Hand, wrist + finger Pain despite optimal diet

[AdoTintor]

As I sit here typing to you my elbows feel like they are on fire and my fingers and thumbs are also triggered today. Perhaps I exaggerate a little as the pain from RSI is more like a small animal gnawing at your joints, rather than a brick-fell-on-foot pain. You just don't want to work anymore at the computer and whatsmore the pain hangs around in the background even after the computing stops. When I was doing my PhD I used to get a four pack on the way home so I could numb-out.

These days when things flare up its all about trying to get the inflammation down quickly so I can get back to work. I get ice from the supermarket and fill a plant trough with water and ice so I can lay out my arm in that, submerged and elbows unbent. At this point I am in pj's and teeth are brushed as I don't want to use my arms at all once they are iced - straight to bed.

You don't mention localised applications or perhaps I missed it, but I use these as well as global approaches. For example cortinon directly onto thumbs and elbows, DHT or T dissolved in tocovit directly rubbed on is quite powerful. I have a jam jar of water in which is dissolved many asprins for hand dipping to reduce inflamation. Globally, sometimes 20mg of DHT powder aurally before bed seems to reset the arms for the next day.

PS when using androgens I often get depeleted of biotin B7 which feels terrible, who would have thought? Took me ages to figure this out.

 

[freyasam]

The magnesium glycinate from BulkSupplements might (maybe) have a little higher amount of magnesium but maybe not. The balance of the product is glycinate, which is a salt (or ester) of glycine. You can find more about it by searching online.

A very sore throat would certainly get my attention. Have you had a doctor look at your throat? Is it swollen? Inflamed? Do you have silver amalgam fillings in any teeth? Have you ever had any? Do you get dental xrays? Do you have any teeth with a root canal?

Okay thanks for the explanation about the magnesium. I don't understand why it's always so painful on my throat like most other supplements. It definitely seems to be doing something in my gut which causes the throat pain.

I spent several years going to every kind of doctor under the sun. Went to two different ear nose and throat doctors and got scoped. Had an endoscopy. They never found anything. Went to several endocrinologists and they were all worthless. I never found a decent doctor at all so I stopped trying because after a certain point it became traumatizing. They just blame you for health problems that they don't understand. I was already depressed about being essentially disabled in my 30s , 10 years ago, and going to doctors just made it worse. And now I don't have good health insurance anymore anyway.

I don't have any metal feelings or root canal but I have lots of composite fillings. I have had problems with cavities since I was a kid even though I take very good care of my teeth just like everything else! I've had to have x-rays on my teeth because most dentists won't treat you without them. And I figure it's better than having untreated cavities.

You reminded me that I want to try alithiaman. The brand I have has a bunch of bad ingredients in it so I guess I need to order the one from Elliot overturn or whatever his name is.

 

[freyasam]

As I sit here typing to you my elbows feel like they are on fire and my fingers and thumbs are also triggered today. Perhaps I exaggerate a little as the pain from RSI is more like a small animal gnawing at your joints, rather than a brick-fell-on-foot pain. You just don't want to work anymore at the computer and whatsmore the pain hangs around in the background even after the computing stops. When I was doing my PhD I used to get a four pack on the way home so I could numb-out.

These days when things flare up its all about trying to get the inflammation down quickly so I can get back to work. I get ice from the supermarket and fill a plant trough with water and ice so I can lay out my arm in that, submerged and elbows unbent. At this point I am in pj's and teeth are brushed as I don't want to use my arms at all once they are iced - straight to bed.

You don't mention localised applications or perhaps I missed it, but I use these as well as global approaches. For example cortinon directly onto thumbs and elbows, DHT or T dissolved in tocovit directly rubbed on is quite powerful. I have a jam jar of water in which is dissolved many asprins for hand dipping to reduce inflamation. Globally, sometimes 20mg of DHT powder aurally before bed seems to reset the arms for the next day.

PS when using androgens I often get depeleted of biotin B7 which feels terrible, who would have thought? Took me ages to figure this out.

Yeah that sounds about right. It's so hard to make yourself work when it's this painful. It's very depressing to feel trapped in a job that causes you so much pain every single day. I just looked in the mirror and my hands forearms and fingers are super swollen and inflamed. It's crazy we have to keep working like this.

I am a woman and cannot use dht. I was using DHEA orally which seem to help with some symptoms for a while but then stopped. Maybe that was depleting Biotin for me.

 

[freyasam]

I have applied progesterone topically and it never helps at all. I've also tried wrapping it in Saran wrap.

 

[mostlylurking]

Okay thanks for the explanation about the magnesium. I don't understand why it's always so painful on my throat like most other supplements. It definitely seems to be doing something in my gut which causes the throat pain.

I spent several years going to every kind of doctor under the sun. Went to two different ear nose and throat doctors and got scoped. Had an endoscopy. They never found anything. Went to several endocrinologists and they were all worthless. I never found a decent doctor at all so I stopped trying because after a certain point it became traumatizing. They just blame you for health problems that they don't understand. I was already depressed about being essentially disabled in my 30s , 10 years ago, and going to doctors just made it worse. And now I don't have good health insurance anymore anyway.

