Headache, Serotonin, And Cyproheptadine

[nostalgic]

Ever since I started eating protein again I've had a constant headache that I can't get rid of. I've tried 8mg Cyproheptadine 3 times a day but it doesn't do very much to alleviate it. Aspirin helps for a short while, and Famotidine helps decently but the effect only lasts for 4 hours with Famotidine. Could this really be high serotonin if Cyproheptadine doesn't work at that high dose? My very tense shoulder muscles are the culprits I think, which get worse when I eat protein.

 

[alywest]

Ever since I started eating protein again I've had a constant headache that I can't get rid of. I've tried 8mg Cyproheptadine 3 times a day but it doesn't do very much to alleviate it. Aspirin helps for a short while, and Famotidine helps decently but the effect only lasts for 4 hours with Famotidine. Could this really be high serotonin if Cyproheptadine doesn't work at that high dose? My very tense shoulder muscles are the culprits I think, which get worse when I eat protein.

Are you using plenty of gelatin or collagen to make sure the amino acid balance isn't weighing too heavily on the side of tryptophan? Tryptophan in too high doses gives me headaches. How balanced are your meals with carbohydrate and fat as well?

 

[biffbelvin]

My very tense shoulder muscles are the culprits I think, which get worse when I eat protein.

I has chronic headaches and really bass pressure in my head. Went to a physio for a sports masage and it sorted me out. The massage itself sucked, but it loosened me up great.

I've been focusing on scapula mobilization as well as a light full-body-bodyweight routine and it's staved the tension of really well. Going for a top-up massage after 2 months.

I know on this forum most people like to look straight at what one can ingest to solve a problem. For me however, most of my pain has been musculoskeletal in nature and 'physical' solutions have always been 100x more effective than, say, supplementing glycine.

 

[alywest]

I has chronic headaches and really bass pressure in my head. Went to a physio for a sports masage and it sorted me out. The massage itself sucked, but it loosened me up great.

I've been focusing on scapula mobilization as well as a light full-body-bodyweight routine and it's staved the tension of really well. Going for a top-up massage after 2 months.

I know on this forum most people like to look straight at what one can ingest to solve a problem. For me however, most of my pain has been musculoskeletal in nature and 'physical' solutions have always been 100x more effective than, say, supplementing glycine.

Glycine is a component of gelatin, but I wouldn't say that they are one in the same, and I would consider gelatin a whole food as opposed to a supplement. There is a reason that it's a lot more expensive than a glycine supplement, and that's because of the particular natural balance of amino acids it contains, along with the fact that it has no tryptophan. If you consume a lot of muscle meat as a lot of body builder types do, it seems that taking glycine wouldn't be a bad idea, but I would really recommend not only making things with gelatin powder, but even making bone broth from scratch. If you just threw the ingredients in a slow cooker in the morning and then let it refrigerate overnight so that the fat could be skimmed off, you'd have an excellent "supplement" which is much more than a pill could ever offer.

 

[nostalgic]

Are you using plenty of gelatin or collagen to make sure the amino acid balance isn't weighing too heavily on the side of tryptophan? Tryptophan in too high doses gives me headaches. How balanced are your meals with carbohydrate and fat as well?

Collagen gives me an even worse headache so I stay away from that. But shouldn't Cyproheptadine protect me against the headache if it's actually due to high serotonin? It does help with other symptoms of high serotonin like muscle twitches, tingling etc.

I eat plenty of fat and carbs so that's not the problem I think.

 

[nostalgic]

I has chronic headaches and really bass pressure in my head. Went to a physio for a sports masage and it sorted me out. The massage itself sucked, but it loosened me up great.

I've been focusing on scapula mobilization as well as a light full-body-bodyweight routine and it's staved the tension of really well. Going for a top-up massage after 2 months.

I know on this forum most people like to look straight at what one can ingest to solve a problem. For me however, most of my pain has been musculoskeletal in nature and 'physical' solutions have always been 100x more effective than, say, supplementing glycine.

