I'm selling fish oil. Please also be aware that I'm not advocating fish oil as part of any Ray Peat protocol or that I'm a specialist in the clinical aspects of the Ray Peat philosophy.

This is a forum for your opinions and questions, it isn't my place to tell you my opinion on what to use, or not, but to listen to you and answer your product needs as safely and as best I can. My role here is not to be your doctor but to be your resource. Just please keep in mind your community is not the only market I serve. This is necessary to maintain sustainability in any one niche market, yours included.

Here are some of the finer points just for clarity.

1) I'm in the business of specialized, hard to find and custom products wholesale and retail. Sourcing and manufacturing are both a part of the business structure.
2) Only about 15% of our capacity and product offering is on the healthnatura.com website.
3) I serve a wide customer base, one of which is the Ray Peat community.
4) While my opinion about fish oil is officially neutral it isn't my place to dictate to my customers but to fill a market need by providing exceptional products. If I don't fill it someone else will with an inferior product.
5) Wholesale customers in product development do get my opinions and guidance during the development process.
6) While I don't publicly advertise my opinions on fish oils there is a reason they are not a core product in the company.

You contradict yourself with point 4 and 6.
If your stance on fish oil is officially neutral which is strange considering you know of Ray Peats work,Why say there is a reason fish oils are not your core product with a wink?
You know they are bad for people this implies imo.

On point 4 I'm not sure you can provide an inferior form of toxin? Perhaps you can clarify, the poison you sell is exceptional and somebody else is poisoning with inferior poison,the difference here is many are not aware they are toxic, you know.

Overall you try to allude to being neutral and filling a market need is what you do,yet your actions clearly are not neutral, why would we trust you when you seem adamant people are market? You don't seem to use the term market lightly.

 

[superhuman]

@Drareg come one. Why bother, he can sell whatever he wants and you have no business in telling whats poison or not. Be happy you can buy quality products you want and dont buy things you dont want. To complain about what health should have in his store based on some RP philosophy is just lame. Nobody has the right to decide what other people should buy or consume. Provide good information and make people choose themselves what to do.

 

[Blossom]

I don't see the need to have Ray Peats name on the site while he is selling a substance that Peat currently believes to be toxic.

HealthNatura is a vendor and is just responding to consumer demand. He had an established business long before many of us Peaters started buying things like pregnenolone and niacinamide from his site.
I'm grateful that he created a separate Peat section to his online store and I appreciate the many products he has added that I would have previously had to buy from numerous other vendors and pay separate shipping. I think it's convenient and a win-win for all of us actually. No one is obligated to purchase anything from him though if the fact that he supplies fish oil for people who want it bothers them.

He has never claimed to be a Peat authority and has made it clear numerous times that his goal is just to provide us with high quality products. Although he is a naturopath by training he no longer practices clinically and doesn't offer advice here on the forum but just tries to supply us with the products we request.

 

[Drareg]

HealthNatura is a vendor and is just responding to consumer demand. He had an established business long before many of us Peaters started buying things like pregnenolone and niacinamide from his site.
I'm grateful that he created a separate Peat section to his online store and I appreciate the many products he has added that I would have previously had to buy from numerous other vendors and pay separate shipping. I think it's convenient and a win-win for all of us actually. No one is obligated to purchase anything from him though if the fact that he supplies fish oil for people who want it bothers them.

He has never claimed to be a Peat authority and has made it clear numerous times that his goal is just to provide us with high quality products. Although he is a naturopath by training he no longer practices clinically and doesn't offer advice here on the forum but just tries to supply us with the products we request.

Unfortunately it's not a win win for those buying fish oils from him and he knows they are toxic,just responding to customer demand is a terrible apology, we could apply the same excuse to big pharma,big government,big corporate food producers,big heroin dealer etc.

Im not trying to be the "Peat Police" but health natura does not need to use Peats name for a section of supplies,it's not like its vast amount of Peat recommended substances, he is using Peats name as a marketing tool on the front page of his website that promotes fish oils.

