Has Anybody Cured Their Depression?

[Dopamine]

I am just wondering if anybody on here has been seriously depressed and overcome it? If so how did you do it? I've been feeling rather hopeless lately as I seem to be getting worse despite my best efforts. Thanks in advance.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I have had some temporary depression here or there.

I am reminded of Julian Simon, who was a great man, a professor, who was always severely depressed until he discovered some cognitive stuff that changed everything and from then on he was always in a good mood.

I believe that cognitive work is ESSENTIAL. I can't reccomend this work book highly enough:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572243678/

It is based on the fact that cognitive behavioral therapy works, but it turns out that it's mostly the Behavioral part that really works, so Behavioral Activation is kind of a post-CBT method that works much better.

 

[Dopamine]

I have had some temporary depression here or there.

I am reminded of Julian Simon, who was a great man, a professor, who was always severely depressed until he discovered some cognitive stuff that changed everything and from then on he was always in a good mood.

I believe that cognitive work is ESSENTIAL. I can't reccomend this work book highly enough:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572243678/?tag=rapefo-20

It is based on the fact that cognitive behavioral therapy works, but it turns out that it's mostly the Behavioral part that really works, so Behavioral Activation is kind of a post-CBT method that works much better.

That book looks really interesting! Thanks a lot I will check it out.
I've read a book on CBT before but never got anything out of it. It talked mostly about changing your thoughts and mindest to be less negative. I like the idea of focusing more on the behavioral aspects though.

 

[dookie]

I am just wondering if anybody on here has been seriously depressed and overcome it? If so how did you do it? I've been feeling rather hopeless lately as I seem to be getting worse despite my best efforts. Thanks in advance.

It is interesting how you think about depression, from your question it already sounds like you think it is difficult to overcome. In such situations, I think it is good to do some sporadic thing, to prove to your brain that the depression state is "a lie", "temporary" and "easy to overcome". For example, taking a single dose of a powerful pro-dopamine, anti-serotonin thing could prove curative in several cases. I've heard of people getting over their depression with a single LSD trip, although not sure how safe that is. Have you tried high dose caffeine (coffee and coca cola) for a few days? Agmatine is a safe chemical used for depression; 100 mg/day and higher (I've used it in several grams per day). Basically experiment around with some chemicals, taking the safest ones first, and then stopping once the depression has lifted (which may happen in a day or two). Then if it comes back, re-take whatever supplement worked with least side-effects. Coffee has the best safety record - try 10 cups of coffee in a day, and see if you are able to "be depressed"

 

[Constatine]

Yes when I was young I was hopelessly depressed, had BDD, and was half blind yet I cured all my conditions (but it was a very difficult journey). For depression increased dopamine levels is not the way to go. Increased dopamine receptor sensitivity is a large factor of feeling well. To do this avoid electronic stimulation especially porn. Porn is the single most devastating poison for our modern day lives. It down regulates dopamine receptors so much that it can leave you passionless and anhedonic with just one session. Video games and social media are other forms of electronic stimulation that should be minimized for better dopamine function. Masturbation should also be avoided as it down regulates androgen receptors in the brain as well as dopamine receptors. Try Nofap in combination with other methods. Sex in general does this and thus should not be over done. Another thing you should try to increase dopamine receptors is sunlight exposure (I think early morning and midday is the best).
The other major factor in depression is androgen levels and brain androgen receptor densities. In my experience androgens are more responsible for emotional stability than dopamine. Dopamine is obviously responsible for pleasure but pleasure and emotional stability are not akin. For this I recommend giving your "rat" 5-ar derivatives like those provided by @haidut. DHT specifically will help rework your brain in the long term for reduced depression (decreases certain receptors and increases other receptors in the brain for more masculine emotional stability). But androgens alone won't help you if you are lacking in brain androgen receptor density. The best way to increase brain androgen receptor density is abstinence from sex or masterbation. What I would do in your case is abstain for a month and then only have sex 3 times or less a week (do what feels best). Aside from abstinence tribulus is the only substance I know of that increases androgen receptor density in the brain but I'm sure there is more. But I'm pretty sure tribulus has estrogenic activity but you might as well try it.
One of the most difficult ways towards happiness and dopamine receptor upregulation is learning to be bored. Just sit in your room, look out the window, and do nothing but be bored. This is a special form of meditation that truly connects you with your emotions.
Also be sure to have a surplus of calories and walk every day.

 

[DaveFoster]

I agree that porn is remarkably harmful.

