Has anyone really lowered rt3?

hei

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I stopped taking thyroid (cynomel) at the end of March and got a blood test about 6 weeks later to give the thyroid time to clear out.
Thyroid output seems ok but my reverse T3 is now 445pmol/L.
1653534083568.png

1653534226714.png

At the start of 2020 my rt3 was at 334pmol/L. So it has gone up despite using progesterone, pregnenolone, milk, orange juice, thyroid, etc, for two years.
When I take T3 alone I still get a bit of an arrhythmia.

Is there actually any way to get out of this hole?
 

supercoolguy

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Ive noticed Irrergular heat beat with pregnenolone. Many times in context of the same batch. 6yrs ago, Around 200-300mg I think.
 

sunny

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RT3 comes from T4. I am, and have been trying g to lower mine, it is currently 14 on scale of 8-25. It was 17. For context, I do not have a thyroid. I am beginning to accumulate references by Peat to what may cause it, other than the obvious excess T4. I found a reference to it on a Politics And Science interview - "Caused mostly by high cortisol and stress hormones- minute 23:54 - ps, fund raiser, part2" . However, I had a Dutch test and the mentioned hormones are ok.
 

FitnessMike

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I stopped taking thyroid (cynomel) at the end of March and got a blood test about 6 weeks later to give the thyroid time to clear out.
Thyroid output seems ok but my reverse T3 is now 445pmol/L.
View attachment 37194
View attachment 37195
At the start of 2020 my rt3 was at 334pmol/L. So it has gone up despite using progesterone, pregnenolone, milk, orange juice, thyroid, etc, for two years.
When I take T3 alone I still get a bit of an arrhythmia.

Is there actually any way to get out of this hole?
I'm in the same basket.

Despite all the good supplements that numb the stress response, prog/dhea/preg/inosine/taurine/diet/b complex/magnesium/gelatine etc etc still liver is struggling with convertion.

What I'm thinking right now at this moment is, that either our livers are compromised/damaged from long term hypothyroidism, to were overweight and there is excess fat in there.

I will be trying 2mg of t3 3 times a day from tomorrow i think, but when i tried only t3 and this way i hope my liver will improve to some degree.

where did you get this test from?
 
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hei

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@FitnessMike my liver function tests are always normal, this supposed bad liver function seems to be something immeasurable. All the same stuff is supposed to be beneficial for livers anyway.
The test came from some lab in Australia.
 

FitnessMike

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@FitnessMike my liver function tests are always normal, this supposed bad liver function seems to be something immeasurable. All the same stuff is supposed to be beneficial for livers anyway.
The test came from some lab in Australia.
normal you mean what were the digits? <20?

are you overweight?

maybe there is some damage/sludginess that enzymes won't show, how long have you been hypothyroid for?
 
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VitoScaletta

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RT3 comes from T4. I am, and have been trying g to lower mine, it is currently 14 on scale of 8-25. It was 17. For context, I do not have a thyroid. I am beginning to accumulate references by Peat to what may cause it, other than the obvious excess T4. I found a reference to it on a Politics And Science interview - "Caused mostly by high cortisol and stress hormones- minute 23:54 - ps, fund raiser, part2" . However, I had a Dutch test and the mentioned hormones are ok.
Do you take T3 or only T4?
 
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hei

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@FitnessMike I don't know, just normal. This is an old one from 2020 and I was hypothyroid then. I don't have the current one because it went to my doctor but nothing has ever come back abnormal.
1653570208220.png
I was probably hypothyroid for a long time but five years ago was the last time I was able to lose fat or gain a bit of muscle, so perhaps it really got worse after that.
 

FitnessMike

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@FitnessMike I don't know, just normal. This is an old one from 2020 and I was hypothyroid then. I don't have the current one because it went to my doctor but nothing has ever come back abnormal.
View attachment 37203
I was probably hypothyroid for a long time but five years ago was the last time I was able to lose fat or gain a bit of muscle, so perhaps it really got worse after that.
yea man i dont see any other option to start t3 very low doses and slowly increase, but i know that eventually i start to wake up and not being able to fall back asleep early morning if i don't take any t4 at all eventually, so my plan is to go as long on t3 to clean the rt3 and then if i have to add like half drop of tyromix a and retest rt3 then.

you can find some people's experiences like this on the forum

"I never got long-term positive results from t3 until I started with 2mcg doses 3 times a day, and then slowly increased it to 4-5mcg. That final dose for a few weeks was enough to get rid of most of my problems."

