Has Ray turned vegan? How is he doing?

[GreekDemiGod]

One thing I realized that completely eliminating vegetables is not the way to go. They add variety and can sometimes feel refreshing/ energizing when eating them infrequently and in small quantities.
I ate some greens with tomatoes, beans and sea salt, a bit of coconut oil and it was good on my taste buds, but I won't eat it everyday.
And it did felt like it was filling a nutritional void, like I'm getting my nutrients/ vitamins refilled.

I'm really skeptical of the claim that cooked leafy greens and raw tomatoes are harder on the gut than starch.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I am currently in Geogia, the state in Eastern Europa, their nurtrition is heavily based on starches ( meet as well to be true ); all the young people are very slim, very fit looking, but people at around 35+ or so all carry lots of visible body fat with them; sure could be because of meet or many other factors but I remember Ray saying that while he was traveling Eastern Europe he noticed that people in heavy starch eater countrys are more fat.

I am in Eastern Europe too and it's common knowledge that past the age of 30, it's getting much harder to stay slim and people pack on weight. People just assume that's the way things goes. Almost all men over 55 have a pot belly/ beer gut.
I think it's the years of PUFA accumulation, combined with slowing down of metabolism. And also combining starch with high fat, that does the most damage in regards to weight gain.

 

[BrianF]

So this Ray Peat guy is basically perceiving certain things and then ruminating on these observations and having thought about them is then acting upon these conclusions in attempt achieve better outcomes?

What a fraud!

 

[LLight]

Perceive, think, eat cauliflower.

I have nothing against vegetables but from what I understand, this is in direct contradiction with his previous advices?

Or has the cauliflower science deeply evolved recently? Or even protein restriction ?

 

[conrad0602]

Perceive, think, eat cauliflower.

I have nothing against vegetables but from what I understand, this is in direct contradiction with his previous advices?

Or has the cauliflower science deeply evolved recently? Or even protein restriction ?

It does contradict his previous advice. I'm guessing he has changed his views somewhat since writing "vegetables.. who defines food". Previously viewing them as famine foods with lots of problems, but now believing them to be beneficial. I find well cooked veg (except potatoes) to be easy going on the gut and provide good energy. A balance of fruit and veg seems to work best.

 

[YourUniverse]

Perceive, think, eat cauliflower.

I have nothing against vegetables but from what I understand, this is in direct contradiction with his previous advices?

Or has the cauliflower science deeply evolved recently? Or even protein restriction ?

He talks about keeping the metabolism running well based on pulse, temperature, and feel. He's talked about the thyroid suppressing effects of vegetables. He's noted that a higher carb, lower protein, lower fat diet improves his thyroid. It may be that the carbs allow him to eat more greens and feel just as good. I dont understand the fixation with trying to prove Ray wrong, or find chinks in his armour of some kind.

 

[sunny]

Peat has often talked about eating the fruits and vegetables that need to be eaten for their seeds to be spread - and not eating those that have defenses against being eaten, like leaves.

He mentioned in the interview, and in the June interview with Patrick where they talked about his protein reduction also- that he seemed to be more sensitive to thyroid hormone with less protein. He said pretty much everyone after 50 has less need for protein because you have achieved adult size and maturity. You are building less, and just needing protein for repair.

As for liver, he seemed to have a preference for chicken liver over beef - maybe just for the taste - but said organic chicken liver had been very hard to find so they weren't eating it very often. Not that he chose to not eat it- just that it was in short supply.

The fact that he is in his 80s and presumably only taking thyroid, Progest-e, aspirin, and maybe some other steroids hormones is pretty impressive imo. He seems to have not seen a doctor for most of his life. He seems of sound mind.

If he is making adjustments for his age, it is probably with sound reasons, and is probably a model for anyone as they age.

 

[YourUniverse]

Peat has often talked about eating the fruits and vegetables that need to be eaten for their seeds to be spread - and not eating those that have defenses against being eaten, like leaves.

Yes, he's talked about eating leaves for years, he talks about their pitfalls (thyroid suppressive effects) and how to overcome them (somewhat rigorous cooking). He seems to give the most attention to the foods with the fewest pitfalls, with the broadest availability, and especially to the ideal conditions of the body's metabolism

 

[LLight]

I dont understand the fixation with trying to prove Ray wrong, or find chinks in his armour of some kind.