@Dopamine

Have you tried topical DHEA and pregnenolone? The stereotypical alpha male is depression's great enemy.

Androgens in general are stimulating and dopaminergic; here is the key, I think. Caffeine also raises DHT and progesterone, and nicotine also directly raises DHT. (You know this already.)

Raising GABA is important as well, as well as balancing the opioid system.

An outlet and purpose is key as well. Relationships are a good thing; romantic interactions are not nominal. Regular sex and pair-bonding is very powerful in the long-run.

Peat recommends coffee, naltrexone, and serotonin antagonists for depression. (Caffeine functions as a sero. antagonist as you know.)

 

[Dopamine]

It is interesting how you think about depression, from your question it already sounds like you think it is difficult to overcome. In such situations, I think it is good to do some sporadic thing, to prove to your brain that the depression state is "a lie", "temporary" and "easy to overcome". For example, taking a single dose of a powerful pro-dopamine, anti-serotonin thing could prove curative in several cases. I've heard of people getting over their depression with a single LSD trip, although not sure how safe that is. Have you tried high dose caffeine (coffee and coca cola) for a few days? Agmatine is a safe chemical used for depression; 100 mg/day and higher (I've used it in several grams per day). Basically experiment around with some chemicals, taking the safest ones first, and then stopping once the depression has lifted (which may happen in a day or two). Then if it comes back, re-take whatever supplement worked with least side-effects. Coffee has the best safety record - try 10 cups of coffee in a day, and see if you are able to "be depressed"

I have had many bad trips on mushrooms that have terrified me and maybe caused some PTSD though the aftermath has some antidepressant effects for a few days for sure. LSD has been mostly positive in small doses/microdoses but doesn't really seem to be a long term solution and the idea of it still kind of scares me because of my terrifying experiences with mushrooms. I don't know whether it's psychologically healthy for me so I tread carefully now.

Caffeine is interesting. I have had my depression completely lifted in the past from coffee but it is hard to replicate. Coffee is hit or miss for me- sometimes I feel it makes my insomnia and anxiety worse but sometimes in the past it has totally cured my depression and anxiety. The antidepressant effects may depend on tolerance or something... I have taken breaks from coffee and still have insomnia and anxiety so maybe it is not as causative as I think.

Phenibut cures my depression and anxiety but is addictive and tolerance builds fast.

I think coffee may be the way to go I just have to experiment more with offsetting the adrenergic effects through theanine or niacinamide maybe. Nicotine (electronic cigarettes) + caffeine is an even stronger antidepressant but I don't know whether chronic nicotine consumption increases cortisol and adrenaline.

Anyways thanks for the thoughts. I will experiment some more with coffee I think.

 

[Simonsays]

If its deep seated, psychotherapy of some sort should be attempted. Its not a quick fix im afraid and not cheap.

CBT is more behavioural in trying to get you to think about things differently or act differently, which is fine up to a point, but often doesnt get to the crux.

Why do i feel like this?

A lot of people are depressed, but dont realise it. Are you in touch with all your emotions, can you express them freely. Thats a clue.

To do this avoid electronic stimulation especially porn. Porn is the single most devastating poison for our modern day lives. It down regulates dopamine receptors so much that it can leave you passionless and anhedonic with just one session. Video games and social media are other forms of electronic stimulation that should be minimized

This is classic " freeze "respone to C-PTSD.

Another is "flight" . These are peole who only get depressed if they aint doing/workoholics/exercising, literally running away from their pain, rather than confronting it. They get addicted to the adrenaline/dopamine response, so its really just a temporary fix, like drink/drugs/gambling/sex/food etc.

Despite what some on this forum might say, about Freud being "authoritarian " the ultimate RPF put down, Ray Peat is an advocate of psychotherapy.

Good luck

 

[InChristAlone]

The depression is getting worse or your health is getting worse thus you feel hopeless about that? Make sure you aren't experiencing erratic blood glucose. Also coffee is recommended to increase dopamine but when I first started back on it I must have been getting low blood glucose as I'd have these periods of feeling really low for no apparent reason. I'm not someone to feel depressed so I thought it was weird. But food usually fixes the problem. It was my first signal that my BG was falling. But if this is a persistent low mood then maybe your thyroid is low. People will suddenly feel happy when taking thyroid. Not that I recommend just using thyroid before making sure you are eating enough.

 

[Constatine]

I have had many bad trips on mushrooms that have terrified me and maybe caused some PTSD though the aftermath has some antidepressant effects for a few days for sure. LSD has been mostly positive in small doses/microdoses but doesn't really seem to be a long term solution and the idea of it still kind of scares me because of my terrifying experiences with mushrooms. I don't know whether it's psychologically healthy for me so I tread carefully now.

