Have Adrenal Fatigue? No You Don't

4peatssake

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Here is a new article by Danny Roddy

Have Adrenal Fatigue? No You Don't

He starts off with this quote by Ray Peat.
Ray Peat said:
“Thyroid is needed for the adrenals to function well, and adequate cholesterol, as raw material. It’s popular to talk about ‘weak adrenals,’ but the adrenal cortex regenerates very well. Animal experimenters can make animals that lack the adrenal medulla by scooping out everything inside the adrenal capsule, and the remaining cells quickly regenerate the steroid producing tissues, the cortex. So I think the ‘low adrenal’ people are simply low thyroid, or deficient in cholesterol or nutrients.”
— Raymond Peat, PhD
 

juanitacarlos

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I have to agree with Danny (and Ray) that the adrenal fatigue diagnosis, as it stands, is bogus (in my experience). A doctor I have seen diagnosed me with 'adrenal fatigue', due to chronic low cortisol (in the blood tests). Apparently my adrenals are fatigued, just over-worked, need a rest. So I had to avoid public enemy number one - coffee. Take some expensive adrenal potion. Couldn't make the cortisol budge though, until one day week I got sick with the flu. Had my blood test during that time, and my cortisol was through the roof. I asked the doctor how is this possible?? I thought me 'drenals were kaput? Of course, he had no answer. Literally. He couldn't even make something up. But I should be thankful because it did make me take ownership over my health and led me to the Peat.

Things began to improve for me when I went on NDT btw...
 

gretchen

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Gran Turisma

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Even if adrenal fatigue is not as prominent as believed, there are definitely adrenal issues which cause problems like anxiety. Over-stimulating the adrenals with constant caffeine hits is possibly why there are so many people these days getting panic attacks. The adrenals are regularly sending a fight or flight signal to the amygdala and too much of this sends some people into a spin out. It also doesn't help to live in a civilization of general overstimulation, whether through violence on TV, too much pressure, etc.

A Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioner will tell you if you have adrenal fatigue. Though they don't have a concept of the adrenals, their diagnosis of "kidney insufficiency" is actually a diagnosis of the state of the adrenals. So if you want to check for adrenal fatigue, go this route. Also get a saliva assay (more accurate than blood test) of your cortisol levels (4 samples over 12 hours is required) as this is the best way for Western medicine to diagnose adrenal fatigue. My cortisol was dipping below normal at the mid morning point, then picking up. The path lab diagnosed this as adrenal fatigue. My Chinese Herbalist also diagnosed my main problem as being kidney insufficiency.
 

4peatssake

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Gran Turisma said:
Even if adrenal fatigue is not as prominent as believed, there are definitely adrenal issues which cause problems like anxiety. Over-stimulating the adrenals with constant caffeine hits is possibly why there are so many people these days getting panic attacks. The adrenals are regularly sending a fight or flight signal to the amygdala and too much of this sends some people into a spin out. It also doesn't help to live in a civilization of general overstimulation, whether through violence on TV, too much pressure, etc.

A Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioner will tell you if you have adrenal fatigue. Though they don't have a concept of the adrenals, their diagnosis of "kidney insufficiency" is actually a diagnosis of the state of the adrenals. So if you want to check for adrenal fatigue, go this route. Also get a saliva assay (more accurate than blood test) of your cortisol levels (4 samples over 12 hours is required) as this is the best way for Western medicine to diagnose adrenal fatigue. My cortisol was dipping below normal at the mid morning point, then picking up. The path lab diagnosed this as adrenal fatigue. My Chinese Herbalist also diagnosed my main problem as being kidney insufficiency.
It's not that the adrenals are not being taxed that is the issue. It is the true cause that is no longer properly understood nor being treated correctly.

Ray Peat said:
A very healthy 71 year-old man was under his house repairing the foundation, when a support slipped and let the house fall far enough to break some facial bones. During his recovery, he developed arthritis in his hands. It is fairly common for arthritis to appear shortly after an accident, a shock, or surgery, and Han Selye's famous work with rats shows that when stress exhausts the adrenal glands (so they are unable to produce normal amounts of cortisone and related steroid hormones), arthritis and other "degenerative" diseases are likely to develop.

But when this man went to his doctor to "get something for his arthritis," he was annoyed that the doctor insisted on giving him a complete physical exam, and wouldn't give him a shot of cortisone. The examination showed low thyroid function, and the doctor prescribed a supplement of thyroid extract, explaining that arthritis is one of the many symptoms of hypothyroidism. The patient agreed to take the thyroid, but for several days he grumbled about the doctor 'fixing something that wasn't wrong' with him, and ignoring his arthritis. But in less than two weeks, the arthritis had entirely disappeared. He lived to be 89, without a recurrence of arthritis. (He died iatrogenically, while in good health.)

