"hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantly...

lovelife

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

Charlie said:
Brooder clamp lamp and a BR40 Heat bulb, clear. :)

I'm confused now.. I thought the consensus was that the regular incandescent bulbs fell more in the range of red light you want than the heat lamps?? Am I wrong?
 
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charlie

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

lovelife said:
Charlie said:
Brooder clamp lamp and a BR40 Heat bulb, clear. :)

I'm confused now.. I thought the consensus was that the regular incandescent bulbs fell more in the range of red light you want than the heat lamps?? Am I wrong?

This is an ongoing debate that I do not think will ever be totally settled. :P

Ray Peat suggests the bulb I suggested you. My theory for his suggestion is that there is very little damaging light coming from that bulb. If you go with regular incandescent its moving over into the UV spectrum which is damaging.

Myself, I keep the BR40's going most of the time, and then throw in a 300 watt incandescent intermittently, and then a halogen even less frequently then the others.
 

Ari

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

Just brainstorming here, but aren't these lights just simulating what a fire would do? The moment I stumbled on this red light therapy idea I was reminded of sitting by a campfire.

Or maybe I should ask, wouldn't a fire be beneficial? The most beneficial source of light even (did we evolve around it?) Not like we can have one every night, but that's not my point. My point is, shouldn't we select the bulb that most closely resembles that fire? The one that produces the most heat?

Every time I go against Ray Peats advice I just end up learning the hard way why he is/was right. I think he does extensive testing before putting out any advice.


Also, what do you guys plug in your bulbs into? Most posts say to go for the 'brooder clamp lamps'. Is it possible to put those on the floor? I don't feel like hanging anything up as I want to move the bulb around with me as I move around the house. If not then how do you locate a regular lamp base that can accept these bulbs?
 

jyb

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

Charlie said:
Ray Peat suggests the bulb I suggested you. My theory for his suggestion is that there is very little damaging light coming from that bulb. If you go with regular incandescent its moving over into the UV spectrum which is damaging.

Myself, I keep the BR40's going most of the time, and then throw in a 300 watt incandescent intermittently, and then a halogen even less frequently then the others.

I'm not sure if incandescent (even 500W) has enough UV to worry about? There's a debate about halogen, with some saying the glass makes it safe, but never heard that about incandescent.
 
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j.

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

I don't think incandescent has UV either.
 
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j.

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

Ari said:
Just brainstorming here, but aren't these lights just simulating what a fire would do?
Yes. Candle light color temperature is 2200K. Incandescents typically have color temperature between 2700K and 3000K. CFL bulbs I think 6000K. Dimmed incandescent light might have 2200K, which would make it better than a regular incandescent. I think buying a 130 volt light and using it with a 120 volt socket is like dimming.

The color temperature is computed using the ratio of the blue and red lights of a source. The lower the number, the more red.
 
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j.

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

Ari said:
My point is, shouldn't we select the bulb that most closely resembles that fire? The one that produces the most heat?
I think the best light would resemble fire in the sense that it has a lot of red frequencies and little blue. That's the most beneficial aspect of fire, not the heat or the smoke.
 
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charlie

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

Although not much, yes it does.

UV Spectrum


Incandescent spectrum
 

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j.

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

I think the danger from UV increases with smaller amounts of accompanying red light. Considering that the balance between UV and red light is hugely favorable to red in incadescents, I'll take my chances, so to speak (if I did otherwise, I would risk harm from darkness or the bad aspects of other lights sources, and these tend to be more harmful).
 

Ari

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

j. said:
Yes. Candle light color temperature is 2200K. Incandescents typically have color temperature between 2700K and 3000K. CFL bulbs I think 6000K. Dimmed incandescent light might have 2200K, which would make it better than a regular incandescent. I think buying a 130 volt light and using it with a 120 volt socket is like dimming.

The color temperature is computed using the ratio of the blue and red lights of a source. The lower the number, the more red.

I think the best light would resemble fire in the sense that it has a lot of red frequencies and little blue. That's the most beneficial aspect of fire, not the heat or the smoke.

black3.gif


According to this picture that was posted earlier in this thread (or in one of the other ones) it is tempting to say that incandescent or halogen would be the best based on how they peak in the noted range (the red range), but as you pointed out, we should probably select for the bulb with the least blues.

As far as the heat being beneficial or not, why not? Any external source of heat would allow the body to waste less energy for heat production, instead using it for repair and other things? Just speculating here, don't know for sure.