I think there is especially an obsession of proving that he is always right. He is also praised for the consistency of his views.

I also change my mind often, and I don't think it's a big issue, but I'm also not really influencing people who have health issues.

 

[Tash]

I think there is especially an obsession of proving that he is always right. He is also praised for the consistency of his views.

I also change my mind often, and I don't think it's a big issue, but I'm also not really influencing people who have health issues.

100%

 

[SamYo123]

I am in Eastern Europe too and it's common knowledge that past the age of 30, it's getting much harder to stay slim and people pack on weight. People just assume that's the way things goes. Almost all men over 55 have a pot belly/ beer gut.
I think it's the years of PUFA accumulation, combined with slowing down of metabolism. And also combining starch with high fat, that does the most damage in regards to weight gain.

Durianrider 44, ripped af, low pufa, low fat, high starch n high fruit n sucrose

 

[YourUniverse]

I think there is especially an obsession of proving that he is always right. He is also praised for the consistency of his views.

I also change my mind often, and I don't think it's a big issue, but I'm also not really influencing people who have health issues.

Could be, but where's he been wrong? And though my post was in reply to yours my comments about fixation on finding faults were in general.

 

[Green Dot]

Peat has mentioned before that an ideal diet would be high in carbs and low in protein and fat if I'm recalling correctly.

 

[conrad0602]

I think there is especially an obsession of proving that he is always right. He is also praised for the consistency of his views.

I also change my mind often, and I don't think it's a big issue, but I'm also not really influencing people who have health issues.

?

 

[Sefton10]

From what I understand heme iron is far more potent and concentrated, and more easily assimilated and absorbed than non-heme iron. But I’m not an expert.. are you saying they are the same? Would be interested if you have any studies analysing it..
Regardless, I’m not eating many legumes atm

I’ve no view on whether they’re the same. I’ve been eating a lot of lentils in recent months. They’re pretty much a superfood in my view with the current climate of rising food prices etc. You can buy even organic in bulk and they’re essentially free on a per meal basis. Easy to soak and sprout at home to eliminate many of the anti-nutrient issues. Filling, tasty, a protein source, and relatively nutritious. There’s evidence legumes have been in the human diet for a long time too: Beans, Lentils, and the Paleo Diet

 

[Ritchie]

I’ve no view on whether they’re the same. I’ve been eating a lot of lentils in recent months. They’re pretty much a superfood in my view with the current climate of rising food prices etc. You can buy even organic in bulk and they’re essentially free on a per meal basis. Easy to soak and sprout at home to eliminate many of the anti-nutrient issues. Filling, tasty, a protein source, and relatively nutritious. There’s evidence legumes have been in the human diet for a long time too: Beans, Lentils, and the Paleo Diet

Yes lentils are great, very low in methionine and tryptophan while being high in glycine and all the other good aminos, easily digested when well cooked, super low fat content. All in all an excellent protein and energy source, they contain decent amounts of selenium, copper, folate and niacin as well.

 

[Ritchie]

One thing I realized that completely eliminating vegetables is not the way to go. They add variety and can sometimes feel refreshing/ energizing when eating them infrequently and in small quantities.
I ate some greens with tomatoes, beans and sea salt, a bit of coconut oil and it was good on my taste buds, but I won't eat it everyday.
And it did felt like it was filling a nutritional void, like I'm getting my nutrients/ vitamins refilled.

I'm really skeptical of the claim that cooked leafy greens and raw tomatoes are harder on the gut than starch.

The entire time i've been aware of Peat I've never felt comfortable eliminating veges.. The brief periods that I tried I felt off. They definitely add alot to the diet, and my suspicion is that Ray is discovering this again now. Leafy greens in particular are a staple for me, and Peat has actually always talked highly of them, especially kale and rocket (arugula). As far as the starch goes, I find it really easy to digest as long as it's well cooked and doesn't contain gluten.

 

[JCastro]

is milk inflammatory too or just whey? what makes whey inflammatory is it the tryptophan

Casein, if you have autoimmunity or are prone to leaky gut. That is if you believe in autoimmunity, which Ray doesn't.

