Hashimoto, help for my mother

peatpower

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Dec 16, 2015
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Hello at all c:

I'm 19 yers old, mal and from Germany
This thread isn't for me, but for my mother, she can't speak english so I gonna write for her.

My Mom is 51 years old and has E06.3 (G) Hashimoto's Threoiditis and
E04.9 (G) Struma nodosa / Nontoxic goitre, unspecified

She is 168cm tall and weigh 95kg

Her blood tests came back like this 6 months ago, they are the newest:
TSH [TSH] 1.80 uU/ml Reference: 0.3 - 3.5
FT3 [FT3] 4.36 pg/ml Reference: 1.9 - 4.8
FT4 [FT4] 1.23 ng/dl Reference: 0.8 - 1.8
TPO [TPO-AK] 343.0 U/ml Reference: <= 35 | this is called in english antibodies against thyroid peroxidase
CAL1 [Calcitonin] 1.1 pg/ml Reference: <= 20

All her other blood values are good

She tooked T4 from 2010 to 2012, in 2012 she got diagnosed with colon cancer,
got chemo therapy and defeated the cancer and didn't took the T4 since she got diagnosed in 2012.

As you can clearly see the "antibodies against thyroid peroxidase" are way too high
I myself and my mother don't have so much knowledge in this topic
and my mother's doctor says she dont need any therapy, but we cannot believe that.

On top of this she tooks everyday 2.5mg Disoprolol and 10mg Amlodipine for blood pressure

We hope that you can help us with this problem, if you have any recommendations please tell us c:
thank you !
 

tara

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Hi,
Congratulations to your mother on defeating the cancer . :)
Has your mother measured body temps and resting heart rate a few times? This can give a bit more information about how the overall metabolic rate is going.
TSH of 1.8 looks a bit high but not extreme.

Do you want to tell something about what and how much she is eating?
 
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peatpower

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hi tara c:

she measures her blood pressure every morning,
and i telled her that she measure her body temperature and resting heart rate from tommorow on.

she eats three to four times a day, mainly like this:

breakfast:
half slice of bread with grass feed butter, salami and cheese
half slice of bread with grass fed butter and jam/marmalade
1 cup of black tea with milk

Lunch:
100-150g fish / chicken / beef with noodles / rice / potato
1 cup of black tea with milk

Dinner:
150-200g fish / chicken / beef with noodles / rice / potato and salad
1 cup of black tea with milk

thru the day maybe an apple or an orange or some cookies

she can't eat more without gaining immediately weight
 
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peatpower

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Hi messtafarian,

She's fine, thank you.
Some days she feels ill, but not so often, once per month she gets a big migraine headache.

She feels warm all day up to 6pm where she starts to feel realy cold and have to wear an extra jacket,
from 10pm she feels so cold that she must cover her up in a blanket (the extra jacket still on).

She can't wear anything around the neak and loses her voice often in a day and have to clear her throat many times too.

This is all that comes to my mind
 

LucH

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peatpower said:
post 114946 if you have any recommendations please tell us c:
thank you !
Hi, I'd read : The thyroid madness [highlight=yellow]II[/highlight] - Chapter 7
The Hashimoto’s Autoimmune Thyroid Disease
By Jeffrey Dach MD


Excerpt:
THE ROLE OF SELENIUM AND HYDROGEN PEROXIDE
The thyroid gland has a high selenium content due to selenoproteins (glutathione peroxidases) which protect the cells from oxidative damage associated with hydrogen peroxide production needed for thyroid hormone biosynthesis. (51)
Iodination of thyroglobulin is the key step of thyroid hormone biosynthesis. It is catalyzed by thyroid peroxidase and occurs within the follicular space at the apical plasma membrane. (52-54) Hydrogen peroxide generating enzymes are also found at this same location, at the villous apical membrane of the thyrocyte just within the follicular lumen (52-54) Both enzyme systems are needed for the organification of iodine to thyroglobulin proteins. Various thyroid pathologies, including Hashimoto’s thyroiditis can be explained by overproduction and lack of degradation of hydrogen peroxide (H202) causing damage to the thyrocyte structures. (55,56) (184)

See also misinformation about iodine
 

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messtafarian

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I think I might partially agree with your mother's doctor.

Dr. Peat does not believe that antibodies really exist the way they've been explained by modern medicine. He believes these proteins are there to clean up the mess after damage to any tissue -- but sometimes the "antibody" identified is really cross-reacting with a different "antibody" -- for example the TPO antibody often cross-reacts with the antibody produced when cartilage is damaged. But the antibody itself is not attacking tissue, it's clearing away debris from former damage. So I think you should not be so concerned about the number.

Things Peat recommends to support the thyroid are also things he recommends for cancer. He would recommend a progesterone supplement (natural, not synthetic), avoidance of ALL polyunsaturated fats, adequate protein, and sugar. He would probably also suggest aspirin therapy as this stops the release of fatty acids into the bloodstream which just cause more damage as your mother continues to recover.