Of course, AC bills would go up.

I think the danger from UV increases with smaller amounts of accompanying red light. Considering that the balance between UV and red light is hugely favorable to red in incadescents, I'll take my chances, so to speak (if I did otherwise, I would risk harm from darkness or the bad aspects of other lights sources, and these tend to be more harmful).

That's a good point as well, the balance is hugely in favor of the red region in incandescent bulbs. Have you by chance tried heat lamps as well, to be able to comment on the difference that you personally felt? I'm trying to decide what to buy.
 
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j.

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

If anyone is afraid of the seemingly small UV from incandescents, you could use some sort of UV filter.

I bought a filter but because it filters blues, to experiment with getting more pure red light. But that filter happens to filter UV as well.
 
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j.

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

Ari said:
That's a good point as well, the balance is hugely in favor of the red region in incandescent bulbs. Have you by chance tried heat lamps as well, to be able to comment on the difference that you personally felt? I'm trying to decide what to buy.
I use incandescents, but I would go for a heat lamp. In that graph you showed, heat lamps color temperature is only 2400 K. Incandescents of high wattage can sometimes have 3000K, maybe more.
 

Ari

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

j. said:
Ari said:
That's a good point as well, the balance is hugely in favor of the red region in incandescent bulbs. Have you by chance tried heat lamps as well, to be able to comment on the difference that you personally felt? I'm trying to decide what to buy.
I use incandescents, but I would go for a heat lamp. In that graph you showed, heat lamps color temperature is only 2400 K. Incandescents of high wattage can sometimes have 3000K, maybe more.

Interesting.. I will start out with a heat lamp but experiment once I am familiar with the subject. Is it necessary to buy one of those brooder cages? Id rather just put the bulb in some sort of base and turn it on but i'm not sure about matching voltages etc.

The bulb I am looking at is a BR40 130V heat lamp. I know it gets hot as well so i'm not sure how to set it up.
 

Ari

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

If its easier to set up the incandescent bulb i'd rather use one of those. I'm trying to make this as simple as possible
 
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j.

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

Ari said:
As far as the heat being beneficial or not, why not? Any external source of heat would allow the body to waste less energy for heat production, instead using it for repair and other things? Just speculating here, don't know for sure.
I was speaking under the assumption that the room you're in already has a good temperature. If you're cold, I think the heat from bulbs or any source would be beneficial. I guess the point is that light sources such as incandescent lights are uniquely beneficial for the effects the red frequencies have on cellular energy generation, and one seeks to use light when it comes to health typically for that reason, not the heat. But if it helps to warm a cool place, that's a nice benefit too.
 

Ari

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

j. said:
I was speaking under the assumption that the room you're in already has a good temperature. If you're cold, I think the heat from bulbs or any source would be beneficial. I guess the point is that light sources such as incandescent lights are uniquely beneficial for the effects the red frequencies have on cellular energy generation, and one seeks to use light when it comes to health typically for that reason, not the heat. But if it helps to warm a cool place, that's a nice benefit too.

Just thought there was something special or metabolically significant about heat radiation .. sun has it, fire has it, etc.
 

jyb

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

j. said:
If anyone is afraid of the seemingly small UV from incandescents, you could use some sort of UV filter.

I bought a filter but because it filters blues, to experiment with getting more pure red light. But that filter happens to filter UV as well.

What product do you use for a filter?
 
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j.

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

Ari said:
Just thought there was something special or metabolically significant about heat radiation .. sun has it, fire has it, etc.
Incandescent lights produce heat anyway, so I guess the question is irrelevant at the moment, because if getting heat is important, we get it anyway.
 
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j.

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

jyb said:
What product do you use for a filter?
UV amber filter

It doesn't look good. It's just some plastic I put around the bulb, inelegantly, but I'm not married so I don't care.

I only use it occasionally because I wonder if having a light source with barely any blue while looking at the computer screen which has a lot of blue is bad. This is just speculation, but I will wait until I get amber glasses to use the light and the computer at the same time.

EDIT: I guess I have enough plastic to cover the computer screen as well and that way have all lights filtered. Gosh I'm stupid.
 

himsahimsa

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Re: "hamsters exposed to red light at night had significantl

But did they have less stress than animals that were exposed to no light during the usual dark period? Less than blue doesn't necessarily mean better than dark.
 
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