Hair Loss, Grogginess And More - Where The Heck Do I Start?

[Pet Peeve]

Have you read hair like a fox by Danny roddy? It's a peaty book about hair loss he also has a YouTube channel. Working out causes your muscles to burn energy faster than the supply of oxygen, this leads to anaerobe metabolism which produces lactic acid. Lactic acid contributes to baldness and puts your metabolism into a downward spiral. Co2 causes oxygen to realease from bloodcells so you can breath into a bag to increase aerobe metabolism. Aerobe metabolism = glucose + oxygen = energy + co2 = upward spiral.

I workout now and then for my back, good posture looks good and I have to avoid back problems. Ill work the upper body too but only to get the muscles used to getting used, I don't do set after set to exhaustion. I'll do a few repetitions on all groups but not so much that I become exhausted or breathless. A couple of times per week. I honestly don't understand why guys want to spend so much energy on building muscle. The only real reason I can think of is possibly intimidating other guys. Or you want to show off at a beach destination on vacation for a few weeks, but even then you'll feel crappy and lose muscle if you don't have access to a gym at the beach destination. Bleh!

 

[Luckytype]

Talk to me about this bag breathing. Whats a good starting point?

I cant answer for everyone, obviously some people do it for a myriad of reasons, my two primary reasons are for strength and ability since i have a ton of just natural imbalances that make me injury prone(shoulder/back/knee). The second reason it allows me to mentally check out, focus on a task that requires dedication - end result is I can make progress, especially against some seriously challenging stuff each time I walk in. Daily objective progress.

I dont want to look like a modern bodybuilder, its not in my genes anyway regardless of what kind of gear i took.

I do love it, so in time once i figure this hair thing out ill have to find a balance with it.

Thanks for the inputs, seriously appreciated

 

[Evandrojr]

Talk to me about this bag breathing. Whats a good starting point?

I cant answer for everyone, obviously some people do it for a myriad of reasons, my two primary reasons are for strength and ability since i have a ton of just natural imbalances that make me injury prone(shoulder/back/knee). The second reason it allows me to mentally check out, focus on a task that requires dedication - end result is I can make progress, especially against some seriously challenging stuff each time I walk in. Daily objective progress.

I dont want to look like a modern bodybuilder, its not in my genes anyway regardless of what kind of gear i took.

I do love it, so in time once i figure this hair thing out ill have to find a balance with it.

Thanks for the inputs, seriously appreciated

Oh wow, that's a really low Cholesterol level. I'm nowhere near where I want to be, but I've come a long way and I would definitely focus on increasing Cholesterol as they're the base for the androgens. Not to mention that the foods that will provide the cholesterol will also give you all of the important vitamins (that you're currently supplementing) but in whole food for (normally much superior to supps).

 

[Pet Peeve]

There's a lot of info on the forum about bag breathing. There's a separate section about it. I use two cola bottles taped together after an idea from such_saturation. Bicarbonate has some of the same effect. You should get hair like a fox, it's personally approved by peat and works like an intro to peat too.

 

[schultz]

Maybe try one of the Pavel routines. I always liked these, even before knowing about Peat, and feel like they are a sensible way to approach lifting. I always liked the concept of "Grease the Groove". Something like the "Power to the People" routine would be good. It's a strength routine and meant for building strength without size though (not sure what your goals are). If you've been doing hypertrophy type routines the switch to a strength routine might be a nice break anyway.

The Pavel routines really are easier if you have access to your own weights, unless you like the routine of going to some gym.

You could also try things like farmer's walks, sled pushing, rope climbing, etc. I had to jump start my car the other month, basically pushing my car as hard and as fast as I could, then jumping in and starting it.... it was brutal (didn't help that my daughter laughed at me...)! I thought pushing my car back and forth on my driveway would be a pretty good workout. It is only concentric. I've been meaning to get a rope for climbing and do some farmers walks but it's winter and I am not motivated with the weather.

Lastly, I used to do a lot of uphill sprints and always felt like they were a good workout. Sprinting is fun and doing it uphill forces better form and is more concentric.

 

[WestCoaster]

From what you described, the advice seems pretty clear; add more fat (saturated), and add more calories. If you're losing hair, that is almost exclusively related to not enough fat. Many people who actively avoid fat complain about this, and it's usually those who follow a Vegan/Vegetarian diet who suffer the most. If your body temperature is on the low'ish side and your hands and feet are intolerant to cold, you should try simply eating more (which will come with more fat). The less calories you eat, the slower metabolism goes (this has it's advantages, but it's a personal choice whether one can handle the cold intolerance).