Don't forget Peats quote on treating people as" the market"... Pertinent Imo.

 

[ravster02]

Unfortunately it's not a win win for those buying fish oils from him and he knows they are toxic,just responding to customer demand is a terrible apology, we could apply the same excuse to big pharma,big government,big corporate food producers,big heroin dealer etc.

Im not trying to be the "Peat Police" but health natura does not need to use Peats name for a section of supplies,it's not like its vast amount of Peat recommended substances, he is using Peats name as a marketing tool on the front page of his website that promotes fish oils.

Don't forget Peats quote on treating people as" the market"... Pertinent Imo.

watch out guys, it's the peat police over here.

 

[Drareg]

@Drareg come one. Why bother, he can sell whatever he wants and you have no business in telling whats poison or not. Be happy you can buy quality products you want and dont buy things you dont want. To complain about what health should have in his store based on some RP philosophy is just lame. Nobody has the right to decide what other people should buy or consume. Provide good information and make people choose themselves what to do.

I'm highlighting an obvious contradiction. The op started this thread for said reason. It's a question of trust in the supplier.

I'm not trying to decide what people should buy or consume,this your strawman.
I am providing good information as the op is and allowing people choose for themselves yet you start your post with "come on,why bother,he can sell whatever he wants and you have no business in telling what's poison or not." You can see what you did there,right?

It's a Ray Peat forum with health natura in a vendor section promoting his products, he uses Ray Peats name on his website while selling a toxic substance Ray Peat is not promoting therefore it's not lame.

It's not exactly "some Ray Peat philosophy" the fish oil articles he provided us with it.

Sure he can sell what he wants ,with that attitude you would be great alongside big pharma and the current majority in medicine.

 

[Blossom]

I purchased pregnenolone from him before he had a separate Peat section. I originally learned he carried it through @Dan Wich's toxinless site. I'm pretty certain the addition of the Peat category came once he had multiple products and it was the most sensible way to help people find what they were looking for easily.

 

[Drareg]

I purchased pregnenolone from him before he had a separate Peat section. I originally learned he carried it through @Dan Wich's toxinless site. I'm pretty certain the addition of the Peat category came once he had multiple products and it was the most sensible way to help people find what they were looking for easily.

Considering his passion for providing the market what they want and the limited amount of RP recommended substance he has I will be cynical and say he is using Peats name to market.

He has a great system going, flood the market with fish oils ,ruin people's health and then when they are sick they can come back to the Ray Peat supplies section and get well again.
Kind of covers you conscience too.

 

[healthnatura]

