Has Anyone Out There Healed Their Type 2 Diabetes Using The Peatarian Diet?

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ANDREW CHIN

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Would 80 10 10 fruititarian style diet work for type 2 diabetes then?

Folks on the 80/10/10 diet may sometimes do well in the short-term in their overall health, but they usually develop dental issues or neurological issues long-term. For most, the diet is deficient in protein and fat-soluble vitamins. There is a fair amount of minerals, supplied esp. by the greens in the diet, but greens tend to be high in anti-nutrients as well. I have heard from a former health coach that he knew two people who healed their Type 2 diabetes with the 80/10/10 diet, but they were both in the 20s. However, I believe most of the people who tried it didn't get there. The Peatarian approach would likely be a more effective approach.
 

sevenzy

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Folks on the 80/10/10 diet may sometimes do well in the short-term in their overall health, but they usually develop dental issues or neurological issues long-term. For most, the diet is deficient in protein and fat-soluble vitamins. There is a fair amount of minerals, supplied esp. by the greens in the diet, but greens tend to be high in anti-nutrients as well. I have heard from a former health coach that he knew two people who healed their Type 2 diabetes with the 80/10/10 diet, but they were both in the 20s. However, I believe most of the people who tried it didn't get there. The Peatarian approach would likely be a more effective approach.


Good to know. Are there any effective ways to get anti nutrients out of greens? Boil them to oblivion in a soup??
 
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ANDREW CHIN

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Good to know. Are there any effective ways to get anti nutrients out of greens? Boil them to oblivion in a soup??

Yes, Ray Peat suggests cooking them very well. Kate Deering in her book states that cruciferous veggies need to be cooked half an hour in order to significantly reduce the level of goitrogens.

You could also make a mineral broth by cooking the veggies throughly with a little garlic and salt. The liquid will be light green in color. You probably won't absorb much calcium if the veggies have oxalates - the goosefoot family (spinach, chard, beet greens, lambsquarters, and amaranth greens) is high in this particular compound - but you'll absorb the Mg, vitamin K and B vitamins.
 

TibRex

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Good to know. Are there any effective ways to get anti nutrients out of greens? Boil them to oblivion in a soup??
Perhaps steaming them is better? A little [remaining] oxalate, phytate, lignan, saponin, phenolic shouldn't hurt too much ... ouch! If you're eating dried beans and peas, pulses, oats, mung, soy, etc. soak them for a few hours or even overnite - remember to throw away the water.
 
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TibRex

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I'm also curious, there's a lot of talk in here that avoiding carbs is bad, but for now I don't see any better treatment than keto (obviously it's not a cure).

I read about this chap who stuck to paleo for yrs and minimizing carbs. Eventually, he confessed, he felt like sh** and looked like hell. He junked the diet and started going back to carbs and felt, for the second time in his life, sane and good !
 

TibRex

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Hello Everyone,
I've read interviews where Andrew and Sarah Johannesen Murray have been able to 'manage' Type 2 diabetes in their patients using the Peatarian approach.

My question is whether anyone has been able to truly heal Type 2 diabetes using this approach. I'm not merely talking about dropping the A1c below 6.5, but actually healing the condition by regenerating their lost beta cells. Further, how would one measure this? Is there a test that quantifies the number of beta cells in the pancreas?

T2 don't really have an issue with beta cells unlike T1. Most T2's actually have too much insulin hence the development of insulin resistance. It's been claimed that eventually they'll transitioned to type 1 as the beta cells get exhausted from churning out insulin as the feedback loop or signaling system in unable to do its job properly. I suspect the locus of the problem lies in the liver, not the pancreas, in the case of T2.

If you want to tackle type 1 which I assume you have, go for the botanical Gymnema sylvestre which is famous for regenerating beta cells but you'll have to supplement for at least 6 months for it to work satisfactorily. Otherwise, supplement with camel milk - it contains high amounts of natural insulin which survives stomach acids, etc. Some claimed that it helped lower BG in T2's but I've not experienced that unfortunately.

No - niacin or niacinamide, aspirin, coconut oil, caffeine, Vitamin E, and all the other Peatarian recommendations haven't lowered on my BG - I do respect his work and great depth of research on fatty acids, etc.
 

TibRex

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I don't know how I would be able to tell whether I've regenerated beta cells, but my fasting blood glucose was 147 when I started this, a year later 120 and several months ago it was 88, and I'm eating more sugar than ever.