The headache gets worse every time I either eat food, use magnesium oil, or take a Vitamin D supplement, so it's definitely caused by some imbalance but I'm not sure if it's serotonin or something else.

 

[biffbelvin]

Glycine is a component of gelatin, but I wouldn't say that they are one in the same, and I would consider gelatin a whole food as opposed to a supplement. There is a reason that it's a lot more expensive than a glycine supplement, and that's because of the particular natural balance of amino acids it contains, along with the fact that it has no tryptophan. If you consume a lot of muscle meat as a lot of body builder types do, it seems that taking glycine wouldn't be a bad idea, but I would really recommend not only making things with gelatin powder, but even making bone broth from scratch. If you just threw the ingredients in a slow cooker in the morning and then let it refrigerate overnight so that the fat could be skimmed off, you'd have an excellent "supplement" which is much more than a pill could ever offer.

No no, you're missing the point. Whether we're talking about Glycine, Gelatin or Bone broth is irrelevant. It was the physical actions that made the most difference to me. Myofascial release and a decent mobility/exercise routine are what improved my symptoms of pain because the origin was musculoskeletal in nature.

If i was eating a perfect peaty diet, taking optimal supplements and the like, i'd still be in more pain than if i stuck to the exercise/massage and consumed a crappy diet.

As an example, 4 years ago i used to get pretty bad pain in my wrists. I was convinced that it got worse when i ate rice, and so presumed it was down to some kind of inflammation (my flatmate had convinced me that low-carb paleo was the greatest diet in the world), i even looked for ways to naturally increase cortisol levels (lol). In actual fact it was deferred pain from overly tight trap muscles. I'd had this pain on and off for 2 years, trying to eat my way out of it and this guy dove straight to the problem in a couple of minutes. A more sessions and some work on my posture cured it completely.

The headache gets worse every time I either eat food, use magnesium oil, or take a Vitamin D supplement, so it's definitely caused by some imbalance but I'm not sure if it's serotonin or something else.

I'm genuinely sorry i can't be of assistance here man. I hope someone else on this forum can put you in the direction.

For what it's worth, it might still be worth trying some gentle exercise 30 minutes to an hour after eating. Even a 15 minute walk, or semi-strenuous housework will raise Co2 levels, which i find to be the number one way to shake off headaches.

Edit: I Forgot to ask, what food are you eating?

 

[nostalgic]

No no, you're missing the point. Whether we're talking about Glycine, Gelatin or Bone broth is irrelevant. It was the physical actions that made the most difference to me. Myofascial release and a decent mobility/exercise routine are what improved my symptoms of pain because the origin was musculoskeletal in nature.

If i was eating a perfect peaty diet, taking optimal supplements and the like, i'd still be in more pain than if i stuck to the exercise/massage and consumed a crappy diet.

As an example, 4 years ago i used to get pretty bad pain in my wrists. I was convinced that it got worse when i ate rice, and so presumed it was down to some kind of inflammation (my flatmate had convinced me that low-carb paleo was the greatest diet in the world), i even looked for ways to naturally increase cortisol levels (lol). In actual fact it was deferred pain from overly tight trap muscles. I'd had this pain on and off for 2 years, trying to eat my way out of it and this guy dove straight to the problem in a couple of minutes. A more sessions and some work on my posture cured it completely.



I'm genuinely sorry i can't be of assistance here man. I hope someone else on this forum can put you in the direction.

For what it's worth, it might still be worth trying some gentle exercise 30 minutes to an hour after eating. Even a 15 minute walk, or semi-strenuous housework will raise Co2 levels, which i find to be the number one way to shake off headaches.

Edit: I Forgot to ask, what food are you eating?

I eat regular dishes now.

 

[alywest]

Collagen gives me an even worse headache so I stay away from that. But shouldn't Cyproheptadine protect me against the headache if it's actually due to high serotonin? It does help with other symptoms of high serotonin like muscle twitches, tingling etc.

I eat plenty of fat and carbs so that's not the problem I think.