OK, wow this has become a pretty passionate conversation and I appreciate, and respect that. First, let me repeat, that I am not a Ray Peat practitioner, nor versed in his work and do not claim in any way that I am. I only offer what I know, within my scope, and within the scope of this forum. It is not my place to contradict, condone, or promote Ray's teachings within this forum. Nor is my place, to force my values on you, or intentionally start arguments in any way. I will not however, restrict the very wide scope of my business to fit the values of only one segment of my business. To judge me, based on your opinion of a product, is your prerogative. It is also your prerogative to judge me for being measured with my responses. I'm a measured, intentional man and speak intentionally. I would like to ask you this... if you wanted a fish oil, and most of you don't, I get that, do you want one that is the best possible within that category of product? My description and observations of any one product is an option, about that product, intended for those who are already looking for that product. I'm just offering the best possible product, within that category, for those who have asked for it. Perhaps you don't benefit from, or want, fish oil, but you do want and appreciate the other work I have done for products you do want. My opinion of what you should, or should not take/do is not my place here in this forum. My specialty is in chemistry, analysis, and compounding, which gives me a unique ability to assess raw materials. I'm a sourcing, and analysis company, not an exclusive Ray Peat company, selling exclusively to Ray Peat followers. Only a very small portion of my resources are available online at healthnatura.com and are offered there by request. To make these products available in small quantities, under 50 kg-1000+ kg, there has to be a sufficient number of requests to make it worthwhile. By definition, this is what a market is, a group of people asking for a specific product and I didn't intend to be offensive. For example, I carry monolaurin, whether Ray Peat promotes it or not, it not relevant to my business because I serve more people and companies than those in your community. Monolaurin has been in my stock for 18 years, and I don't intend to remove it from my inventory because one segment of my customer base doesn't agree with it as a product. I sell monolaurin by the individual bag, lots of 100-2000 bags, and by the metric ton to a customer base that want's that product, and has hired me to assess and provide the best possible version of it available on the global market. Some of these products you benefit from and some you do not. This is true for fish oil, I was hired by several doctors to find the best possible fish oil product that fit and exceeded their requirements. I also had sufficient requests to offer them online, so I did. How you feel about those doctors, or people who desire fish oil, is irrelevant as they will be using fish oil one way or the other because they believe differently than you. As has been insinuated above I do not participate in making folks sick to create a new customer base. Nor am I in a position to "flood" the market, I leave that to Walmart and GNC. I have created a business that is not in a position to debate or dictate to my customer base what I believe to be best practices when it relates to wellness/health care philosophy. Best practices for my business, is to assess, source, and in some cases manufacture, hard to find, high end products. Less than 10% of my resources are listed on healthnatura.com for retail sales. For example, I sell over 250 essential oils that I have a direct farm to warehouse relationship with. They are not listed on the website because I only deal in pail and drum sizes and the only small unit sizes I sell (15ml-90ml) go out in lots of 100+.

I'm here to serve you, because I'm uniquely placed in the industry to do so. I have quietly served this community for at least a decade without intruding on this forum in any way for my personal gain. My presence on this forum is a recent development and is by invitation. That invitation was conditional, so long as I offered opportunities to give away products. The frequency and visibility of those giveaways are dictated by the Admin of this forum, not me. I have used my presence to ask and listen to your requests and needs, and if possible, fill those needs. In an effort to avoid confusion, and clearly communicate which of these are related to this community, I created the Ray Peat Supplies section. Should Ray Peat ask me to change how the heading is titled I will gladly edit it to his satisfaction.

There has been a huge demand for pure USP aspirin and caffeine. These are recent additions, and have thus far been restricted to manufacturers, pharmacies and physicians. I have hesitated in offering them to the public because I feel that they are easily overdosed, and potentially fatal in low doses. The reality however, is that there is a strong need. When I open these up to the public, in a month or two, I will be trusting in you to use them appropriately. They will be heavily labeled and beg you to be conservative in their use.

I'm sure that there will be those who will pick this post apart, but please, don't be accusational.

Be well,
Peter

 

[healthnatura]

You contradict yourself with point 4 and 6.
If your stance on fish oil is officially neutral which is strange considering you know of Ray Peats work,Why say there is a reason fish oils are not your core product with a wink?
You know they are bad for people this implies imo.

On point 4 I'm not sure you can provide an inferior form of toxin? Perhaps you can clarify, the poison you sell is exceptional and somebody else is poisoning with inferior poison,the difference here is many are not aware they are toxic, you know.

Overall you try to allude to being neutral and filling a market need is what you do,yet your actions clearly are not neutral, why would we trust you when you seem adamant people are market? You don't seem to use the term market lightly.

You believe fish oil is a toxin. That is fine. There are those who disagree with you. I strive to supply quality within a product that exceeds industry standards. I offer my findings relative to that product and don't prescribe or upsell the use of any one product to anyone. I do not, as a habit, offer any further opinion on usage, excepting for those who employ my services as a doctor, or as FDA required labeling. I sell lots of things I wouldn't personally use or personally agree with to many different types of retail and wholesale customers. It is my place to meet or exceed the specifications for that product for that customer/'s use. It is not my place to judge a company or individual based on my opinions of a legally traded product within the scope of my business.