Hi, I am curious - what exactly did you do to achieve the 88 mark. Could you provide details ... was there a specific diet [Peatarian?] involved?
 

Dino D

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I’ve worked with people who have. For a few weeks blood sugar is high then it falls. And it’s fixed. High carb low fat. Very low fat for awhile. Niacinamide or aspirin. Voila.
Sorry. I dont belive that.
Thats to simple, such ,,news' would explode, studys would prove, and soon everybody would start doing it and the diabetic ,,problem" would go away...
 

Rosie

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Well, people heal from type 2 diabetes following the Gerson therapy, which is high carb, low protein and close to no fat.
 
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ANDREW CHIN

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T2 don't really have an issue with beta cells unlike T1. Most T2's actually have too much insulin hence the development of insulin resistance. It's been claimed that eventually they'll transitioned to type 1 as the beta cells get exhausted from churning out insulin as the feedback loop or signaling system in unable to do its job properly. I suspect the locus of the problem lies in the liver, not the pancreas, in the case of T2.

If you want to tackle type 1 which I assume you have, go for the botanical Gymnema sylvestre which is famous for regenerating beta cells but you'll have to supplement for at least 6 months for it to work satisfactorily. Otherwise, supplement with camel milk - it contains high amounts of natural insulin which survives stomach acids, etc. Some claimed that it helped lower BG in T2's but I've not experienced that unfortunately.

No - niacin or niacinamide, aspirin, coconut oil, caffeine, Vitamin E, and all the other Peatarian recommendations haven't lowered on my BG - I do respect his work and great depth of research on fatty acids, etc.


I personally don't have diabetes, Type 1 or Type 2. I'm just interested in the topic, that's all.

I believe it depends on how long one has had Type 2 diabetes, which is an idea you echoed above. Over time, it seems that an individual with Type 2 loses beta cells/beta cell functionality.

From Ray Peat's perspective, he would likely claim PUFAs poison the beta cells, and that sugar combined with PUFAs initiate the Randall Cycle (Randall Effect), leading to insulin resistance. I don't believe he's ever claimed the overproduction of insulin leads to insulin resistance.
 

TibRex

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I personally don't have diabetes, Type 1 or Type 2. I'm just interested in the topic, that's all.

I believe it depends on how long one has had Type 2 diabetes, which is an idea you echoed above. Over time, it seems that an individual with Type 2 loses beta cells/beta cell functionality.

From Ray Peat's perspective, he would likely claim PUFAs poison the beta cells, and that sugar combined with PUFAs initiate the Randall Cycle (Randall Effect), leading to insulin resistance. I don't believe he's ever claimed the overproduction of insulin leads to insulin resistance.

No, I don't remember Peat linking insulin resistance with excessive insulin output. It actually came from mainstream medical research. One medical doctor I met told me the same and said that many people are unaware that T2 diabetics produces too much insulin and are unable to respond to their own insulin, which suggests an autoimmune mechanism at work. This could the reason why T2 diabetics respond to extraneous insulin but not their own. What do you think?

Peat did say that PUFAs inhibit glycolysis and that that leads to a rise in BG.
 
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ANDREW CHIN

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No, I don't remember Peat linking insulin resistance with excessive insulin output. It actually came from mainstream medical research. One medical doctor I met told me the same and said that many people are unaware that T2 diabetics produces too much insulin and are unable to respond to their own insulin, which suggests an autoimmune mechanism at work. This could the reason why T2 diabetics respond to extraneous insulin but not their own. What do you think?

Peat did say that PUFAs inhibit glycolysis and that that leads to a rise in BG.

IMO, I'm not so sure true autoimmunity really exists. I've heard it's mainly American scientists who believe in autoimmuity. Outside the US, this belief is not as common. It might be immunity, as opposed to autoimmunity. Perhaps what's actually going on is that the PUFAs are somehow damaging the beta cells of the pancreas. The insulin produced by the beta cells carries this marker, which activates the immune system. I don't know how much research has been done in this area. My guess is not much. :)

Here's an interesting article on LADA, or Latent autoimmune diabetes in adults.
Latent autoimmune diabetes in adults (LADA): What is it?
 

lampofred

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Hi, I am curious - what exactly did you do to achieve the 88 mark. Could you provide details ... was there a specific diet [Peatarian?] involved?