If you've started a cut, all be it conservative, then I would definitely wager you've actively cut calories and fat which is a huge no-no. Everyone has been guilty of it (including me), and people need to realize that skinny or shredded isn't necessarily healthy, and nobody can take a CICO style approach to drop weight without consequence. There are many factors at play that will stop the shredding process including metabolism, insulin, Cortsiol (too much exercise & not enough sleep), and Leptin to name a few with Leptin being your biggest adversary. Calorie restrict to much, Leptin sends a signal to your brain basically saying "hey we're starving here", and your brain sends a signal back saying "OK lets eat more to fix this then", and Leptin responds by saying "ok boss, i'm holding onto these fat stores, no more is being released for energy, and I'm going to store additional fat in case we hit another starvation mode". This is where people fail following a calorie restricted approach; whether it be a few months, a year, or a few years down the road. The weight comes back and then some.

How might you use this to your advantage to both shred and stop losing your hair? Take a ketogenic approach with target Peat style carb days approach, or as it's more formerly called "Targate Keto Diet". Reduce your workouts temporarily to about 3 days a week and see how you feel. If you feel like you can handle more, add another day or 2 in. Do a peat style meal on the days you work out, and stick to keto the rest of the time. The fat takes care of the hair loss problem and you can shred at the same time. Do the peat meals on days before you workout to push you through (but you may find it wont be necessary after a while).

 

[Luckytype]

Have you read hair like a fox by Danny roddy? It's a peaty book about hair loss he also has a YouTube channel. Working out causes your muscles to burn energy faster than the supply of oxygen, this leads to anaerobe metabolism which produces lactic acid. Lactic acid contributes to baldness and puts your metabolism into a downward spiral. Co2 causes oxygen to realease from bloodcells so you can breath into a bag to increase aerobe metabolism. Aerobe metabolism = glucose + oxygen = energy + co2 = upward spiral.

I workout now and then for my back, good posture looks good and I have to avoid back problems. Ill work the upper body too but only to get the muscles used to getting used, I don't do set after set to exhaustion. I'll do a few repetitions on all groups but not so much that I become exhausted or breathless. A couple of times per week. I honestly don't understand why guys want to spend so much energy on building muscle. The only real reason I can think of is possibly intimidating other guys. Or you want to show off at a beach destination on vacation for a few weeks, but even then you'll feel crappy and lose muscle if you don't have access to a gym at the beach destination. Bleh!

I have read hair like a fox, thats what actually turned me eventually down the path of finding the forum and made me make my initial diet changes. Its a reasonable, logical and well thought out.

Maybe try one of the Pavel routines. I always liked these, even before knowing about Peat, and feel like they are a sensible way to approach lifting. I always liked the concept of "Grease the Groove". Something like the "Power to the People" routine would be good. It's a strength routine and meant for building strength without size though (not sure what your goals are). If you've been doing hypertrophy type routines the switch to a strength routine might be a nice break anyway.

The Pavel routines really are easier if you have access to your own weights, unless you like the routine of going to some gym.

You could also try things like farmer's walks, sled pushing, rope climbing, etc. I had to jump start my car the other month, basically pushing my car as hard and as fast as I could, then jumping in and starting it.... it was brutal (didn't help that my daughter laughed at me...)! I thought pushing my car back and forth on my driveway would be a pretty good workout. It is only concentric. I've been meaning to get a rope for climbing and do some farmers walks but it's winter and I am not motivated with the weather.

Lastly, I used to do a lot of uphill sprints and always felt like they were a good workout. Sprinting is fun and doing it uphill forces better form and is more concentric.

Is eccentric loading something we avoid? Or is it something where in the case of bodybuilding style training we just dont accentuate the negative portion(definitely a ton of tension under length in my previous routines

From what you described, the advice seems pretty clear; add more fat (saturated), and add more calories. If you're losing hair, that is almost exclusively related to not enough fat. Many people who actively avoid fat complain about this, and it's usually those who follow a Vegan/Vegetarian diet who suffer the most. If your body temperature is on the low'ish side and your hands and feet are intolerant to cold, you should try simply eating more (which will come with more fat). The less calories you eat, the slower metabolism goes (this has it's advantages, but it's a personal choice whether one can handle the cold intolerance).