You have questioned my integrity based on your opinion that I should not sell any product that is counter to Ray Peat's opinion or practice for a number of reasons; I have a presence here on this forum, have a section dedicated to relevant products, that this section (for clarity sake) utilizes a name specific to those products and related products requested by this community. By your standard, too have integrity, and be worthy of trust, you would require me to drop all products that you don't believe to be Ray Peat friendly. If I was Ray Peat, or was a practitioner that exclusively followed his teachings, I would agree with you. I am neither, I'm a product sourcing company that sources thousands of products to a diverse customer base who deserve the same attention and quality as you do. Is it appropriate for me to not serve their needs if you don't agree with them?

The title "Ray Peat Supplies" was used for clarity, and to separate out relevant products from the rest of the site. Please note, fish oil is not listed under that heading. If Ray requests me to change the heading I happily will adjust it to his satisfaction.

To address your apparent offense to the term market. It's a recognition of common need summed up in one word. For a business to acknowledge that there is a market, is a complement to the individuals who have something in common, because it is a recognition of need and a willingness to fill that need. So in that respect, I do take the term "market" very seriously, because it represents people I value and respect. To ignore a groups needs, when you have the opportunity to serve them, would be offensive. If I didn't value you, I wouldn't acknowledge you as a group, and would ignore you. Market, is a value based business term, not an insult, and was never intended as such. A farmer's market is no different. It is a group of farmers, who have gathered in response to a group of people (a market), who desire to buy directly from farmers.

I will give you the point of the emoticon, it was intended as a nod to the opinions of the forum. For you, it came off wrong. Since emoticons are too open for interpretation, I will avoid their use entirely from now on.

 

[Drareg]

OK, wow this has become a pretty passionate conversation and I appreciate, and respect that. First, let me repeat, that I am not a Ray Peat practitioner, nor versed in his work and do not claim in any way that I am. I only offer what I know, within my scope, and within the scope of this forum. It is not my place to contradict, condone, or promote Ray's teachings within this forum. Nor is my place, to force my values on you, or intentionally start arguments in any way. I will not however, restrict the very wide scope of my business to fit the values of only one segment of my business. To judge me, based on your opinion of a product, is your prerogative. It is also your prerogative to judge me for being measured with my responses. I'm a measured, intentional man and speak intentionally. I would like to ask you this... if you wanted a fish oil, and most of you don't, I get that, do you want one that is the best possible within that category of product? My description and observations of any one product is an option, about that product, intended for those who are already looking for that product. I'm just offering the best possible product, within that category, for those who have asked for it. Perhaps you don't benefit from, or want, fish oil, but you do want and appreciate the other work I have done for products you do want. My opinion of what you should, or should not take/do is not my place here in this forum. My specialty is in chemistry, analysis, and compounding, which gives me a unique ability to assess raw materials. I'm a sourcing, and analysis company, not an exclusive Ray Peat company, selling exclusively to Ray Peat followers. Only a very small portion of my resources are available online at healthnatura.com and are offered there by request. To make these products available in small quantities, under 50 kg-1000+ kg, there has to be a sufficient number of requests to make it worthwhile. By definition, this is what a market is, a group of people asking for a specific product and I didn't intend to be offensive. For example, I carry monolaurin, whether Ray Peat promotes it or not, it not relevant to my business because I serve more people and companies than those in your community. Monolaurin has been in my stock for 18 years, and I don't intend to remove it from my inventory because one segment of my customer base doesn't agree with it as a product. I sell monolaurin by the individual bag, lots of 100-2000 bags, and by the metric ton to a customer base that want's that product, and has hired me to assess and provide the best possible version of it available on the global market. Some of these products you benefit from and some you do not. This is true for fish oil, I was hired by several doctors to find the best possible fish oil product that fit and exceeded their requirements. I also had sufficient requests to offer them online, so I did. How you feel about those doctors, or people who desire fish oil, is irrelevant as they will be using fish oil one way or the other because they believe differently than you. As has been insinuated above I do not participate in making folks sick to create a new customer base. Nor am I in a position to "flood" the market, I leave that to Walmart and GNC. I have created a business that is not in a position to debate or dictate to my customer base what I believe to be best practices when it relates to wellness/health care philosophy. Best practices for my business, is to assess, source, and in some cases manufacture, hard to find, high end products. Less than 10% of my resources are listed on healthnatura.com for retail sales. For example, I sell over 250 essential oils that I have a direct farm to warehouse relationship with. They are not listed on the website because I only deal in pail and drum sizes and the only small unit sizes I sell (15ml-90ml) go out in lots of 100+.