I think it was mainly due to daily aspirin (2 325 mg), high dose vitamin K (at first Thorne K2, but then I felt like I needed K1, so I started taking 2.6 mg of Super K for every 2 aspirins), and a large amount of coffee daily, probably averaging around 10 cups a day. I also donated blood a few times, which probably got rid of a lot of iron and other toxins.

Diet was just 0 PUFA, lots of OJ and milk, and occasional potatoes, rice, meat, eggs. Just standard Peat stuff.
 

Dino D

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I think it was mainly due to daily aspirin (2 325 mg), high dose vitamin K (at first Thorne K2, but then I felt like I needed K1, so I started taking 2.6 mg of Super K for every 2 aspirins), and a large amount of coffee daily, probably averaging around 10 cups a day. I also donated blood a few times, which probably got rid of a lot of iron and other toxins.

Diet was just 0 PUFA, lots of OJ and milk, and occasional potatoes, rice, meat, eggs. Just standard Peat stuff.
I Cant tolerate milk, liquids coffee, and so much aspirin...
Many people cant, i know its ,,peaty" but i dont see how this can be the way to go for most of the people...
Many people need meat, starch, no coffee no dairy... what should those people do... sip milk and coffee?
 
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Well, people heal from type 2 diabetes following the Gerson therapy, which is high carb, low protein and close to no fat.

What keeps people from curing their diabetes is that blood sugar spikes for awhile and people ate scared of that. This passes after a few weeks.
 

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schultz

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No - niacin or niacinamide, aspirin, coconut oil, caffeine, Vitamin E, and all the other Peatarian recommendations haven't lowered on my BG - I do respect his work and great depth of research on fatty acids, etc.

Did you go very low fat? 10g per day or lower?

Sorry. I dont belive that.
Thats to simple, such ,,news' would explode, studys would prove, and soon everybody would start doing it and the diabetic ,,problem" would go away...

Not necessarily IMO. Most people don't have the ability to go very low fat because they don't know what that is. If you gave a person instructions like "eat high carb, low fat" they would probably continue eating 60-100g of fat per day thinking they were low fat. Maybe more. I don't have much faith in normal people being able to consistently keep their fat very low.

As far as research goes, it depends on what you define as "low fat". When I see research saying low fat, that usually means (to the researchers) something like 30% of your calories come from fat, like this clinical trial below. 30% of the diet as fat is like 80g of fat on a 2,500 calorie diet. How in the *bleep* is that a low fat diet?

Effects of an energy-restricted low-carbohydrate, high unsaturated fat/low saturated fat diet versus a high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet in type 2 di... - PubMed - NCBI
A total of 115 adults with T2D (mean [SD]; BMI, 34.6 [4.3] kg/m2 ; age, 58 [7] years; HbA1c, 7.3 [1.1]%) were randomized to 1 of 2 planned energy-matched, hypocaloric diets combined with aerobic/resistance exercise (1 hour, 3 days/week) for 2 years: LC: 14% energy as carbohydrate, 28% as protein, 58% as fat (<10% saturated fat); or low-fat, high-carbohydrate, low-glycaemic index diet (HC): 53% as CHO, 17% as protein, 30% as fat (<10% saturated fat).

Here is another example...

A low-carbohydrate as compared with a low-fat diet in severe obesity. - PubMed - NCBI
The subjects assigned to the low-fat diet received instruction in accordance with the obesity-management guidelines of the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute,7 including caloric restriction sufficient to create a deficit of 500 calories per day, with 30 percent or less of total calories derived from fat.

In the latter study the actual % number for fat in the two groups was Low-carb diet: 41% of calories from fat, Low-fat diet: 33% of calories from fat. Hardly a difference. IMO they are both high-fat lol.

I Cant tolerate milk, liquids coffee, and so much aspirin...
Many people cant, i know its ,,peaty" but i dont see how this can be the way to go for most of the people...
Many people need meat, starch, no coffee no dairy... what should those people do... sip milk and coffee?

What happens when you drink milk?

You could sip leaf broths and OJ. What about cheese? I don't think people need meat and starch, they just like meat and starch. I do too.
 

Cirion

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A "need for meat and starch" is a "need for salt". IMO. All of my research seems to be pointing towards this, that I've been doing the last 6 months now. I just need to prove this hypothesis at this point, which is going to require me to heavily salt my sugar drinks... arg. LOL. Most people don't heavily salt sugar (understandably so, I am having trouble doing this too, it's gross) and since salt is as important as sugar in hypothyroid, by eating sugar alone you find you get massive salt cravings (disguised as meat/starch cravings).
 

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