I think Cypro would help, but I think if you continue to eat things that promote serotonin too much, as well as estrogen, then you'll be stuck with the headaches. I also think progesterone is protective, since estrogen and serotonin go hand in hand. Also, have you tried taking larger doses of activated charcoal to help keep endotoxin at bay? Serotonin is the result of endotoxin getting into the bloodstream through the cell walls of the intestine, so keeping your intestine healthier should technically help. I think Lapodin (idealabs) looks interesting for that, but also cascara sagrada. Lapodin is a more concentrated form of the good stuff in cascara sagrada from what I have gathered.

 

[nostalgic]

Does anyone know if Cyproheptadine helps against headaches caused by high serotonin? Or what would?

 

[nostalgic]

I think Cypro would help, but I think if you continue to eat things that promote serotonin too much, as well as estrogen, then you'll be stuck with the headaches. I also think progesterone is protective, since estrogen and serotonin go hand in hand. Also, have you tried taking larger doses of activated charcoal to help keep endotoxin at bay? Serotonin is the result of endotoxin getting into the bloodstream through the cell walls of the intestine, so keeping your intestine healthier should technically help. I think Lapodin (idealabs) looks interesting for that, but also cascara sagrada. Lapodin is a more concentrated form of the good stuff in cascara sagrada from what I have gathered.

Cyproheptadine doesn't help with the headache at all, even at 8mg. Maybe it's due to histamine or something else, what do you think? I really need to get my headaches under control, they're unbearable. My shoulders and neck are super tense from eating food which results in these tension headaches from hell. I also have a very high pulse rate, and it gets worse when eating as well.

I've tried charcoal but it didn't do anything for me.

 

[alywest]

Cyproheptadine doesn't help with the headache at all, even at 8mg. Maybe it's due to histamine or something else, what do you think? I really need to get my headaches under control, they're unbearable. My shoulders and neck are super tense from eating food which results in these tension headaches from hell. I also have a very high pulse rate, and it gets worse when eating as well.

I've tried charcoal but it didn't do anything for me.

What are you eating specifically? I know it's difficult to cut out foods but it sounds like this is caused by food allergies. Do you get a lot of calcium?

 

[alywest]

A combination of 200mg B2, 325mg aspirin, 200mg caffeine capsule and full glass of orange juice remedies a migraine for me.

 

[nostalgic]

I've tried b2 in high doses but didn't notice any improvement. Aspirin barely helps either.

I eat salmon, beef, chicken, cheese, milk, potatoes, rice etc. I drink about 1l of milk every day.

 

[alywest]

I've tried b2 in high doses but didn't notice any improvement. Aspirin barely helps either.

I eat salmon, beef, chicken, cheese, milk, potatoes, rice etc. I drink about 1l of milk every day.

That is a lot of tryptophan. Plus salmon is questionable because of the PUFA. If you swish some coconut oil in your mouth for about five minutes and then swallow it before eating a meal high in tryptophan you should be able to convert more of it to niacin. You can tell by the color of your nailbeds (should be pink). Also, do you think you might have high iron stores? I suspect that some headaches are caused by that. Consuming vitamin c throughout the day can really help with iron processing, just don't take near the meat. Check out the fuckportioncontrol blog. He also talks about antihistamines throughout the day and night being good, especially to help reduce acetylcholine. Look at the cure for alcoholism post (I think.) Anyway, I am getting most of this information from that.

Would you consider cutting out the the salmon and substituting something else from the ocean, like shrimp or oysters? Also have you tried various brands of milk (sometimes the feed of the cows can affect the final product and trigger headaches in people. Perhaps try ultra-pasteurized.) Also, only eating cheeses with no microbial enzymes? Those are allergenic for some people. I'm sorry you're having bad headaches, I sympathize because I experience them, too. Also adding more calcium, you would need to drink over a gallon of milk plus cheese to get 3g a day and that can really help with various things like endotoxin and therefore serotonin.

 

[tara]

The headache gets worse every time I either eat food, use magnesium oil, or take a Vitamin D supplement, so it's definitely caused by some imbalance but I'm not sure if it's serotonin or something else.

There are probably lots of possibilities in addition to direct serotonin that can contribute to headaches that you could try addressing to see if they help.