Selye's work with the diseases of stress, and the anti-stress hormones of the adrenal cortex, helped many scientists to think more clearly about the interaction of the organism with its environment, but it has led others to focus too narrowly on hormones of the adrenal cortex (such as cortisol and cortisone), and to forget the older knowledge about natural resistance. There are probably only a few physicians now practicing who would remember to check for hypothyroidism in an arthritis patient, or in other stress-related conditions. Hypothyroidism is a common cause of adrenal insufficiency, but it also has some direct effects on joint tissues. In chronic hypothyroidism (myxedema and cretinism), knees and elbows are often bent abnormally.

Blocking Tissue Destruction

Ray Peat said:
In experiments, progesterone was found to be the basic hormone of adaptation and of resistance to stress. The adrenal glands use it to produce their anti-stress hormones, and when there is enough progesterone, they don't have to produce the potentially harmful cortisone. In a progesterone deficiency, we produce too much cortisone, and excessive cortisone causes osteoporosis, aging of the skin, damage to brain cells, and the accumulation of fat, especially on the back and abdomen.

Progesterone Pregnenolone & DHEA - Three Youth-Associated Hormones

Ray Peat said:
"If your thyroid is working efficiently, your pituitary doesn't have much to do and you're not likely to get a pituitary tumor, your adrenals don't have much to do, and your ovaries don't get over stimulated. The other glands have an easy job when your thyroid is working right. If your thyroid gets interfered with, you have to rev up your adrenals and your pituitary becomes commander in chief and tells everyone what to do."

Another really good article is Immunodeficiency, dioxins, stress, and the hormones
 

readforjoy

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I love Peat, but I strongly disagree with his statement, " So I think the ‘low adrenal’ people are simply low thyroid, or deficient in cholesterol or nutrients.”

People like me who are low in cortisol will feel worse when trying to supplement thyroid (with NDT or T3) unless they do something to boost their cortisol levels. Thyroid and cortisol work together synergestically. From what I'm reading, hydrocortisone, pregnenolone, or progesterone can be used to boost cortisol.

I've tried NDT and T3 and they made me much worse. Hydrocortisone didn't work. Frequent doses of pregnenolone together with T3 DID work. I am currently switching from pregnenolone to progesterone, though, because I am estrogen dominant.

This protocol gave me my life back:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachme ... c16%20.att
 

kiran

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readforjoy, I used to be in a similar situation. Just be aware that it's possible to be allergic to NDT, try a T4+T3 combo too.
I was, thats why I couldn't increase my NDT dose. Now that I switched to T4, I am gradually increasing my dose.
 

answersfound

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readforjoy said:
I love Peat, but I strongly disagree with his statement, " So I think the ‘low adrenal’ people are simply low thyroid, or deficient in cholesterol or nutrients.”

People like me who are low in cortisol will feel worse when trying to supplement thyroid (with NDT or T3) unless they do something to boost their cortisol levels. Thyroid and cortisol work together synergestically. From what I'm reading, hydrocortisone, pregnenolone, or progesterone can be used to boost cortisol.

I've tried NDT and T3 and they made me much worse. Hydrocortisone didn't work. Frequent doses of pregnenolone together with T3 DID work. I am currently switching from pregnenolone to progesterone, though, because I am estrogen dominant.

This protocol gave me my life back:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachme ... c16%20.att

Are you a man or woman? Do you do oral or transdermal pregnenolone/progesterone?
 

answersfound

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yoshiesque said:
Have you read the site below? It says you need to fix adrenal issues FIRST before treating Thyroid issues. I dont know whats right, but their views also make sense.

http://www.thyroidrt3.com/adrenals.htm

Yes I have read that site. Anytime you read that you should be taking hydrocortisone, you should turn the other way. They take extremely high doses of Cytomel and if you can't tolerate 5-10 mcg then they tell you that you need hydrocortisone. They don't realize that any more than 4mcg is not physiological.

However pregnenolone and progesterone are safer options because they increase the necessary hormones at the body's discression. I don't think you need to heal the adrenals first. I just think you need to start with 1 mcg of Cytomel and increase very slowly. And take those hormones if you feel you may be low in them.
 

burtlancast

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Regeneration of adrenals:

the adrenal is very good at renewing itself: you can demonstrate the total renewal of the adrenal cortex by scooping out the contents, everything that’s inside the capsule of the adrenal gland can be scooped out. And the cells of the inside of the capsule, the fibrous capsule, there’s a layer of cells that will multiply. And, they will, within about 3 months, produce fully structured, brand new adrenal glands.



