Haidut's Summary Of PUFA

[amethyst]

Thanks for that Charlie. Good info. on PUFAS. I can't see as going really low fat is that beneficial. Maybe someone will lose a lot of weight initially if that's their goal, but how sustainable is that long term? I'm not knocking it if that works for someone. I just think it's important for someone to have good fats like butter, coconut oil etc.to keep you satiated. I think Peat has discussed that. I think the problem is, the paleo/keto folks took getting good fats to the extreme, suggesting you need a LOT of it. For me, good fats in moderation (meaning: not be afraid to eat "some" of it, and replacing the PUFA fats) is what works. Also the demonization of fruit by the Keto -sugar phobic folks is not healthy. In the popular dietary world, we have Peat to thank for making fruit and some sugar ok to eat again, and for exposing the dangers of PUFA fats. To me, that's major. * Still on the fence tho about the benefits/necessity of Coke. I just don't see any nutritional value in that. And eventually, after I have PUFAsized enough of the bad fats out of my system, I'm going to re-introduce nuts again, as I think they are delicious and have nutritional value.

 

[DaveFoster]

I feel terrible on low-fat long-term; I'm an anxious mess, but in the beginning it's fine.

 

[Fearlessgolfer]

I feel terrible on low-fat long-term; I'm an anxious mess, but in the beginning it's fine.

Interesting!

I wonder how low(fat) I can go and how it will affect me?
I went as log as 20g or less carbs doing ketogenic yet I cycled weekly.
Things will settle after experimentations. I will know how much fat intake will keep me happy and healthy. Just a few nights ago, it was over 125g of fat (still using lots of butter and coconut oil cooking from ketogenic).

 

[Fearlessgolfer]

Thanks for that Charlie. Good info. on PUFAS. I can't see as going really low fat is that beneficial. Maybe someone will lose a lot of weight initially if that's their goal, but how sustainable is that long term? I'm not knocking it if that works for someone. I just think it's important for someone to have good fats like butter, coconut oil etc.to keep you satiated. I think Peat has discussed that. I think the problem is, the paleo/keto folks took getting good fats to the extreme, suggesting you need a LOT of it. For me, good fats in moderation (meaning: not be afraid to eat "some" of it, and replacing the PUFA fats) is what works. Also the demonization of fruit by the Keto -sugar phobic folks is not healthy. In the popular dietary world, we have Peat to thank for making fruit and some sugar ok to eat again, and for exposing the dangers of PUFA fats. To me, that's major. * Still on the fence tho about the benefits/necessity of Coke. I just don't see any nutritional value in that. And eventually, after I have PUFAsized enough of the bad fats out of my system, I'm going to re-introduce nuts again, as I think they are delicious and have nutritional value.

How would you know you have eliminated much PUFA out of you?

 

[DaveFoster]

Interesting!

I wonder how low(fat) I can go and how it will affect me?
I went as log as 20g or less carbs doing ketogenic yet I cycled weekly.
Things will settle after experimentations. I will know how much fat intake will keep me happy and healthy. Just a few nights ago, it was over 125g of fat (still using lots of butter and coconut oil cooking from ketogenic).

0.3-0.5 g fat per pound of lean body mass, IIRC. I prefer 1 g/lb LBM.

 

[paymanz]

What happens to the rate of lipolysis during a fat free or ultra low fat diet?!

It adjust accordingly?

A high carb diet and insulin high followed with it suppresses lipolysis for example.

What heppens in a fat free high carb diet?!

Heart muscles and resting skeletal muscles use mostly fats , if we lower FFAs too Much what happens to them?!

 

[DaveFoster]

What happens to the rate of lipolysis during a fat free or ultra low fat diet?!

It adjust accordingly?

A high carb diet and insulin high followed with it suppresses lipolysis for example.

What heppens in a fat free high carb diet?!

Heart muscles and resting skeletal muscles use mostly fats , if we lower FFAs too Much what happens to them?!

I would imagine your body would synthesize saturated fat from carbohydrate, and use this.

 

[paymanz]

Uh that right @DaveFoster thanks.I think I forgot that! Haha

I think about rice diet of Dr kempner,and good weight lost result of his patients.

They surely used those fats as fuel right?

Does it need to have the triglycerides get into FFA in order to get used by cell?

Or as we eat high carb meal and convert some of it to fat , can it be used immidiatly or it has to go through lipolysis process?!

Is dietary fat absorbed as FFA or triglycerides?

I have some question like these ,confused!!

 

[Fearlessgolfer]

0.3-0.5 g fat per pound of lean body mass, IIRC. I prefer 1 g/lb LBM.

Wow, 1 g/lb of LMB is my protein rate when maintaining or cutting.

I guess I will play around with it.

Thanks

 

[paymanz]

How they lost weight with rice diet?

Can it be that if we keep carb intake a bit low so it just refill the glycogen stores of liver and muscles and not as enough to turn on the lipogeneis,so we use stored fat?!

 

[amethyst]

I feel terrible on low-fat long-term; I'm an anxious mess, but in the beginning it's fine.

Me too!