I don't have any metal feelings or root canal but I have lots of composite fillings. I have had problems with cavities since I was a kid even though I take very good care of my teeth just like everything else! I've had to have x-rays on my teeth because most dentists won't treat you without them. And I figure it's better than having untreated cavities.

You reminded me that I want to try alithiaman. The brand I have has a bunch of bad ingredients in it so I guess I need to order the one from Elliot overturn or whatever his name is.

I have a long history of food (sometimes even a sip of water) getting stuck in my throat. It hurts really bad when it happens. So I can identify with your plight. Food stopped getting stuck in my throat when I started taking high dose thiamine. But your issue is different from mine and may entail something else entirely.

I'm with you about doctors. I finally found a good endo; he's 85+, remembers how Armour thyroid med used to work, and has 50+ years experience. Now he's being hounded by Medicare for prescribing natural desiccated thyroid as they have it labeled as a "dangerous drug". So I don't anticipate having him as my doctor for much longer. Sob.

It is my understanding that some people can be allergic to some composite filling materials. There are tests to determine which composites are compatible for you. I don't know a lot about it. Here's some info I just found: Dental Material Compatibility Testing - Biological Dentistry | Natural Dentistry CT

Dental xrays are pretty dangerous. They can affect your throat, including your thyroid. They will also hit your brain. oops. You can refuse them. I always decline them. Then the dentist has me sign a waiver that they keep on file. I think it has to do with their state licensing.

I tried some of Elliot Overton's excipient free TTFD thiamine. I reacted badly to it, probably because I was low glutathione. One of the recommendations from Elliot is to take thiamine hcl for a while which will bring up glutathione. It did do that for me. But now I'm in the habit of just taking the thiamine hcl.

 

[dreamcatcher]

I have applied progesterone topically and it never helps at all. I've also tried wrapping it in Saran wrap.

It was concluded that RA can be cured completely or managed well with Ayurveda medicines and Panchakarma without any side effects, whereas non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs and disease-modifying anti-rheumatic drugs cause side effects during the treatment.

Management of Rheumatoid Arthritis through Ayurveda

Rheumatoid arthritis (RA) is an autoimmune chronic inflammatory disorder. As the disease progresses, the inflamed synovium invades and damages the cartilage and bone of the joint. ..

www.omicsonline.org

 

[Ania]

I might try that at some point. I had to work so hard to be able to tolerate the milk! And I've only been drinking milk for a year, but the hand and wrist pain is over 10 years.

But have you ever tried to be totally dairy free - no butter, chees, cream, everything with even trace amount of milk protein. Not just plain milk? I would give it a go if you really suffer.

 

[Ania]

Maybe you would like to read more about my case here

Rheumatoid Arthritis Managed With Fruit And Protein Diet

Hi everybody on this forum, I've been lurking here for a long time. I've decided to write a post about my condition in case it might be useful for some in similar situation. I've suffered from excruciating joint pain since I was. 17 (I am 47 right now). For many years the attacks were...

raypeatforum.com

 

[dreamcatcher]

Yeah that sounds about right. It's so hard to make yourself work when it's this painful. It's very depressing to feel trapped in a job that causes you so much pain every single day. I just looked in the mirror and my hands forearms and fingers are super swollen and inflamed. It's crazy we have to keep working like this.

I am a woman and cannot use dht. I was using DHEA orally which seem to help with some symptoms for a while but then stopped. Maybe that was depleting Biotin for me.

You could go to India and have a panchakarma treatment in an Ayurvedic hospital. It takes about 6 weeks. I did that too in 2006.

 

[freyasam]

I have a long history of food (sometimes even a sip of water) getting stuck in my throat. It hurts really bad when it happens. So I can identify with your plight. Food stopped getting stuck in my throat when I started taking high dose thiamine. But your issue is different from mine and may entail something else entirely.

I'm with you about doctors. I finally found a good endo; he's 85+, remembers how Armour thyroid med used to work, and has 50+ years experience. Now he's being hounded by Medicare for prescribing natural desiccated thyroid as they have it labeled as a "dangerous drug". So I don't anticipate having him as my doctor for much longer. Sob.

It is my understanding that some people can be allergic to some composite filling materials. There are tests to determine which composites are compatible for you. I don't know a lot about it. Here's some info I just found: Dental Material Compatibility Testing - Biological Dentistry | Natural Dentistry CT

Dental xrays are pretty dangerous. They can affect your throat, including your thyroid. They will also hit your brain. oops. You can refuse them. I always decline them. Then the dentist has me sign a waiver that they keep on file. I think it has to do with their state licensing.

I tried some of Elliot Overton's excipient free TTFD thiamine. I reacted badly to it, probably because I was low glutathione. One of the recommendations from Elliot is to take thiamine hcl for a while which will bring up glutathione. It did do that for me. But now I'm in the habit of just taking the thiamine hcl.