 

tomisonbottom

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I love Peat, but I strongly disagree with his statement, " So I think the ‘low adrenal’ people are simply low thyroid, or deficient in cholesterol or nutrients.”

People like me who are low in cortisol will feel worse when trying to supplement thyroid (with NDT or T3) unless they do something to boost their cortisol levels. Thyroid and cortisol work together synergestically. From what I'm reading, hydrocortisone, pregnenolone, or progesterone can be used to boost cortisol.

I've tried NDT and T3 and they made me much worse. Hydrocortisone didn't work. Frequent doses of pregnenolone together with T3 DID work. I am currently switching from pregnenolone to progesterone, though, because I am estrogen dominant.

This protocol gave me my life back:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachme ... c16%20.att

The page is blank. What was your protocol?
 

Jsaute21

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I have to agree with Danny (and Ray) that the adrenal fatigue diagnosis, as it stands, is bogus (in my experience). A doctor I have seen diagnosed me with 'adrenal fatigue', due to chronic low cortisol (in the blood tests). Apparently my adrenals are fatigued, just over-worked, need a rest. So I had to avoid public enemy number one - coffee. Take some expensive adrenal potion. Couldn't make the cortisol budge though, until one day week I got sick with the flu. Had my blood test during that time, and my cortisol was through the roof. I asked the doctor how is this possible?? I thought me 'drenals were kaput? Of course, he had no answer. Literally. He couldn't even make something up. But I should be thankful because it did make me take ownership over my health and led me to the Peat.

Things began to improve for me when I went on NDT btw...

Thanks for this post. Had the same diagnosis from a "doctor" from low cortisol. Tried to make me take some expensive adrenal potions as well.
 

Xisca

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What sort of potion do you mean? What is in it?
I believe there is a link, and that SOMETIMES it is necessary to treat adrenals first, maybe not long, but I sure agree it is stupid to treat ONLY adrenals and forget thyroid!
When you are low thyroid, I do not see how it is possible that the adrenals would stay quiet without helping!
I do boost myself to produce stress hormones, I have developped many tricks!

1 that maybe most have done: let's say you are tired but driving and cannot stop. I just accelerate and HAVE to get very alert, though I of course stay secure. Stress hormones rise, and then I am no more sleepy.
I also use intellect, like reading a RP forum... to wake up in the morning! I am not crazy enough to use interval training early in the morning and fasting.... A coffee while reading here is much safer!

This I believe is very true:
I love Peat, but I strongly disagree with his statement, " So I think the ‘low adrenal’ people are simply low thyroid, or deficient in cholesterol or nutrients.”

People like me who are low in cortisol will feel worse when trying to supplement thyroid (with NDT or T3) unless they do something to boost their cortisol levels. Thyroid and cortisol work together synergestically. From what I'm reading, hydrocortisone, pregnenolone, or progesterone can be used to boost cortisol.

I've tried NDT and T3 and they made me much worse. Hydrocortisone didn't work. Frequent doses of pregnenolone together with T3 DID work. I am currently switching from pregnenolone to progesterone, though, because I am estrogen dominant.

This protocol gave me my life back:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachme ... c16%20.att
(broken old link...)
 
Last edited:

Buttercup

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Interesting thread. So what is coffees relationship to the adrenal system? It potently raises cortisol which, according to some here in this thread is a good thing (in certain contexts), but when taken with sufficient sugar it just increases thyroid (hopefully), and doesn't tax the adrenal system as much?

Have I got that right?

So basically, coffee without sugar is quite dumb.
 

Jsaute21

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Lets say someones adrenals were in rough shape...what would be the best way at increasing their function? I feel pretty good when i drink coffee but occasionally feel more tired than i should. Is optimizing thyroid function the most efficient way at improving adrenal function?
 

Frankdee20

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Interesting thread. So what is coffees relationship to the adrenal system? It potently raises cortisol which, according to some here in this thread is a good thing (in certain contexts), but when taken with sufficient sugar it just increases thyroid (hopefully), and doesn't tax the adrenal system as much?

Have I got that right?

So basically, coffee without sugar is quite dumb.

I find coffee to have transient effects on providing energy, providing cognitive enhancement, all things one associates positively about stimulants, etc. It definitely has slightly different effects taken with or without sugar, but that also depends on if you've got food in you. A large or good dose of caffeine in coffee won't always energize me, it can do the opposite, tax energy reserves after anxiety sets in. The first cup or two of the day feel good, but then one can't reproduce those effects later in the day. One things for sure, it has warming effects on the body. I feel like taking without sugar is more likely to increase hunger, irritability. But then too much coffee throughout the day increase acidity, especially paired with Aspirin.
 
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