 

[amethyst]

How would you know you have eliminated much PUFA out of you?

Good question. I would think that you would not have inflammatory responses to what you are eating over time, such as bloating, digestion problems, puffiness etc. I know I do not have the same responses to foods since I've been eating the peaty way...but it would be good to hear from more seasoned peatisizers on the forum who have doing this a lot longer than me. I'm a noobie on here.

 

[DaveFoster]

Wow, 1 g/lb of LMB is my protein rate when maintaining or cutting.

I guess I will play around with it.

Thanks

Gains max out at 0.82 g/lb for protein unless you're on gear.

 

[paymanz]

@tyw you may have deeper insight on this subject we discussed in a few post above on this page?

Weight loss reported in Dr kempner's studies , what can be the mechanism?

Doesn't the high carb intake inhibit lipolysis?

 

[tyw]

@tyw you may have deeper insight on this subject we discussed in a few post above on this page?

Weight loss reported in Dr kempner'studies , what can be the mechanism?

Doesn't the high carb intake inhibit lipolysis?

24-hour energy balance is still an immutable constraint, which I addressed in my posts in this thread -- Drinking Coke Freely Quadruples Calorie Intake WITHOUT Weight Gain

Also this section and the rest of the article -- PUFA, Birds, and Genetics

Any discussion of any macronutrient needs to take into account supply and demand for that macronutrient (except in the case of alcohol, which always takes priority). This is invariably affected by total energy needs.

I'll repeat the quote attributed to ItsTheWooooo -- "A 50% calorie restricted 50% carb diet is a ketogenic diet". Doesn't matter what you are eating, if you need to mobilise that much fat from stores, the excess fat will have to be mobilised (and "be lost"), and if there is enough oxaloacetate depletion, ketones are produced.

....

 

[haidut]

@charlie thank you for organizing PUFA.

@zkatkin , I see this post was over a year ago; how are you now? Your calorie/macros too?

I'm new to RP, like many, coming from pale/ketogenic/epi-paleo and realize I must cut fat like I did with carbs to 20g or below. Most of my calorie intake seems 2500 - 3000 with 150g protein and 100g + of fat and rest carbs/sugar. If I cut fat to 50g, my carb/sugar may have to go close to 500g. This is my uncharted territory.

I eat pretty much what I want with the restrictions of avoiding PUFA, starch and legumes. Pretty much everything else is fair game and I found that once PUFA stores got very low not even beer can give me estrogenic symptoms any more. When I can't avoid PUFA due to travel, or relatives forcing me to eat what they have cooked, I eat a tbsp. of coconut oil with every meal to balance the PUFA. I don't even take niacinamide on a daily basis any more, only as needed if I feel endotoxin coming (say from eating bean casserole prepared by a relative).

 

[sladerunner69]

I went super low fat over the weekend. 2 days of around 2600 calories, with sub 10g of fat. I felt out of it until feeding a couple of times (complete brain frog) and my blood sugar crashed at one point. I feel the same way, I'm not sure if it's left overs from low carb/paleo days, but I love fat and don't feel right without it. I'm just starting out on this RP and true documentation/self-experimentation journey, but I can already feel 40 - 60 g/fat/day is what feels best.

Now if I could just lose some body fat.

Have you tried a calculated approach? weighing out your calories and eating low fat <40g per day? and consuming plenty of caffiene and vitamin k? and taking long brisk walks a couple times each day?

 

[Fearlessgolfer]

I'll repeat the quote attributed to ItsTheWooooo -- "A 50% calorie restricted 50% carb diet is a ketogenic diet". Doesn't matter what you are eating, if you need to mobilise that much fat from stores, the excess fat will have to be mobilised (and "be lost"), and if there is enough oxaloacetate depletion, ketones are produced.

@tyw Would you expand/explain bit more in detail please? Thanks.

 

[Fearlessgolfer]

I eat pretty much what I want with the restrictions of avoiding PUFA, starch and legumes. Pretty much everything else is fair game and I found that once PUFA stores got very low not even beer can give me estrogenic symptoms any more. When I can't avoid PUFA due to travel, or relatives forcing me to eat what they have cooked, I eat a tbsp. of coconut oil with every meal to balance the PUFA. I don't even take niacinamide on a daily basis any more, only as needed if I feel endotoxin coming (say from eating bean casserole prepared by a relative).

@haidut This is WOW! Great to know this is possible. Thanks for sharing.

 

[chrismeyers]

I've been on an ultra low fat (probably under 5 grams a day) diet for a year. I drink a gallon of fat free (skim) milk and a whole bunch of frozen fruit mashed up in it with my Nutribullet. Thats it. And I am healthier than Ive ever been. Now I assume skim milk does have some trace fat. I want to say 0.1 grams per cup. I drink 16 cups, so about 2 grams total fat. And by the way I simply dont crave fats at all anymore. Like none. I absolutely crave sugar. Both milk sugar and fruit sugar. Humans simply don't need dietary fat, PUFA or non PUFA. Thats what Ive learned over the past year and how well this has worked for me. All fats necessary can be created by your body using glucose.