Her other thyroid numbers look good. I assume she is supplementing thyroid. If she is feeling cold in the evenings she could try a little extra T3 or other warming-up things like aspirin plus a coffee.

I think supporting and encouraging strong thyroid function ( including taking thyroid) is all she needs to do.
 

goodandevil

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Did she have throat problems before the beta blockers? Im very skeptical of beta blockers, and they're antithyroid. They always made me depressed and lethargic. Maybe she could try something else for blood pressure and see what happens. Hope she feels better
 
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peatpower

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Thank you all, tara, LucH, messtafarian and goodandevil c:

@ LucH: I gonna read The "Hashimoto’s Autoimmune Thyroid Disease" by Jeffrey Dach MD on the weekend, thank you for this pdf.

@ messtafarian: thank you for your recommendations and Dr. Peats view on atibodies,
I talked with my mother and she wants to start a Peat style diet.
She barely gets 1400 kcal to 1800 kcal a day, how should she transition in to a more peat influenced diet ?
I telled her that she have to avoid all polyunsaturated fats and get an adequate number of protein and sugar and she want to follow this recommendations, but she fears that she would gain weight on such a diet.

She is currently on no thyroid medications.

How much aspirin a day would you recommend for her ?
And how much progesterone ?
Any pregnenolone or dhea ?

@ goodandevil: She had her throat problems long time before she started to take beta blockers,
I telled her that she should try something differnt and she agrees with it.
And she only takes the beta blocker if their is need to do, eg when her blood pressure is very high.
 

Giraffe

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peatpower said:
post 115123 How much aspirin a day would you recommend for her ?
And how much progesterone ?
Any pregnenolone or dhea ?
Hormones are prescription drugs in Germany. Pregenenolone (a prehormone) is available over the counter. Peat mentioned that 1 g aspirin is enough to get a systemic effect. If your mother decides to take aspirin daily, it is better to supplement some vitamin K2.
 
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CoolTweetPete

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peatpower said:
post 115123 Thank you all, tara, LucH, messtafarian and goodandevil c:

@ LucH: I gonna read The "Hashimoto’s Autoimmune Thyroid Disease" by Jeffrey Dach MD on the weekend, thank you for this pdf.

@ messtafarian: thank you for your recommendations and Dr. Peats view on atibodies,
I talked with my mother and she wants to start a Peat style diet.
She barely gets 1400 kcal to 1800 kcal a day, how should she transition in to a more peat influenced diet ?
I telled her that she have to avoid all polyunsaturated fats and get an adequate number of protein and sugar and she want to follow this recommendations, but she fears that she would gain weight on such a diet.


She is currently on no thyroid medications.

How much aspirin a day would you recommend for her ?
And how much progesterone ?
Any pregnenolone or dhea ?

@ goodandevil: She had her throat problems long time before she started to take beta blockers,
I telled her that she should try something differnt and she agrees with it.
And she only takes the beta blocker if their is need to do, eg when her blood pressure is very high.

This is an understandable concern and something many of us share; However, it would seem that restoring health would be of a higher priority in this instance. I myself gained weight when adopting a Peat-style diet (initially just avoiding PUFA, adequate carbohydrate, avoiding grains) but the difference in how I felt both mentally and physically were well worth a few extra pounds.

We are all on a journey toward small, daily improvements to our health, which hopefully leads us back to a state where weight manages itself with a healthy metabolism.
 
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peatpower

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@ Giraffe: Thank you and I want my mother to taper her aspirin intake slowely up, as I myself did it in the past.
Additionally my mother can get dhea and progesterone easily prescribed or we could buy them from the UK, so if it would have benefits we would buy and use them.

@ CoolTweetPete: Thank you for your insight and experience and your nice words, I will tell it my mom c:
 

messtafarian

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:). ha peatpower I was just looking at your mother's diet and it's already very Peat!

It's true, eating more calories might mean she gains weight in the beginning. But her body needs the calories to improve her metabolism. This is how our bodies get energy for healing processes starting from the inside out. Most people do gain about 15 pounds at first, but the health benefits are worth it.

Many people who do Peat give up bread and replace it with fruit, because starch can escape the gut and make trouble. This could be something to try, but really avoiding polyunsaturated fat is the first most important thing. Adding just a bit more tropical fruit will add the sugar, plus calories and vitamins. Adding milk to the tea with sugar will add some protein and some calories too. It can be milk without fat.

I would stick with the progesterone for now unless your mom can at some point get her hormones tested. Experimenting with hormones isn't as dangerous as some people think but adding too many can get confusing.

Otherwise -- what Giraffe said! Taking a gram a day is about average for general health.
 

tara

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I am not a medical professional not an expert of any related kind. But I have some thoughts.