If you've started a cut, all be it conservative, then I would definitely wager you've actively cut calories and fat which is a huge no-no. Everyone has been guilty of it (including me), and people need to realize that skinny or shredded isn't necessarily healthy, and nobody can take a CICO style approach to drop weight without consequence. There are many factors at play that will stop the shredding process including metabolism, insulin, Cortsiol (too much exercise & not enough sleep), and Leptin to name a few with Leptin being your biggest adversary. Calorie restrict to much, Leptin sends a signal to your brain basically saying "hey we're starving here", and your brain sends a signal back saying "OK lets eat more to fix this then", and Leptin responds by saying "ok boss, i'm holding onto these fat stores, no more is being released for energy, and I'm going to store additional fat in case we hit another starvation mode". This is where people fail following a calorie restricted approach; whether it be a few months, a year, or a few years down the road. The weight comes back and then some.

How might you use this to your advantage to both shred and stop losing your hair? Take a ketogenic approach with target Peat style carb days approach, or as it's more formerly called "Targate Keto Diet". Reduce your workouts temporarily to about 3 days a week and see how you feel. If you feel like you can handle more, add another day or 2 in. Do a peat style meal on the days you work out, and stick to keto the rest of the time. The fat takes care of the hair loss problem and you can shred at the same time. Do the peat meals on days before you workout to push you through (but you may find it wont be necessary after a while).

I certainly havent been cutting since i confirmed my hair was indeed shedding. I think I only ran the mildish cut for 6 weeks, then as soon as I noticed a definite fall, I added calories back in eventually changing my diet completely. Oddly, I have been a huge proponent of fat in my diet anyway. In fact, I think at the time I was at least getting 70g a day through various forms. My winter diet(straight careless bulk-mode) was probably 3200-3400 calories. I defintely softened up and I definitely was a groggy mess, but at that time I had a thick head of hair.

Currently I am eating all grassfed beef, the broths, coconut oil eating and cooking in(probably 3 tbsp per day) whole eggs, butter.

Ill be frank, a ketogenic diet is going to be really hard on my body. I tried it for a while(a few months a couple years ago) and my energy was zapped, i was miserable, I had no physical power to do anything.

In your opinion do you think 3 days is too much to even try? I have been out of the gym for what will be 2 full weeks, I honestly feel like I might be a little less groggy. My appetite MIGHT be improving bit and I am definitely hungry. Even not training for a month probably would bother me more mentally. I just want to make sure I do ENOUGH for long enough to even get a gauge.

 

[Pet Peeve]

Talk to me about this bag breathing. Whats a good starting point?

Found the thread from such_saturation and his co2 device. I breath into it for half and hour to a couple of hours. https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/poor-mans-rebreather-kit.11984/

 

[Luckytype]

@Pet Peeve thanks for this. I have figured that bag breathing morning noon and night is a little easier. I can do it in the car even if i only have a few minutes.


Realistically - what kind of time frame should I have in my head as a gauge to see to see if everything is working?

I have been tracking food - I am at 70-100 protein a day, 300-350 carb and like 100-130 fats, mostly sat fats.

Salting to taste and trying to feed a little bit every hour. I have blended blueberries, OJ, coconut oil and some spinach with a couple scoops of hydrolyzed collagen powder and get a swig every 40-min or so.

No gym coming up on 3 weeks.

Temp seems to be improving at least a little - no change in the shed yet not certain on a change in grogginess or energy perception just yet.

 

[Pet Peeve]

Realistically - what kind of time frame should I have in my head as a gauge to see to see if everything is working?

I think that varies a lot from person to person. If you use pharma drugs etc. but I think you'll feel like a new person after 3 to 6 months with continued improvement after that. Bag breathing has not gotten rid of my blue nails (they should be pink), but I think this is a food malabsorption issue. The least positive thing about ray peats advice imo is the restriction in the number of things you can eat. The sooner you accept this restriction the sooner you'll get results, I think. I have sort of given up food as a source of pleasure (not that I dont enjoy cheese and OJ), and it was less hard for me than for most people as I was having some real issues (gluten, inflamed intestines).

 

[Luckytype]

I added in some Taurine after reading some threads posted by @natedawggh so hopefully he will chime in here.

Accidentally I started doing about 1500mg twice daily(thinking the serving was 1/2 scoop, when it was 1/4) and oddly enough I have had vivid dreams every night. Vivid enough that when I wake up I can recall what they were about.

Another thing since doing this, and though only a week - I have been waking earlier, not just groggily sleeping until forced to get up.

Upon doing some reading this apparently is a property of dopamine receptors being re-regulated again.

Going on 4 weeks of no gym, total reset is hopefully the goal here. Bodyweight about the same, a little softer in physical appearance, cheek bones and jaw still pronounced.

My hands seemingly getting a little warmer too, feet still cold.

 

[Luckytype]

Actually now that I think about it - do I want to be a little "cool" when going about my day? Or do I want to keep myself warm(space heater in office, heat blasting in car).