Caffeine is interesting. I have had my depression completely lifted in the past from coffee but it is hard to replicate. Coffee is hit or miss for me- sometimes I feel it makes my insomnia and anxiety worse but sometimes in the past it has totally cured my depression and anxiety. The antidepressant effects may depend on tolerance or something... I have taken breaks from coffee and still have insomnia and anxiety so maybe it is not as causative as I think.

Phenibut cures my depression and anxiety but is addictive and tolerance builds fast.

I think coffee may be the way to go I just have to experiment more with offsetting the adrenergic effects through theanine or niacinamide maybe. Nicotine (electronic cigarettes) + caffeine is an even stronger antidepressant but I don't know whether chronic nicotine consumption increases cortisol and adrenaline.

Anyways thanks for the thoughts. I will experiment some more with coffee I think.

Taking coffee with a lot of calories will buffer the stress response. Taking coffee with l-theanine and a lot of calories would be even better. L-theanine also has some impressive stand alone antidepressant activity. I'm sure you know more about nicotine than me but I wouldn't take it chronically, only acutely. If phenibut cured your depression then enhancing androgens is indeed the way to go as they are a primary modulator of gaba activity.

 

[member 2106]

Raising GABA is important

What are the best ways of doing this?

Alcohol and benzodiazepines, in small doses, crush my anxiety and, sometimes, depression, but obviously I want to find healthier, equally effective ways of doing this. I believe both of the above are technically GABA agonists.

 

[Dopamine]

Yes when I was young I was hopelessly depressed, had BDD, and was half blind yet I cured all my conditions (but it was a very difficult journey). For depression increased dopamine levels is not the way to go. Increased dopamine receptor sensitivity is a large factor of feeling well. To do this avoid electronic stimulation especially porn. Porn is the single most devastating poison for our modern day lives. It down regulates dopamine receptors so much that it can leave you passionless and anhedonic with just one session. Video games and social media are other forms of electronic stimulation that should be minimized for better dopamine function. Masturbation should also be avoided as it down regulates androgen receptors in the brain as well as dopamine receptors. Try Nofap in combination with other methods. Sex in general does this and thus should not be over done. Another thing you should try to increase dopamine receptors is sunlight exposure (I think early morning and midday is the best).
The other major factor in depression is androgen levels and brain androgen receptor densities. In my experience androgens are more responsible for emotional stability than dopamine. Dopamine is obviously responsible for pleasure but pleasure and emotional stability are not akin. For this I recommend giving your "rat" 5-ar derivatives like those provided by @haidut. DHT specifically will help rework your brain in the long term for reduced depression (decreases certain receptors and increases other receptors in the brain for more masculine emotional stability). But androgens alone won't help you if you are lacking in brain androgen receptor density. The best way to increase brain androgen receptor density is abstinence from sex or masterbation. What I would do in your case is abstain for a month and then only have sex 3 times or less a week (do what feels best). Aside from abstinence tribulus is the only substance I know of that increases androgen receptor density in the brain but I'm sure there is more. But I'm pretty sure tribulus has estrogenic activity but you might as well try it.
One of the most difficult ways towards happiness and dopamine receptor upregulation is learning to be bored. Just sit in your room, look out the window, and do nothing but be bored. This is a special form of meditation that truly connects you with your emotions.
Also be sure to have a surplus of calories and walk every day.

Wow that gives me hope that things can get better. thank you.

I haven't watched porn for years after learning of the problems associated with it. I have made it on nofap until about 25 days several times but I always doubt myself whether masturbation is an issue or whether i'm fooling myself and I end up relapsing. I always find a way to justify a relapse because i'm not 100% convinced of the science behind abstaining and I figure why not? Abstaining increases my confidence and reduces social anxiety I guess I just need to stick with it...

Learning to be bored shouldn't be a problem. I dropped out of university and quit my job so I just sit on the couch all day now. My parents want me to see a doctor but I figure they will just suggest SSRI drugs or some other bull****.

Taking coffee with a lot of calories will buffer the stress response. Taking coffee with l-theanine and a lot of calories would be even better. L-theanine also has some impressive stand alone antidepressant activity. I'm sure you know more about nicotine than me but I wouldn't take it chronically, only acutely. If phenibut cured your depression then enhancing androgens is indeed the way to go as they are a primary modulator of gaba activity.