" I do think that t3 supplementation is the best way out of hypothyroidism and degenerative liver diseases, but for a lot of people the initial dose must be very small and well balanced until the liver and other tissues had time to regenerate a little."
 

OLLNX

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I stopped taking thyroid (cynomel) at the end of March and got a blood test about 6 weeks later to give the thyroid time to clear out.
Thyroid output seems ok but my reverse T3 is now 445pmol/L.
View attachment 37194
View attachment 37195
At the start of 2020 my rt3 was at 334pmol/L. So it has gone up despite using progesterone, pregnenolone, milk, orange juice, thyroid, etc, for two years.
When I take T3 alone I still get a bit of an arrhythmia.

Is there actually any way to get out of this hole?
These do not tell you much, actually. Free T3 and free T4 do not make much sense. But since most doctors are just brainwashed monkeys, they still push those tests. Total T3/T4 and reverse T3 can more or less show you the current status of your thyroid. But even that is just a snapshot.
 

FitnessMike

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These do not tell you much, actually. Free T3 and free T4 do not make much sense. But since most doctors are just brainwashed monkeys, they still push those tests. Total T3/T4 and reverse T3 can more or less show you the current status of your thyroid. But even that is just a snapshot.
yea but my ft3/ft4 looks very similar like his while having high rt3 too
 

OLLNX

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yea but my ft3/ft4 looks very similar like his while having high rt3 too
Many events can affect your TSH and reverse T3. Intense workout session the day before the test or catching a minor cold can do that. In my opinion, one should not rely on these tests. After all, they are just a quick snapshot in time. I think, measuring parameters such as your pulse, body temperature in the morning and after meal, and achilles tendon reflex would give you more reliable picture. Keep in mind, labs can mess things up too. This is why more or less intelligent doctors do not rely on just one test, They will order another one and then another one. To make sure everything is correct
 

FitnessMike

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no bowels/ ruined sleep /low pulse etc are main indications for me - tests are just confirmations innit
 

aliml

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D2 (DIO2) is the enzyme that converts T4 into T3. It works by removing an iodine molecule from T4. In fact, T4 is named so because it contains 4 iodine atoms. Once an iodine is removed, T4 becomes T3 [3].
D3 (DIO3) is the enzyme that converts T4 into rT3. D3 also removes an iodine molecule from T4, but at a different location than D2 [3].
There is a third enzyme called D1 (DIO1) that is able to convert T4 into both T3 or rT3. However, the exact role of D1 in the body is unclear [3].

Causes of High Reverse T3​

1) Low T3 Syndrome​

Low T3 syndrome is a condition that causes abnormal levels of T3 and T4. It is also known as euthyroid sick syndrome or non-thyroidal illness syndrome.
Unlike other thyroid disorders, this condition is not caused by impairment of the thyroid gland. Instead, low T3 syndrome is mostly due to changes in the balance of thyroid hormone enzymes, transporters, and receptors [11, 6].
One important change is a decrease in D1 and an increase in D3, which reduces T4 conversion into T3. While it’s not fully understood how this happens, inflammation likely plays a big part [11].
Low T3 syndrome usually leads to [11]:
  • Low T3
  • High rT3
  • Low to normal T4
  • Normal TSH
However, thyroid hormone level changes can vary greatly, depending on the root cause of the syndrome [11].
A common cause of low T3 syndrome is critical illness. Almost all patients in the intensive care unit have some form of thyroid hormone imbalance. It is also associated with many chronic illnesses [11, 6].
All of the following conditions may cause low T3 syndrome, potentially leading to high rT3 levels:
It’s not entirely clear why low T3 syndrome occurs, but many theorize it may be the body’s natural response to serious illness. By altering the balance of thyroid hormones, the body can slow its metabolism and conserve energy.
However, studies also suggest long periods of this thyroid hormone imbalance may lead to negative effects on the heart, recovery time, and overall health [6, 12, 24].

2) Iron Deficiency​

Iron deficiency and low ferritin may increase rT3 levels, according to two Iranian studies examining adolescent girls. One of the studies with 103 participants suggests that restoring iron levels to normal may bring rT3 levels back down to normal. Therapy included both iron and iodine [26, 27].
Additional clinical studies are lacking, but animal research has found similar results. In rats, iron deficiency increased rT3 while decreasing T3 and T4 [28].