I am sure there are two arguments here. Usually when I get home I hop in a warm tub until my extremities feel warm again so that I can focus on conserving heat. My fear is that hot water may lower test levels, but cold may keep me freezing cold.


Whats the smart play here?

 

[JohnA]

A lot of us have had good results by keeping warm all day (taking hot showers upon waking, wearing winter gear indoors, only drinking room temperature / hot liquids, etc.)

Read through this thread: Temperature Reset à La Steve Richfield

 

[Luckytype]

Another thing I have noticed along with all this, likely a month or two into the shed. My eyes have felt like they are crusty(they arent, really) and the occasional headaches that come on more lately.

Any idea on what that could be? I dont think I have food allergies to note. I sleep a ton, no stimulants aside from a little coffee here.

 

[Syncopated]

So long story made long: I want to get my hair density back, diffuse thinner.

32
175lbs, lean with an easy ability to get completely "shredded":
Weight training lover
Lowish stress job - prior to this very high-stress, very long hours. Career change allowed this.
No sexual dysfunction, currently doing nofap/nojac unless its an actual female

I started shedding hair the beginning of July, 2016. It came after years of horrible anti-nutrition, basically living for calories only. I had started a somewhat conservative cut to get beach ready, and after 6 weeks, my hair started falling. It has since started to regrow but then fall out again. If I didn't style my hair how I do, you would DEFINITELY be able to tell. Most people dont know but I lose about 70 alone from just the top each day.

Here's what I know.
My body temp, even since childhood has been lower than 98.6
I am, and kinda sorta intolerant to cold(esp my feet and hands)
My hair and skin are generally bright, soft and clear.
The sides of my hair(tightly cropped) grow quite fast, the top is whats nonstop shedding - but its super healthy which makes no sense.

Bloodwork in august(2 months into shed)
Per my physician who is no longer my physician:
D level "fine"
B12 level "a little high"
iron level "fine"
"thyroid" - "fine"
cholesterol 130 - HDL of 70


Waking temp 97.2
Temp maybe rises .5 degrees after breakfast, stays somewhat low all day
Temp 6 hours after waking might get as high as 98.2
My sleep is groggy and I have yet to wake up and feel rested since this started

What I have done(starting end of august)
Eliminated grains
No gluten
Fruits and vegs(tons really, mainly making most of my carb intake) - lots of oranges, some apples, grapes, watermelon
Kept starches to really only - potato, rice, honey
Lean proteins, a mix really(grass fed beef, occasional chicken and turkey, whole eggs) a quest bar here and there
Lots of bone broth from oxtail
Coconut oil
Extra gelatin
Limited dairy(kefir, yogurt i enjoy)
Sleep a ton
limited caffeine

Supplemented - ADEK, zinc, p5p, no flush niacin(horrible reaction to regular), b complex, magnesium, manganese, vitamin k, a bit of iodine(added in later, probably december). Added each after 2-3 weeks to assess any issue associated with them. All have had no change whatsoever.
Added beta-alanine for workout

Just recently
Trimmed workouts(5 days a week) to whatever I can get done in 80 min
No preworkout products


I need help, I have no idea what my next step should be. I am considering adding in taurine, or lysine and seeing how that goes, frankly I feel like its "gotta be this thing or that" but then its addressed and no change.

Taking all input - thanks so much for reading this thread and for any input. I have scoured and tried to put a bunch of separate threads together but I am just unsure on what to do.

I would start with Tyronene from Idealabs.

 

[Luckytype]

I would start with Tyronene from Idealabs.

Share your reasoning with me, I was thinking of tyromix but I am struggling to find a "why". Also awaiting my cortisol 24hr test. I will likely include cypro in a small amount in the beginning in the early evenings.

Thanks for the reply, hugely appreciated.

 

[superGrover]

Do the carrot in the morning, RP says even a cup of carrots is good. Putting salt in your water or milk or OJ helps going against prolactin which helps your hair.

 

[Luckytype]

Do the carrot in the morning, RP says even a cup of carrots is good. Putting salt in your water or milk or OJ helps going against prolactin which helps your hair.

Thanks for the reply. Ive been on the carrot and extra salting for quite a while now. My prolactin is pretty darn high, I finally got the test completed a few weeks ago.

 

[Arnold Grape]

Thanks for the reply. Ive been on the carrot and extra salting for quite a while now. My prolactin is pretty darn high, I finally got the test completed a few weeks ago.

Did you end up doing the Tyronene?

 

[Luckytype]

Did you end up doing the Tyronene?

Not just yet. Im super undecided on what thyroid supplement to use to be honest. Tarmander brought up some really good points about the flexibilities of some of them so im still on the fence for which to use