Hair Loss Efforts. Are They Really Worth It?

[MyUsernameHere]

I've never heard a woman IRL say she's attracted to The Rock unless she was one of those really 'damaged-goods' types with daddy issues. I'm 25, I'm interested in girls within 5 years younger of my age. A 20 year old female doesn't dream of The Rock, so don't fuxxing invoke him or Vin Diesel as the icon of bald acceptance all over the world for young men in the age bracket of 20-25. It is irrelevant and shows you've no idea what you're talking about, or are simply unaffected by hair loss, in which case your ignorance is forgiven, but your audacity to give advice to balding men is not.

 

[xetawaves]

I've never heard a woman IRL say she's attracted to The Rock unless she was one of those really 'damaged-goods' types with daddy issues. I'm 25, I'm interested in girls within 5 years younger of my age. A 20 year old female doesn't dream of The Rock, so don't fuxxing invoke him or Vin Diesel as the icon of bald acceptance all over the world for young men in the age bracket of 20-25. It is irrelevant and shows you've no idea what you're talking about, or are simply unaffected by hair loss, in which case your ignorance is forgiven, but your audacity to give advice to balding men is not.

lol you know how many bald dudes I know with wives who are total babes? While some women do care, most don't. And the ones who do are usually too vain to consider girlfriend material. I assume you're still in the acceptance stage. As far as The Rock goes, I've heard plenty of women say they're attracted to him, so I guess at this point it's my word vs yours. Same goes for Statham. I would suggest you meet more women. Sorry you're so bitter, gl to you.

 

[nbznj]

anxiety causes hair loss, so being self conscious and putting a ton of work over hair health may actually be pointless if anxiety raises with the number of products used to preserve some hair

on the other hand I found that ingesting a grand total of 7 pills per day (vitADK formula, liver care formula, taurine 3g) takes about 15 seconds in the morning. Applying magnesium oil twice a day (and a bit on the scalp) takes about the same time and effort as applying deodorant. Using Nizoral shampoo and an argan+jojoba+emu oil conditioner takes about the same time and effort as using random shampoos. Using lukewarm water and a cold heat blow dryer takes about the same time and effort as a stupid hot shower and god knows what people use to create a haircut

idk, it's all about making things simple and never overthinking anything

then there's the whole part of not eating inflammatory trash, that may be a bit harder on a Superbowl Sunday but let's stop finding excuses.

 

[Pablo Cruise]

I've been reading this forum for years and yes obviously many people come here because of hair loss. Hair loss advise is one the most often discussed and dispensed topics here. In spite of not having hair issues (except for a receding hair line of my otherwise thick hair, which I dont consider an 'issue' when you're 42), I read most of them, though I have to say most of these efforts are strongly reminiscent of George Constanza's baldness treatment he had ordered from China.

My take is, if you're 40 and over, and live an otherwise healthy lifestyle and eat well (say according to peat), and also feel well and healthy, why not accept the hair loss WITH GRACE AND DIGNITY. Cut the hair really short or shave the head, and enjoy your life and walk proud with your head up. Because a proud, calm and confident bald man is always better than a self councious, insecure and anxious loser of a guy living a miserable life of obsession about his hair scraps.

Heating the hair under heat lamps, pounding it with massaging jack hammers, wearing ridiculous LED light caps or electric impulse head gearss, puting all kinds of disgusting, smelly or TOXIC sollutions, ointments and mixutures on it....it is so devoid of any kind of honor and self-respect that I honestly wonder who thinks it's worth it. ESPECIALLY since we all know that there is no treatment for baldness, and the few people on this planet who went from bald or balding to a full head of hair were people who cured an illness, which is not 99.9% of people losing hair.

Re: your take. I see hair loss as a personal issue. I know it bothered me immensely in my younger days and happy to have kept some but if you are able to do it with GRACE and DIGNITY then that is your decision. Everyone has do what they are most comfortable with. I do not begrudge those that try their best to hide their loss or those that have come to accept it. Isn't that the way to go?

 

[Pablo Cruise]

If you're 40 and over. What if you're 25, and you've been balding since 19, and your dad, and most 30-40 year olds have more hair on your head than you do? What then?

If I were you I would research and use the best approaches at this time and hope. I have been hearing of some successes recently I have not heard in the last 20 years. Go for it.

By the way, I accidentally found to my surprise that using dandruff shampoos has stopped my hair loss. No new hair just no further loss that I am aware of. I alternate daily a Zinc (DHS 2% zinc), with Selsun Blue, and with Sulphur/Salicylic Acid (Jason Dandruff Relief). There is evidence the microbioderm has a causation of AA. I also use Clobetasol 0.05% top solution 3 times a week also. That addresses inflammation but doubt anyone here uses it regularly.
The key is: leave the dandruff shampoos on the hair for 10 minutes minimum.