My shoulders and neck are super tense from eating food which results in these tension headaches from hell. I also have a very high pulse rate, and it gets worse when eating as well.

The musculo-skeletal tension and posture could be one. Ecstatichamster had good success with an exercise to relieve neck tension.
If it is a tension headache, it might respond well to some expert massage and some well-tailored exercises to allow the relevant neck muscles to relax with good alignment.

Hydration is another - drinking enough fluids (but not too much). I think magnesium supplements can be expected to worsen dehydration even if one is also deficient in Mg. For me, when Mg and food are making mine worse I have to check if I'm needing water. Too high heartrate is another indicator for me personally.

Spreading fluids through the day is probably easier to handle than extreme volumes seldom.
IIRC, someone (amazoniac?) had some material about how things vit-D supps can do in relation to Mg balance.

I eat salmon, beef, chicken, cheese, milk, potatoes, rice etc. I drink about 1l of milk every day.

Does the etc include fruit and veges?
Personally, and this does not necessarily apply to you, my head does not cope well with much milk, and when it is sensitive it doesn't cope with much sugar (fructose), and misses veges, esp greens if I don't eat them regularly.

Does anyone know if Cyproheptadine helps against headaches caused by high serotonin? Or what would?

I know that it is sometimes used to interrupt migraines, but that it does not work for all migraineurs or all the time. I've not heard of it being used for other kinds of headache. Peat has said migraines often occur on a background of elevated serotonin (amongst other things, including elevated estrogen and histamine). But I'm not sure if it's the level of serotonin that triggers the migraines, or whether it is a rapid change in level.
I tried using some cyproheptadine on the basis that it is supposed to counter both serotonin and histamine. I didn't get enough obvious benefit to continue with it, but might try again some time. Not sure if that was because I didn't get dosing optimal for my state, or because it was just not going to be useful for me. I tried it both a small number of times according to packet directions to abort a migraine, and low dose daily for a bit as some here have found helpful.

Carrot salad, unless you have particular difficulty with it, could be useful to keep things moving. ANd a little cascara sagrada now and then if things are not moving enough.

Wishing you relief soon.

 

[nostalgic]

That is a lot of tryptophan. Plus salmon is questionable because of the PUFA. If you swish some coconut oil in your mouth for about five minutes and then swallow it before eating a meal high in tryptophan you should be able to convert more of it to niacin. You can tell by the color of your nailbeds (should be pink). Also, do you think you might have high iron stores? I suspect that some headaches are caused by that. Consuming vitamin c throughout the day can really help with iron processing, just don't take near the meat. Check out the fuckportioncontrol blog. He also talks about antihistamines throughout the day and night being good, especially to help reduce acetylcholine. Look at the cure for alcoholism post (I think.) Anyway, I am getting most of this information from that.

Would you consider cutting out the the salmon and substituting something else from the ocean, like shrimp or oysters? Also have you tried various brands of milk (sometimes the feed of the cows can affect the final product and trigger headaches in people. Perhaps try ultra-pasteurized.) Also, only eating cheeses with no microbial enzymes? Those are allergenic for some people. I'm sorry you're having bad headaches, I sympathize because I experience them, too. Also adding more calcium, you would need to drink over a gallon of milk plus cheese to get 3g a day and that can really help with various things like endotoxin and therefore serotonin.

Interesting about the coconut oil, do you know how much is needed? Should my nailbeds be pink after the coconut oil?
The reason I eat a lot of salmon now is due to my Vitamin D deficiency, I was hoping I'd tolerate it better than the supplements but I'm not sure if I do. I'll try another brand, thanks for the tip. A gallon? Then you'd need to supplement with a ton of magnesium too, right?

There are probably lots of possibilities in addition to direct serotonin that can contribute to headaches that you could try addressing to see if they help.

The musculo-skeletal tension and posture could be one. Ecstatichamster had good success with an exercise to relieve neck tension.
If it is a tension headache, it might respond well to some expert massage and some well-tailored exercises to allow the relevant neck muscles to relax with good alignment.

