Healing from deep burns--regaining oil/sweat gland function

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Luvfoody

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goodandevil said:
post 101156 I just heard ray peat discussing a burn patient on politics & science progesterone. He said you can warm olive oil and rub it onto tbe skin, then rub progesterone on that. He even went so far as to say he carries progesterone in his first aid kit lol what a character

Thanks, I ordered progest-e so will try that over the olive oil or just warm the protest-e in my hand first and apply. I was waiting for it to come and have pregnenolone so I broke open a capsule and added sprinkle to my vitamin e oil but I read rp didn't find pregnenolone as helpful topically.
 
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tara

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Luvfoody said:
post 101159 Would like something like solban but without the alcohol or perhaps aspirin bc my skin is sensitive and a still atrophic/losing fat. Things that increase circulation might help. Do some folks make their own formulas by just mixing in a very small amount of powders, so like a sprinkle of aspirin powder or niacinamide capsule or a coffee grind to a coconut oil or e base?
Yes, you can make your own brew with niacinamide and or caffeine powder. They are more soluble than water than oil. The alcohol is a preservative, so your own brew in water without it may not last so long before it goes off - just make a smaller batch that you can use up in a few days. I've just dissolved aspirin in water and spread a bit on my skin after sunburn. You can do the same with the ones you want to try. Caffeine powder might be less messy than coffee.
 
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tara

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Luvfoody said:
post 101154
tara said:
post 101131
Such_Saturation said:
post 101127 I think you could use some kind of bag with tubes for the nostrils reaching out of it. However the eye tissue could also need special measures.
Ah, yes, plastic bag over head, snorkel, and keep the eyes shut.:)
I'd probably want someone around to keep an eye on me - could be easy to accidentally breathe a bit too much CO2 and pass out.

Thanks so much for all the nice suggestions. I couldn't find a carbon dioxide cream so might look at covering my face to increase co2. Would sleeping with pillow over head or a gel mask or sleeping with face under the covers for a bit do something similar. If I do a plastic bag, I guess exhale a few times to capture co2 in the bag to puff it out a bit and then punch small holes with straws for either nose or mouth? Does that sound about right?
Pillow over head etc can reduce the oxygen/CO2 exchange in what you are breathing, which is sometime helpful systemically, by raising internal CO2 levels a little. This is not the same as trying to get CO2 in topically to a particular area. For this it would be good to aim for 95%ish Co2, which you cannot get by breathing (you'd pass out and asphyxiate before you got to a fraction of this). High concentration of CO2 on the skin can help bring circulation and oxygen to the local tissues (Bohr effect).
If it's working, the skin gets red and warm. A couple of times I've stuck my hand in a plastic bag, and squeezed out the air, and filled the bag with CO2 from a tank, taped closed, and kept it there for 15-20 mins. Once straight after a minor kitchen burn, a couple of times after other minor injuries. The skin got pink and warm. I think it helped, but it's always hard to know how fast the healing would have gone without treatment. My son objects because it gets too hot. Which proves that it really is bringing extra circulation to the area.

No guarantees that any of these things will be able to undo the existing damage and scarring - can't know for sure whether you'll get benefit from them without trying them.
 
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I've been limiting pufas but I probably have a lot of stored pufas since I thought I was being good with cod liver oil, flaxseed, super gla, etc. i was reading that it takes awhile to de-Pufa-tox. Or if you do it too quickly, it can cause some sort of stress to the skin tissues? I guess supplementing with e and niacinamide and aspirin and avoiding pufas going forward is what I can best do.
 
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[/quote]
Pillow over head etc can reduce the oxygen/CO2 exchange in what you are breathing, which is sometime helpful systemically, by raising internal CO2 levels a little. This is not the same as trying to get CO2 in topically to a particular area. For this it would be good to aim for 95%ish Co2, which you cannot get by breathing (you'd pass out and asphyxiate before you got to a fraction of this). High concentration of CO2 on the skin can help bring circulation and oxygen to the local tissues. If it's working, the skin gets red and warm.

No guarantees that any of these things will be able to undo the existing damage and scarring - can't know for sure whether you'll get benefit from them without trying them.[/quote]

So it sounds like plastic bag or possibly paper bag over face is best, anything else like cotton sheet with holes wouldn't lock out enough air through the microfibers.I suppose need to make sure they don't have much chemicals to it -- bpa free plastic bag.
 

tara

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Luvfoody said:
post 101167 I've been limiting pufas but I probably have a lot of stored pufas since I thought I was being good with cod liver oil, flaxseed, super gla, etc. i was reading that it takes awhile to de-Pufa-tox. Or if you do it too quickly, it can cause some sort of stress to the skin tissues? I guess supplementing with e and niacinamide and aspirin and avoiding pufas going forward is what I can best do.
Yes, it can take a while to replace stored PUFAs with SFAs. I think the skin issues may sometimes arise because increasing metabolism can heighten other deficiencies, eg for B vits. PUFAs can have some short-term anti-inflamatory effects too, though long-term they undermine the system. If you get PUFAs out of tissues and into circulation too fast, it can mess with cellular respiration, and be a bit of a burden. The liver can slowly detoxify it an d excrete it over time if it is not overwhelmed with a whole lot more (or a whole lot of other burdens). Eating a little saturated fat every day can help against theese problems, as well as the other things you said.
 