Based on current theories of hair loss: fibrosis and calcification what I do seems to work. I will follow up in June when it will be 1 year without "hair loss".

 

[Pablo Cruise]

Who tf wakes up to a balding head and goes "ah yes just what I was hoping for" not disputing that it suits some guys and doesn't suit others. If you're in your 40's it probably seems like no big deal, but let's not forget i'd say most the guys on this forum trying to fix their hair loss are probably experiencing it at a young age, and trust me it can be quite disturbing to go from having your first shot of vodka 3 years prior, to looking in the mirror and see a thinning head of hair.

Friend I am sure you are not alone :)

 

[MyUsernameHere]

lol you know how many bald dudes I know with wives who are total babes? While some women do care, most don't. And the ones who do are usually too vain to consider girlfriend material. I assume you're still in the acceptance stage. As far as The Rock goes, I've heard plenty of women say they're attracted to him, so I guess at this point it's my word vs yours. Same goes for Statham. I would suggest you meet more women. Sorry you're so bitter, gl to you.

Haha. I'm not bitter, I'm realistic. I had a shaved head for months, because I wanted to see how I'd look bald. And based on the reactions I've gotten from people (women included), that was enough input for me to know that a) No I cannot pull it off and b) I look miles better with hair and will do whatever I can to keep it.

I can do armchair psychology as well; it sounds to me you're in the 'coping' stage, what with the sour grapes mentality - "if she wouldn't want me bald, she's vain and I wouldn't want her anyway". Classic.

 

[Pablo Cruise]

Haha. I'm not bitter, I'm realistic. I had a shaved head for months, because I wanted to see how I'd look bald. And based on the reactions I've gotten from people (women included), that was enough input for me to know that a) No I cannot pull it off and b) I look miles better with hair and will do whatever I can to keep it.

I can do armchair psychology as well; it sounds to me you're in the 'coping' stage, what with the sour grapes mentality - "if she wouldn't want me bald, she's vain and I wouldn't want her anyway". Classic.

Maybe we use rationalization to diminish out pain :)

 

[Travis]

lol you know how many bald dudes I know with wives who are total babes? Most women don't care as much as you think. I assume you're still in the acceptance stage. I've heard plenty of women say they're attracted to him, so I guess at this point it's my word vs yours. Same goes for Statham. I would suggest you meet more women. Sorry you're so bitter, gl to you.

@Travis can FK-506 be used orally long term?

I would take that long term, unless you can be assured to urinate ten times per day (as it concentrates in the kidneys.)

It lowers γ-interferon so it reduces prostaglandin D₂. If it did just this—and lower interleukin-6—it would be wonderful, but it also lowers quite a few other cytokines.

And it upregulates transforming growth factor beta (TGF-β) which creates excessive collagen in the kidney's tubules. This is not good, and basically negates oral use unless someone can find a way to reliably circumvent this effect.

But it does work topically, despite its low absorption. Sandimmune™ will not work due to its low concentration. The study below had used 5% in olive oil:

click to embiggen: Showing results of 5% cyclosporine + olive oil.

And the other one I'd read had used cyclosporine at 25% in olive oil. It appears to work at these higher concentrations—necessitated by low skin permeability. Cyclosporine and FK-506 are relatively large cyclic proteins (and they are hard to find.)

When taken internally, hypertrichosis is actually the most common side-effect. This has actually been reported in over 90% of transplant recipients. So not only is hair growth 'impossible,' as the cynics would say, it it actually highly probably with cyclosporine or FK-506—almost certain. I think science has advanced to the point of regrowing hair in most cases, but the hair status quo is not geared towards such a thing. Because once something works, patients would demand more than overpriced drugs which barely work. The same socioeconomic dynamics apply to hair loss which can be seen in the cancer and cardiovascular disease fields; deep down, on a fundamental level, the millions who are profiting of off hair loss right now do not want to see any radical change—the market scooped with patient base drying-up.

There's that, and there's the psychological inertia of simply thinking in terms of androgens.​

If you accept the Garza studies, then you're nearly forced to admit that prostaglandin D₂ is a most significant and irreducible factor. What follows from this then would be that linoleic acid and γ-linolenic acid are obligatory for hair loss. I have tried to find cases of hair loss in tropical islands—those where the inhabitants eat fish, coconuts, tubers, and fruit—but have found exactly zero data on this. I would be willing to bet that hairloss is as rare on these tropical coconuteating islands as cardiovascular disease, despite the high androgens and saturated fatty acids.