Hydration is another - drinking enough fluids (but not too much). I think magnesium supplements can be expected to worsen dehydration even if one is also deficient in Mg. For me, when Mg and food are making mine worse I have to check if I'm needing water. Too high heartrate is another indicator for me personally.

Spreading fluids through the day is probably easier to handle than extreme volumes seldom.
IIRC, someone (amazoniac?) had some material about how things vit-D supps can do in relation to Mg balance.


Does the etc include fruit and veges?
Personally, and this does not necessarily apply to you, my head does not cope well with much milk, and when it is sensitive it doesn't cope with much sugar (fructose), and misses veges, esp greens if I don't eat them regularly.


I know that it is sometimes used to interrupt migraines, but that it does not work for all migraineurs or all the time. I've not heard of it being used for other kinds of headache. Peat has said migraines often occur on a background of elevated serotonin (amongst other things, including elevated estrogen and histamine). But I'm not sure if it's the level of serotonin that triggers the migraines, or whether it is a rapid change in level.
I tried using some cyproheptadine on the basis that it is supposed to counter both serotonin and histamine. I didn't get enough obvious benefit to continue with it, but might try again some time. Not sure if that was because I didn't get dosing optimal for my state, or because it was just not going to be useful for me. I tried it both a small number of times according to packet directions to abort a migraine, and low dose daily for a bit as some here have found helpful.

Carrot salad, unless you have particular difficulty with it, could be useful to keep things moving. ANd a little cascara sagrada now and then if things are not moving enough.

Wishing you relief soon.

I do get plenty of water throughout the day so I don't think that's the culprit for me. I get a pretty bad stomache from fruits so I don't eat them often, but I do take a multivitamin everyday to get the needed vitamins I'm missing from not eating the fruit, and only a few vegetables. I eat raw carrots almost everyday.

Does Cyproheptadine work outside the brain as well? I'm really hoping this is due to some histamine problems, so I can treat it.

 

[tara]

I do get plenty of water throughout the day so I don't think that's the culprit for me. I get a pretty bad stomache from fruits so I don't eat them often, but I do take a multivitamin everyday to get the needed vitamins I'm missing from not eating the fruit, and only a few vegetables. I eat raw carrots almost everyday.

For me, if I go more than a day or two without greens I seem more vulnerable. I'm not sure exactly which nutrients are the critical ones for me, but just supplementing magnesium doesn't seem to fully fill this need for me. Have you tracked your potassium intake?

Do you have tummy-trouble with stewed fruit as well as raw? Or fruit broth?
Well-cooked veges?
Green broth should be easy on the stomach? Peat sometimes suggests this.
Personally, I include greens and other veges in soups and stews.

Does Cyproheptadine work outside the brain as well? I'm really hoping this is due to some histamine problems, so I can treat it.

I think it can oppose serotonin in the gut - potentially slowing down transit, if this is dependent on high serotonin. Can't remember if you've tried small amounts of aged cascara sagrada, or have contraindications.

 

[nostalgic]

For me, if I go more than a day or two without greens I seem more vulnerable. I'm not sure exactly which nutrients are the critical ones for me, but just supplementing magnesium doesn't seem to fully fill this need for me. Have you tracked your potassium intake?

Do you have tummy-trouble with stewed fruit as well as raw? Or fruit broth?
Well-cooked veges?
Green broth should be easy on the stomach? Peat sometimes suggests this.
Personally, I include greens and other veges in soups and stews.


I think it can oppose serotonin in the gut - potentially slowing down transit, if this is dependent on high serotonin. Can't remember if you've tried small amounts of aged cascara sagrada, or have contraindications.

I'll try to get all my vitamins and minerals checked this or next week so I don't have any more deficiencies. Cooked vegetables are fine, and I do eat fruit occassionally. I'll do some vege broth as soon as my headache gets better.

The reason I asked if cyproheptadine works outside the brain is because I'd like to know for a fact if my headache is caused by high serotonin or not. I might try cascara in the future, thanks.

 

[Bodhi]

Get your neck cracked by a chiroprakter