I take coffee with milk/ice cream and sugar after a meal and sometimes add theanine. I'm still not sure if its causing stress. Sometimes I get jittery. My dad drinks like 5 cups a day (black) with no problems... I don't get it.

 

[Dopamine]

I agree that porn is remarkably harmful.

@Dopamine

Have you tried topical DHEA and pregnenolone? The stereotypical alpha male is depression's great enemy.

Androgens in general are stimulating and dopaminergic; here is the key, I think. Caffeine also raises DHT and progesterone, and nicotine also directly raises DHT. (You know this already.)

Raising GABA is important as well, as well as balancing the opioid system.

An outlet and purpose is key as well. Relationships are a good thing; romantic interactions are not nominal. Regular sex and pair-bonding is very powerful in the long-run.

Peat recommends coffee, naltrexone, and serotonin antagonists for depression. (Caffeine functions as a sero. antagonist as you know.)

Last time I took pregnenolone (Haiduts Stress-non) it almost gave me a panic attack- not sure why. Methylene blue caused the same symptoms the day before I took the pregnenolone. I'm not sure if it was situational but I probaly won't take either again. My best guess is that the cortisol decreasing actions of both were triggering low blood sugar?

As far as outlets/purpose/stimulating activity- I travelled to Mt. Everest base camp last year and I try to get out and ride my motorbike. They just feel like distractions though because the depression always comes back... sometimes with a vengence

 

[Drareg]

I have had many bad trips on mushrooms that have terrified me and maybe caused some PTSD though the aftermath has some antidepressant effects for a few days for sure. LSD has been mostly positive in small doses/microdoses but doesn't really seem to be a long term solution and the idea of it still kind of scares me because of my terrifying experiences with mushrooms. I don't know whether it's psychologically healthy for me so I tread carefully now.

Caffeine is interesting. I have had my depression completely lifted in the past from coffee but it is hard to replicate. Coffee is hit or miss for me- sometimes I feel it makes my insomnia and anxiety worse but sometimes in the past it has totally cured my depression and anxiety. The antidepressant effects may depend on tolerance or something... I have taken breaks from coffee and still have insomnia and anxiety so maybe it is not as causative as I think.

Phenibut cures my depression and anxiety but is addictive and tolerance builds fast.

I think coffee may be the way to go I just have to experiment more with offsetting the adrenergic effects through theanine or niacinamide maybe. Nicotine (electronic cigarettes) + caffeine is an even stronger antidepressant but I don't know whether chronic nicotine consumption increases cortisol and adrenaline.

Anyways thanks for the thoughts. I will experiment some more with coffee I think.

If phenibut is helping you but not lasting it may be telling us you have methylation issues,a topic that has more research to come but for now we know phenibut and nicotine act as HDAC inhibitors,not quite demethylating,demethylating is more potent and can remove marks from childhood or any trauma.

I have been thinking for a while that hypermethylation in some areas is causing people to not respond to much of what Peat recommends,I think thyroid will be shown to be a spring of sort in relation to methylation,can open and close it with rt3 for example so it's not ideal to get marks off dna if when stressed they pour back on.

Peat sees Co2 as a demethylating factor, he also mentioned the Caine family,procaine etc He recommend procaine for extreme situations,I think he mentioned for burns but also for deep psychological problems.
I think once these marks of excessive methylation are off the dna and you have a new "Peaty" lifestyle they won't go back on unless you are negligent in habit moving forward.

@Pointless has a thread on here about using procaine,what was mentioned sounds similar to phenibut experience but no mention of side effects like phenibut.

 

[Drareg]

I would recommend taurine if you are getting jitters from pregnenolone and the like,taurine sounds more for your situation right now. Theanine at no more than 200 mg for me.

You might just need gaba activity in high stress situations,the gaba will soak up the stress on the surface. Taurine is great here.

 

[Dopamine]

If its deep seated, psychotherapy of some sort should be attempted. Its not a quick fix im afraid and not cheap.

CBT is more behavioural in trying to get you to think about things differently or act differently, which is fine up to a point, but often doesnt get to the crux.

Why do i feel like this?

A lot of people are depressed, but dont realise it. Are you in touch with all your emotions, can you express them freely. Thats a clue.



This is classic " freeze "respone to C-PTSD.

Another is "flight" . These are peole who only get depressed if they aint doing/workoholics/exercising, literally running away from their pain, rather than confronting it. They get addicted to the adrenaline/dopamine response, so its really just a temporary fix, like drink/drugs/gambling/sex/food etc.