Gilhar, A. "Topical cyclosporine in male pattern alopecia." Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology (1990)
Andersson, J. "Effects of FK506 and cyclosporin A on cytokine production studied in vitro at a single-cell level." Immunology (1992)
Garza, L. "Prostaglandin D2 inhibits hair growth and is elevated in bald scalp of men with androgenetic alopecia." Science translational medicine (2012)​

 

[Hairfedup]

I would take that long term, unless you can be assured to urinate ten times per day (as it concentrates in the kidneys.)

It lowers γ-interferon so it reduces prostaglandin D₂. If it did just this—and lower interleukin-6—it would be wonderful, but it also lowers quite a few other cytokines.

View attachment 8298

And it upregulates transforming growth factor beta (TGF-β) which creates excessive collagen in the kidney's tubules. This is not good, and basically negates oral use unless someone can find a way to reliably circumvent this effect.

But it does work topically, despite its low absorption. Sandimmune™ will not work due to its low concentration. The study below had used 5% in olive oil:

View attachment 8299 click to embiggen: Showing results of 5% cyclosporine + olive oil.

And the other one I'd read had used cyclosporine at 25% in olive oil. It appears to work at these higher concentrations—necessitated by low skin permeability. Cyclosporine and FK-506 are relatively large cyclic proteins (and they are hard to find.)

When taken internally, hypertrichosis is actually the most common side-effect. This has actually been reported in over 90% of transplant recipients. So not only is hair growth 'impossible,' as the cynics would say, it it actually highly probably with cyclosporine or FK-506—almost certain. I think science has advanced to the point of regrowing hair in most cases, but the hair status quo is not geared towards such a thing. Because once something works, patients would demand more than overpriced drugs which barely work. The same socioeconomic dynamics apply to hair loss which can be seen in the cancer and cardiovascular disease fields; deep down, on a fundamental level, the millions who are profiting of off hair loss right now do not want to see any radical change—the market scooped with patient base drying-up.

If you accept the Garza studies, then you're nearly forced to admit that prostaglandin D₂ is a most significant and irreducible factor. What follows from this then would be that linoleic acid and γ-linolenic acid are obligatory for hair loss. I have tried to find cases of hair loss in tropical islands—those where the inhabitants eat fish, coconuts, tubers, and fruit—but have found exactly zero data on this. I would be willing to bet that hairloss is as rare on these tropical coconuteating islands as cardiovascular disease, despite the high androgens and saturated fatty acids.

Gilhar, A. "Topical cyclosporine in male pattern alopecia." Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology (1990)
Andersson, J. "Effects of FK506 and cyclosporin A on cytokine production studied in vitro at a single-cell level." Immunology (1992)
Garza, L. "Prostaglandin D2 inhibits hair growth and is elevated in bald scalp of men with androgenetic alopecia." Science translational medicine (2012)​

Travis, I am interested in using one of these two substances topically sometime in the future - are there any possible side effects of topical application? This is just fascinating.

 

[Travis]

Travis, I am interested in using one of these two substances topically sometime in the future - are there any possible side effects of topical application? This is just fascinating.

No. There's no topical➝systemic effects of cyclosporine due to its size, and none from spironolactone either. As an antimineralocorticoid, spironolactone is a relatively polar steroid and will not diffuse into the bloodstream (and it has high‐affinity receptors on the cell membrane as well as the cytosol; they are everywhere). For each added hydroxyl (–OH) and keto (=O) group, a steroid increases in polarity and decreases in skin permeability; this effect is so consistent that it would be a nearly straight line if drawn‐out. Vitamin D, androgens, estradiol, and progesterone can all be absorbed systemically but aldosterone and spironolactone can not be.

Cyclosporine and FK‐506 are cyclic proteins (⤺Ala–Leu–Leu–Val–Thr–Abu–Sar–Leu–Val–Leu–Ala⤻) and as such are hard to come by. This isn't a generic small molecule drug you can buy at an online science supply store. Although not hard to produce per se, it would be relatively difficult to separate from other cellular components (peptides) making the entire purification stage time consuming and somewhat complicated. I have seen it for sale from Sigma–Aldrich and alibaba.com.

 

[xetawaves]

Haha. I'm not bitter, I'm realistic. I had a shaved head for months, because I wanted to see how I'd look bald. And based on the reactions I've gotten from people (women included), that was enough input for me to know that a) No I cannot pull it off and b) I look miles better with hair and will do whatever I can to keep it.