I'm here to serve you, because I'm uniquely placed in the industry to do so. I have quietly served this community for at least a decade without intruding on this forum in any way for my personal gain. My presence on this forum is a recent development and is by invitation. That invitation was conditional, so long as I offered opportunities to give away products. The frequency and visibility of those giveaways are dictated by the Admin of this forum, not me. I have used my presence to ask and listen to your requests and needs, and if possible, fill those needs. In an effort to avoid confusion, and clearly communicate which of these are related to this community, I created the Ray Peat Supplies section. Should Ray Peat ask me to change how the heading is titled I will gladly edit it to his satisfaction.

There has been a huge demand for pure USP aspirin and caffeine. These are recent additions, and have thus far been restricted to manufacturers, pharmacies and physicians. I have hesitated in offering them to the public because I feel that they are easily overdosed, and potentially fatal in low doses. The reality however, is that there is a strong need. When I open these up to the public, in a month or two, I will be trusting in you to use them appropriately. They will be heavily labeled and beg you to be conservative in their use.

I'm sure that there will be those who will pick this post apart, but please, don't be accusational.

Be well,
Peter

It's easy to pick this post apart because it's like a marketing spiel promoting your "clean products from China "
Many vendors provide clean products,your not the only individual to do this. Your products can be found elsewhere.

If your background is in chemistry yet you want to stay neutral on fish oil I'm baffled,you clearly can see it's not needed to supplement, further down you express concern about aspirin and caffeine and say you were reluctant to sell them but now you decided you will sell them,this tells me you are clearly aware of how substances behave in the body and research accordingly.

"In an effort to avoid confusion, and clearly communicate which of these are related to this community, I created the Ray Peat Supplies section"
What confusion exactly? It's not like you have hundreds of Peat inspired products,a search bar and type in what your looking for is the norm online.
Furthermore the "Ray Peat supplies" term implies Peat wants everyone taking this stuff,he doesn't, he would prefer I'm sure for everyone to manage stress and eat correctly, your term is perfect for the magic bullet mentality to fill their cart full of "Ray Peat Supplies", being so proficient in marketing you know this,I feel strongly you know.

It's not a question of when Ray Peat asks you to remove his name,the question is did he give you permission in the first place?

Their is nothing passionate about the posts in this thread,it's critical thinking,your projecting the emotion.

"It is not my place to contradict, condone, or promote Ray's teachings within this forum".
You contradict his work and opinions by putting his name on your website while selling fish oils under the guise of the market.

 

[Pointless]

Wow, harsh words. We may be convinced that fish oil is universally harmful, but it is not so clear to everyone. There is an abundance of positive research on its anti-inflammatory benefits. We may interpret them differently, but it's not a shut case by any means. For example, is there a benefit to omega-3's in a diet that's already rich in omega-6's? Could there be short-term benefits from reduced immune activity?

What if everyone had the same attitude that you did? Say goodbye to sugar, to saturated fat, salt, to hormones, vitamin A, Ciproheptadine, and everything else that benefits us but has been demonized. I'm glad that some people respect a person to do their own research and make their own choices based on the apparent risks and rewards.

I have bought vitamins A, D, and K2 from Health Natura. I'm very happy with the quality, potency, and value. I hope that Peter continues to post here and listen to our requests.