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tara

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Luvfoody said:
post 101170 So it sounds like plastic bag or possibly paper bag over face is best, anything else like cotton sheet with holes wouldn't lock out enough air through the microfibers.I suppose need to make sure they don't have much chemicals to it -- bpa free plastic bag.
The plastic bag over head idea is not one I or anyone I am aware of has tried. It has been used on other parts of the body (I edited the post above to add a it more on this). This is using a pressure cylinder or tank of concentrated liquid CO2. If you decide to try this, I would definitely have a snorkel or other means to breath air from the room, not CO2 from inside the bag, as that would be very dangerous. I'd also have someone in the room with me watching, who can whip the bag off very quickly if I slumped.

It seems possible, but it does have risk attached, so I'm not sure if it is a good idea, despite my initial enthusiasm for the idea.

A cotton sheet with holes might work great for sleeping under - for the systemic CO2 benefits, not the topical ones.
 
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Hmm I might blow into a plastic bag to puff it up and tie it just around my forehead to see. Y would proceed with caution on whole face and possibly just section it off if it's possible to prevent air escaping. Thanks for all the suggestions -- y I understand there isn't much history as to risks or positive outcomes to treat burns, so will take with grain of salt or sugar ;)
 

tara

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Luvfoody said:
post 101178 Hmm I might blow into a plastic bag to puff it up and tie it just around my forehead to see. Y would proceed with caution on whole face and possibly just section it off if it's possible to prevent air escaping. Thanks for all the suggestions -- y I understand there isn't much history as to risks or positive outcomes to treat burns, so will take with grain of salt or sugar ;)
Even rebreathing as much as you can stand into a plastic or paper bag is unlikely to get more than 10% CO2 (you'd probably pass out before then). I think you may need over 90% to be effective topically. Though you might get systemic benefits from the rebreathing (without bothering to put it on your face).
 
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I filled up a large ziploc bag through a straw and put it over my forehead like a bandana. I guess it would help hair growth potentially too. Anyway so it seems you're saying that your exhale only gets 10p co2 content and the only way to have topically concentrated co2 would be to use a tank to puff it up. I saw there are some Empire tanks on Amazon for$20 or so, that you take to a sporting goods store to refill, if those are the same ones you are referring to?

Will let you know how it goes with the forehead test spot. I can feel it warm and turning red so seems to be exhibiting those signs.
 

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I wonder if a baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) paste might increase CO2 in the skin cells. I don't understand the chemistry even remotely but RP said in an interview that bicarbonate ions can convert to CO2.
 
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I agree with tara, it feels like with something like scars it would take some pretty radical treatment to hope seeing any kind of results. You want to emulate the prenatal environment as much as possible, and the skin should turn red and wet. Many people also report that vitamin E can remove scars, but I have never tried that.
 

tara

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Luvfoody said:
post 101187 I saw there are some Empire tanks on Amazon for$20 or so, that you take to a sporting goods store to refill, if those are the same ones you are referring to?
Possibly. I don't know that brand. Either a smaller cylinder or a larger tank should be fine. To be able to control the flow of CO2, you need at least a hand operated valve and a hose attached to it. More expensive option is a regulator. Be aware that they are at high pressure, so you have to treat them with care. You don't want to accidentally knock the nozzle off and create a missile. Also, if you let the gas out fast, it gets very cold, and you can get ice or freeze your hand to the outlet.

Here's a report of my experiment, for general purpose of improving internal CO2 levels and metabolism.
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3503&p=42125

Even if you are not deliberately putting a bag over your mouth or nose, you still need to be cautious about not breathing too much CO2. When I accidentally inhaled a bit, I could taste it (like soda water) and I got slightly dizzy.

I've also used it on minor injuries on hands.
 
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Thanks so much for all the kind replies :) I'm starting with the co2 bag breathing-- sone of that covers my cheek area too if that might make a difference.

I had read a thread where one person used co2 on their leg and it was thinner than the other leg. I'm hoping to rebuild the subcutaneous fat so was a little concerned that the co2 might cause some compression. But maybe not?

Wondering if anyone worked in co2 therapy using a waterproof bandaid-- not sure if that just keeps out oxygen and co2. Also has anyone worked with dry ice -- was thinking that may be less scary than maneuvering a co2 tank.
 

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