Hi mostly lurking, I saw your comments in another Thread about niacinamide and weight loss. Would you say that one needs to have thiamine on board for a month or so before adding in the niacinamide?

The TTFD is tempting to me because I experience improved mental clarity on 25 mg allithiamin but nothing on 2 grams of HCl thiamin.

 

[mostlylurking]

Hi mostly lurking, I saw your comments in another Thread about niacinamide and weight loss. Would you say that one needs to have thiamine on board for a month or so before adding in the niacinamide?

Dr. Costantini wanted his patients to get their thiamine dose optimized before adding other things because he wanted to confirm that the primary problem had to do with thiamine. When I started down the road of following Ray Peat, I was pretty sick (hypothyroidism and rheumatoid arthritis and lead poisoning) and didn't know anything much about supplements. So I would Read Peat articles and if I felt it pertained to me I would write down what he suggested in the article. There's usually a paragraph hidden in each article about what to do to deal with the problem being discussed. So I was already taking a number of supplements (thiamine 100mg, riboflavin 100mg, niacinamide 100mg, etc 2Xday, plus prescription desiccated thyroid) and my health massively improved but then in 2020 I was stricken with thiamine functional blockage from taking Bactrim antibiotic for a UTI that was threatening my kidneys, and I got really sick. I had been following Peat's work for 5 years when that happened to me. So there was never a time during my high dose thiamine experience that I was not supplementing other things.

I think you could go ahead and add 90mg niacinamide 4Xday without causing any problems. The most important thing is to pay attention to what your body is trying to tell you. Things can get confusing if you are adding a bunch of things at once.

The TTFD is tempting to me because I experience improved mental clarity on 25 mg allithiamin but nothing on 2 grams of HCl thiamin.

If you experienced positive results with no negative results from the TTFD then that's probably what you should pursue. I think there are advantages to taking TTFD so long as you don't have negative reactions to it.

 

[teds]

You just don't want to work anymore at the computer and whatsmore the pain hangs around in the background even after the computing stops. When I was doing my PhD I used to get a four pack on the way home so I could numb-out.

I was going to suggest emf- I notice my hands hurt when I hold my phone for too long.. and it lasts for a while after I’ve put it down. Just considering that you may be particularly sensitive to this? Have you ever done some time away from tech? That’s difficult to do nowadays I know bc that’s how we communicate..

 

[cs3000]

I have bad pain in my finger joints, finger tips, wrists, hands, and forearms, and it's making it hard to earn a living.

I take 5,000 IU vitamin d, vitamin k, T3 and a combo thyroid drug (an entire cynomel and 1/4 cynoplus), 900 mg aspirin, cascara sagrada, 100 mg pregnenolone, progesterone, sunlight, and I supplement with B vitamins as the pain is unbearable when I don't do that.

Have you ruled out aspirin allergy / sensitivity to high salicylate foods? I get boiling hot painful toes & finger joints specifically, after taking aspirin. someone mentioned salicylate sensitivity which might fit

 

[freyasam]

I had been suffering from reumatoidalne arthritis for 17 years before I found out by accident that milk was causing it.
Try to eliminate any dairy product icluding butter for a month. If nothing changes you will know it is not the reason. I think it is worth trying. It is not a rare case. During the years of researching it I found many instances of cases like mine.

Hi Ania, I finally read your thread about RA and your meat/fruit diet. I may try that. I was reluctant because it literally took 5 years of struggle to get to where I could drink milk and I'm scared to give that up and lose my milk tolerance... but maybe I should give your type of diet a try. I've been very drawn to fruits lately, and suspect the OJ concentrate I consume may cause problems.

Are you still just eating fruit and meat/eggs? It sounds so simple which is appealing.

 

[angiebb]

Hi Ania, I finally read your thread about RA and your meat/fruit diet. I may try that. I was reluctant because it literally took 5 years of struggle to get to where I could drink milk and I'm scared to give that up and lose my milk tolerance... but maybe I should give your type of diet a try. I've been very drawn to fruits lately, and suspect the OJ concentrate I consume may cause problems.

Are you still just eating fruit and meat/eggs? It sounds so simple which is appealing.

Have you ever had B12 injections?
I don't know why it works but it clears up my carpal tunnel for a 3-6 weeks at a time. I inject subcutaneausly at home myself now seeing it's hard to find a Dr/Nurse that believes it's of any value. Can buy the vials OTC in Australia. I don't know where you're located.
Worth a try?

 

[freyasam]

Have you ever had B12 injections?
I don't know why it works but it clears up my carpal tunnel for a 3-6 weeks at a time. I inject subcutaneausly at home myself now seeing it's hard to find a Dr/Nurse that believes it's of any value. Can buy the vials OTC in Australia. I don't know where you're located.
Worth a try?

Thanks, I've thought about it but with ME/CFS I'm very sensitive to B vitamins and it could possibly send me into a big crash. But I want to try B12 oil which they say is as potent as injections. So many things to try!