Diet:
Not sure of the quantities your mother is eating, but I'm wondering if it may be a bit short on some minerals that could be better supplied with more fruits/juices and vegetables? Some of us use cronometer com or similar to get a rough idea of what we are getting from our food. Peat talks about the importance of getting (and retaining) enough of several minerals - major ones like calcium, magnesium, potasium, sodium, and minor ones like zinc, copper, selenium. Probably others are also important.

Liver is a rich source of several nutrients, including vit-A, so a serving of liver a week or a smaller amount more often can be a way to improve nutrition. Oysters are particularly rich in zinc, so if you have access to them. Peat generally recommends salting food to taste.

Peat ususally recommends about 80-100g protein form most hypothyroid folk. He also recommends balancing the amno acids in muscle meat with more gelatinous joints or suppplemental gelatine (or collagen hydrolysate for those who find it easier to digest).

Peat has pointed to several ways that polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) are anti-metabolic, and recommends minimising consumption of them as far as practically possible. He has also pointed out that very low PUFA intake seems to be protective against cancer. Eg. Favour coconut oil and milk fat and beef and lamb which tend to be more saturated, over seed oils and oily fish and chicken and pork, which are usually more unsaturated.

Some plants contain some specific anti-thyroid chemicals - eg. raw cabbage and other brassicas, soya beans. So probably good to not make these major daily foods.

Peat often recommends a raw grated carrot salad, with a little olive oil and vinegar, as part of helping to rebalance hormones. Raw carrot fibre is apparently good at helping to remove some of the excess estrogen and endotoxin in the gut before it can be (re)absorbed into the system.

Other than minimising PUFA and soy, I wouldn't make a sudden complete change, and I wouldn't recommend she persist in trying to force food that she doesn't enjoy (though trying things a few times or in differnt ways can make a difference). But it might be worth experimenting with swapping out some of the bread or cookies for more fruit or juice, and maybe consider adding a little well-cooked greens and/or the broth from cooking greens, and some liver, oysters and other shell fish, and gelatin in some form. And see how it goes - not everyone fares well with the same foods, or even the same food as they thrived on previously. Major changes in diet can take a bit of adjustment, and it can be helpful to notice how foods affect one.

Weight/fat/calories:
If she gains weight on 1800 cals, I think that is another indicator of lowish metabolism. If the metabolism can be improved, she may want more than this. 1400-1800 does not generally provide enough energy for most people to run a healthy metabolism. There are different ideas about how best to address this - eat more and more nourishing food and hope it stimulates improved metabolism, or improve metabolism by improved quality of food and other tactics, and let calorie intake increase in step with metabolism. I'm currently inclined to think it may depend on what the causes are of the low metabolism. I would hope that somewhere along the line the appetite and metabolism demand more.
There are no guarantees about not gaining fat - some do.

Aspirin:
I think Peat has said that about 200-300mg/day is a reasonable amount for many people for general health, and that sometimes people have taken more for a period to good effect for particular conditions. I think cancer may be one of those conditions.
If taking aspirin regularly, vit-K is important - there is some in leafy greens, some kinds of cheese, liver, maybe otehr sources, or else supplement. Both aspirin and vit-K can affect blood clotting, in opposite directions.

Thyroid hormones:
There may be a case for some supplemental thyroid at some stage. I tend to favour getting nutrition up first. Peat says most people who need thyroid supps do best with T3:T4 ratio between 1:4 and 1:2. He tends to favour TSH closer to the bottom of the range considered 'normal' by most drs.

Other possible factors to consider are getting enough regular sunlight, or in winter supplemental red light (there are threads on this), and maintaining good CO2 levels, eg by checking for good breathing habits - relaxed nasal and diaphragmatic - and other tactics.

If you haven't yet started reading/listening to Peat's articles and interviews, I'd recommend them. Everyone here interprets and uses Peat's ideas a bit differently, and it's worth getting some perspectives from the man himself. (If you find his articles challenging, it's not just you.:))
www.raypeat.com
viewforum.php?f=18
 
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peatpower

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@ messtafarian
Thank you, I telled my mother that she from now on have to avoid PUFA's and
that she should eat more tropical fruits and add more milk to her tea daily.
I will buy some progesterone, is their any you can recommend and how much she should use ?
I will make an appopintment with an endocrinologist for my mother next week to check her hormine values.

@ tara
I eat a peat-style diet myself and use cronometer daily, I will tell my mother to do also.
Is chicken liver ok to use ? and is it ok to have such an carott salad with every meal a day ?
Should she take the aspirin with her meals or/and between them ? I have many of the so called "baby aspirin without other bad ingredients at home.
I will search for yome oysters and buy some chicken legs and ox-tail. Is beef shank ok to use for gelatin intake ?
Does cheese from grain feed cow's milk contain pufa's or just fsa's and mufa's ? Because they maybe get feed with soy and corn.
Is low fat, grain feed, cow's milk ok to drink or should it be avoided for same reasons as cheese ?
I will read more about supplemental red light and breathing habits.
thank youu tara c:
 

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