Basically a vegan diet; since he eats oats, too it is not so far away from "The starch solution".
Strange

It's an important point that Peatarians (not all) ridicule any advocate of carnivore or keto diets when they reintroduce some carbs as proof that Ray is right about everything and that carnivores and keto people are wrong and stupid. Now that Ray has shown he is fallible, changed his habits, and is not a 100% consistent oracle, people are destabilized and anxious with that realization. Ray has always been anti-Platonism and reductionism, pro-Heraclitean and holism, meaning there is no stasis, conditions always change, context always matter, etc. but the ideology formed around his research became a static, rigid, incomplete, myopic, reductionist system.

The entire time i've been aware of Peat I've never felt comfortable eliminating veges.. The brief periods that I tried I felt off. They definitely add alot to the diet, and my suspicion is that Ray is discovering this again now. Leafy greens in particular are a staple for me, and Peat has actually always talked highly of them, especially kale and rocket (arugula). As far as the starch goes, I find it really easy to digest as long as it's well cooked and doesn't contain gluten.

I'm not denying that he has talked highly of leafy greens, but he's definitely warned against them before. In one Jodellefit interview (sometime in 2019-2020), he describes an experiment where he placed lettuce in a plastic bag with some acids (I forget which) to stimulate a human stomach. Then he checked it later and found the lettuce rotted and brown/black, which he used as reasoning that it does similar things when eaten and therefore should generally be avoided.

 

[Gadsie]

Casein, if you have autoimmunity or are prone to leaky gut. That is if you believe in autoimmunity, which Ray doesn't.


It's an important point that Peatarians (not all) ridicule any advocate of carnivore or keto diets when they reintroduce some carbs as proof that Ray is right about everything and that carnivores and keto people are wrong and stupid. Now that Ray has shown he is fallible, changed his habits, and is not a 100% consistent oracle, people are destabilized and anxious with that realization. Ray has always been anti-Platonism and reductionism, pro-Heraclitean and holism, meaning there is no stasis, conditions always change, context always matter, etc. but the ideology formed around his research became a static, rigid, incomplete, myopic, reductionist system.

I am admittedly also experiencing this anxiety. For years I was drinking close to a gallon of (skim) milk per day. It was largely a convenience/laziness thing, as I didnt need to do any cooking etc. I figured; hey it’s low PUFA, has almost all required nutrients, and it’s peat approved. Only a couple of months ago, when I had to undergo appendectomy for appendicitis, I started re-evaluating my habits. Not saying the appendicitis was related to my diet but it was a humbling moment; I was confronted with the fact that my low PUFA diet did not make me immortal.

Now that I’m reading that Peat has a lot of nuances, I feel a bit guilty towards myself. Have I done a lot of harm to myself by going on extremes? At the same time, peat has talked about many of these nuances before, for example about certain beneficial compounds found in veggies. I don’t think it’s necessarily that Peat did a 180 on his diet, but sometimes people (including myself) don’t look further than the surface, and forget about all the nuances peat has always talked about.

 

[JCastro]

I am admittedly also experiencing this anxiety. For years I was drinking close to a gallon of (skim) milk per day. It was largely a convenience/laziness thing, as I didnt need to do any cooking etc. I figured; hey it’s low PUFA, has almost all required nutrients, and it’s peat approved. Only a couple of months ago, when I had to undergo appendectomy for appendicitis, I started re-evaluating my habits. Not saying the appendicitis was related to my diet but it was a humbling moment; I was confronted with the fact that my low PUFA diet did not make me immortal.

Now that I’m reading that Peat has a lot of nuances, I feel a bit guilty towards myself. Have I done a lot of harm to myself by going on extremes? At the same time, peat has talked about many of these nuances before, for example about certain beneficial compounds found in veggies. I don’t think it’s necessarily that Peat did a 180 on his diet, but sometimes people (including myself) don’t look further than the surface, and forget about all the nuances peat has always talked about.

I think your reassessment of things shows maturity and intelligence. I have repeatedly implemented his dietary advice over 6 years with varying results, sometimes detrimental. Increasing nuance, combining his ideas with your own experience, and adjusting everything according to what's helping you vs. harming you is the best way to go, as opposed to forcing a universalized template onto individual situations with specific needs (which I think is unfortunately encouraged and tends to happen in online communities/guru-type paradigms).