Despite what some on this forum might say, about Freud being "authoritarian " the ultimate RPF put down, Ray Peat is an advocate of psychotherapy.

Good luck

I have never expressed my emotions to anybody. Not sure if it's just my personality maybe. This is also the main reason I haven't sought out a doctor or therapist.

 

[Dopamine]

The depression is getting worse or your health is getting worse thus you feel hopeless about that? Make sure you aren't experiencing erratic blood glucose. Also coffee is recommended to increase dopamine but when I first started back on it I must have been getting low blood glucose as I'd have these periods of feeling really low for no apparent reason. I'm not someone to feel depressed so I thought it was weird. But food usually fixes the problem. It was my first signal that my BG was falling. But if this is a persistent low mood then maybe your thyroid is low. People will suddenly feel happy when taking thyroid. Not that I recommend just using thyroid before making sure you are eating enough.

Ya I have mixed feelings about coffee. It can be hard to recognize patterns of whether things are helping or harming you- especially when it rises to the level of an addiction because you become emotionally invested. I try to eat a lot but I really don't know whether it makes much of a difference.

 

[Dopamine]

If phenibut is helping you but not lasting it may be telling us you have methylation issues,a topic that has more research to come but for now we know phenibut and nicotine act as HDAC inhibitors,not quite demethylating,demethylating is more potent and can remove marks from childhood or any trauma.

I have been thinking for a while that hypermethylation in some areas is causing people to not respond to much of what Peat recommends,I think thyroid will be shown to be a spring of sort in relation to methylation,can open and close it with rt3 for example so it's not ideal to get marks off dna if when stressed they pour back on.

Peat sees Co2 as a demethylating factor, he also mentioned the Caine family,procaine etc He recommend procaine for extreme situations,I think he mentioned for burns but also for deep psychological problems.
I think once these marks of excessive methylation are off the dna and you have a new "Peaty" lifestyle they won't go back on unless you are negligent in habit moving forward.

@Pointless has a thread on here about using procaine,what was mentioned sounds similar to phenibut experience but no mention of side effects like phenibut.

Interesting thanks I will look into it more.

I would recommend taurine if you are getting jitters from pregnenolone and the like,taurine sounds more for your situation right now. Theanine at no more than 200 mg for me.

You might just need gaba activity in high stress situations,the gaba will soak up the stress on the surface. Taurine is great here.

I went through 2 bottles of taurine pills and I'm not sure whether they helped or not- hard to say. I love GABA agonists but tolerance seems to build so fast.

 

[Simonsays]

Learning to be bored shouldn't be a problem. I dropped out of university and quit my job so I just sit on the couch all day now.

I have never expressed my emotions to anybody. Not sure if it's just my personality maybe. This is also the main reason I haven't sought out a doctor or therapist.

This is telling. I can totally relate.

Dont try and intellectualise. For example a logical supplement/diet/thyroid approach is the answer, it might help but i think there are more deep seated issues.

Do you fear success? Is it more comforting not to try ? Does it feel safe? Is the outside world a threatening place? I might be depressed but at least i feel secure, my parents will look after me? I dont want to take responsibility for my life? Do i want to grow up? What are my ambitions , do ihave any.? Why cant you express your emotions? What stops you? What would happen if you did?

Are these questions uncomfortable/threatening?

 

[Drareg]

It's disconcerting to think that in the 50's you could get your own place for about 10,000 dollars? Mangers in your average store had houses of good size within 3-4 years of work,bought and owned.
It's strikes me as intelligent what a lot of millenials are doing by using their parents home as a base when you consider living expenses in the west.

Comments like are you afraid of success are part of the stigma and ignorance of the current economic world they live in,it's the baby boomers who are the entitled brats. Millennial listening to this will get depressed quickly,it's important to pen and paper the facts,your generation are getting screwed,you will work harder and longer than the spoiled brats of the baby boom generation and will end up with less.
The level of judgment for the millennials is unheard of in history,they are criticised at every turn because of social media yet the baby boomers claim they are mollycoddled,the baby boomers are the moddy coddled pathological entitled narcissist we are dealing with now,they made this mess worldwide in 50-60 years! Possibly the worst most deluded human generation in history.

Your depression is intellegence manifesting/developing itself. You have ticked most metabolic boxes so it's not entirely that.
Read haiduts posts on how psychologist have changed the definitions of depression for modern times. Be very selective of any baby boom generation advice,they are majority deluded imo.

Speak truthfully as often as you can ,you will feel better for it.