I can do armchair psychology as well; it sounds to me you're in the 'coping' stage, what with the sour grapes mentality - "if she wouldn't want me bald, she's vain and I wouldn't want her anyway". Classic.

lol your response was one of the most bitter things I’ve read on this forum. Nobody was being confrontational and you jumped in and started calling people ignorant. You don’t come across as the kind of guy that would be fun to hang out with, so that might have something to do with the negative responses from women.

“Armchair psychology” lol sounds like a fancy reddit term. I’m sorry that you don’t have confidence without hair, truly I am.

I’m a 26 year old Norwood 3 with pretty bad diffuse thinning and currently sleeping with an 18 year old. You need to meet more women and stop being such a bitter little crybaby. They’re not all the same.

lmao do you know the definition of vain? If a woman likes you but refuses to be with you because your lack of hair, that is vain my friend. It sounds like you’re running out of ammo at this point so just stop.

You’re a man. Men lose their hair. Women understand that.

 

[Hairfedup]

W

No. There's no topical➝systemic effects of cyclosporine due to its size, and none from spironolactone either. As an antimineralocorticoid, spironolactone is a relatively polar steroid and wont diffuse into the bloodstream (and it has high‐affinity receptors on the cell membrane as well as the cytosol; they are everywhere). For each added hydroxyl (–OH) and keto (=O) group, a steroid increases in polarity and decreases in skin permeability; this effect is so consistent that it would be a nearly straight line if drawn‐out. Vitamin D, androgens, estradiol, and progesterone can all be absorbed systemically but aldosterone and spironolactone can not be.

Cyclosporine and FK‐506 are cyclic proteins (⤺Ala–Leu–Leu–Val–Thr–Abu–Sar–Leu–Val–Leu–Ala⤻) and as such are hard to come by. This isn't a generic small molecule drug you can buy at an online science supply store. Although not hard to produce per se, it would be relatively difficult to separate from other cellular components (peptides) making the entire purification stage time consuming and somewhat complicated. I have seen it for sale from Sigma–Aldrich and alibaba.com.

Wow thank you so much for the information, Travis. Really appreciate it. And so the research begins haha.

 

[Hairfedup]

lol your response was one of the most bitter things I’ve read on this forum. Nobody was being confrontational and you jumped in and started calling people ignorant. You don’t come across as the kind of guy that would be fun to hang out with, so that might have something to do with the negative responses from women.

“Armchair psychology” lol sounds like a fancy reddit term. I’m sorry that you don’t have confidence without hair, truly I am.

I’m a 26 year old Norwood 3 with pretty bad diffuse thinning and currently sleeping with an 18 year old. You need to meet more women and stop being such a bitter little crybaby. They’re not all the same.

lmao do you know the definition of vain? If a woman likes you but refuses to be with you because your lack of hair, that is vain my friend. It sounds like you’re running out of ammo at this point so just stop.

You’re a man. Men lose their hair. Women understand that.

Its sad that he is refusing to listen to you...but tbh I was at the same place. I've found that women like me regardless, even if they wanna clown on my hairline a little bit lol.

 

[xetawaves]

Its sad that he is refusing to listen to you...but tbh I was at the same place. I've found that women like me regardless, even if they wanna clown on my hairline a little bit lol.

I mean, I understand being bitter about it. We’ve all been there, but at some point you have to man up. Attacking me personally by calling me ignorant in an attempt to undermine my statements isn’t going to regrow any hair lol trust me, I wanna keep my hair just as much as everyone else on this forum. I met a guy recently who is terribly handicapped and can’t even feed himself. Sadly, he’ll probably die having never even kissed a woman. How’s that for “being realistic.” Things can always be worse.

The bitterness stems from truly believing that women will absolutely want nothing to do with you, but if you look around there are plenty of married bald/balding men.

 

[Luckytype]

To be brutally honest, at least in my area(northeastern US) I have yet to see a bald dude that looks healthy. All of them look just EXHAUSTED. None of them look bright, lively or happy, ever. I literally can't think of one bald person whos face doesnt look like they had their soul sucked out from them.

Just an observation.

 

[Hairfedup]

I have to admit....I'm quite confused at one thing. The studies that Travis cites, amongst others, pretty much prove that Cyclosporin and FK506 regrow hair without any side effects if applied topically...I can afford I think, to at least try it out for a while. Why is no one else doing this?

 

[Travis]

Parodi, A. "Topical cyclosporine in alopecia areata." Archives of dermatology (1987)
click to embiggen

 

[Hairfedup]

Parodi, A. "Topical cyclosporine in alopecia areata." Archives of dermatology (1987)
View attachment 8300 View attachment 8302 View attachment 8303 View attachment 8304click to embiggen

Remarkable....

 

[xetawaves]

Very tempted to give topical cyclosporine a shot now