3) Aging​

There is evidence that rT3 levels may naturally rise with age. Observational studies have found that elderly people have slightly elevated rT3 levels [10, 29].
It’s not exactly clear why this happens, but it may have to do with kidney and liver health. Kidney and liver function diminishes with age. According to some researchers, the elderly may metabolize and clear out rT3 more slowly, resulting in higher levels [4, 29].
Also, illness and malnutrition are more common in the elderly. These factors are linked to higher rT3 levels as well [4, 29].

4) Fetal Development​

Thyroid hormones play a crucial role in fetal development [30, 31].
Interestingly, rT3 levels in the fetus are relatively high while T3 is usually low [30, 31].
This occurs because the concentration of D3 (the enzyme that converts T4 into rT3) is also very high in the fetus and the placenta [30, 31].
Why does this happen?
According to some researchers, high D3 levels help protect developing infants from excess thyroid hormones [30, 31].
This is important because a considerable amount of T4 and T3 is transferred from the mother to the fetus. High levels of D3 may be needed to inactivate excess T4 into rT3, to ensure proper development [30, 31].
The mother’s rT3 levels should not be affected by this process. However, pregnancy can increase the body’s demand for thyroid hormones, often leading to hypothyroidism [30].

5) Medications​

Certain medications may increase rT3, including:
  • Levothyroxine (Synthroid), a synthetic form of T4 [32]
  • Amiodarone, used to treat irregular heartbeat [33]
  • Dopamine, used to maintain blood pressure during severe illness [34, 35]
  • Cimetidine (Tagamet), used for heartburn [36]
  • Dexamethasone, an anti-inflammatory [37]
  • Enflurane or halothane, used for anesthesia [38]
  • Propranolol (Inderal), used for high blood pressure and irregular heartbeat [39]
  • Propylthiouracil, a drug used to treat high levels of thyroid hormones (hyperthyroidism) [40]

6) Liver Disease​

The liver is responsible for converting T4 to T3. More specifically, liver cirrhosis has been linked to high rT3, low T3, and low T4 levels. The more severe the liver damage, the more these values tend to drift from the normal range. Other chronic liver diseases, such as fatty liver and hepatitis, were not associated with high rT3 [7, 41].

7) Other​

Some other potential causes of high reverse T3 include:
  • Hyperthyroidism in the elderly [42]
  • Hypothyroidism in children [43]
  • Anorexia [44]
  • Heat exposure, such as excessive sauna use [45]
  • Kidney failure [46]
  • Cancer including brain, breast, lung, colon, and liver cancers [47, 48, 49, 50, 51]
  • Genetic defects of the thyroid [52, 53, 54]
Progesterone may increase the activity of D3 (the enzyme that converts T4 into rT3).
D3 expression was significantly induced by progesterone.
 

sunny

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Do you take T3 or only T4?
I take both. Again, I don't have a thyroid so it is always a balancing act. I am currently taking just a quarter of cynoplus at night, then cynomel the rest of the day. Everyone has RT3, from my reading and understanding you just want it at the bottom of the lab range. Stop the thyroid madness has some good info on it, also the post above hS alot of good info. Reverse T3 (also called Reverse Triiodothyronine) - Stop The Thyroid Madness
 

Spartan300

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Where smaller T3 doses have helped where larger doses haven't is the mechanism for this understood?
 
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hei

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Progesterone may increase the activity of D3 (the enzyme that converts T4 into rT3).
That's a bit of a worry if it's actually not pro-metabolic

Many events can affect your TSH and reverse T3. Intense workout session the day before the test or catching a minor cold can do that. In my opinion, one should not rely on these tests. After all, they are just a quick snapshot in time. I think, measuring parameters such as your pulse, body temperature in the morning and after meal, and achilles tendon reflex would give you more reliable picture. Keep in mind, labs can mess things up too. This is why more or less intelligent doctors do not rely on just one test, They will order another one and then another one. To make sure everything is correct
I don't really have an achilles reflex
The public health insurance pays for one thyroid test every two years, so I definitely don't want to keep paying for tests just to look for a result that says I'm not hypothyroid when I already have other symptoms that indicate I am.
How many cals do you eat? And are you well-fed throughout the day?
I cut back to about 2000-2500 because I was too fat
 

FitnessMike

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Where smaller T3 doses have helped where larger doses haven't is the mechanism for this understood?
big doses are unpsychological and as a result, deactivated by the liver but works for some peoples which doesn't make sense
 

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