Haidut's Recent Comments On Estrogen's Role In Hairloss

[ExD]

i haven't found any official studies. just lots of people on the internet using it for scars and repairing skin.

the enzymes also seem to reverse calfication but I don't know the exact mechanism of how

personally, i have taken taurine for over 2 years and didn't reverse my baldness, but it had stopped progressing.
vitamin k2 and progresterone also may have stopped my hair loss progressing,

but to actually reverse the damage and current fibrosis they didn't work for me

Yeah the anecdotes are out there and the anti-inflammatory effects are well known, it's just strange there is no clinical evidence that it does...well, the only thing it's intended to do.

I'd assume some of the effects are due to it's protein dissolving potential but many anecdotes report that the benefits they experience stop when they cease using it, which seems strange if it is literally dissolving scar tissue (one would expect the effect to be permanent to long term).

I've also read that the benefits of taurine tend to taper off and plateau when one is replete

Which brings us back to severe damaging (dermarolling)
This forum should have more members than any other forum dealing with mpb that fixed their underlying issues.
Yet, little success stories, lets be honest here.
Which is why I believe we need agressive wounding, basically like this guy that fell in the fireplace.i don’t think every 10 days is enough but who knows.
It’s risky for those who still have hair to lose, as you can create even more fibrosis this way.
And it’s no fun
I do it every 3-4 days atm.
Changes in scalp texture are undeniable. Longer vellus in temples.
One ******* terminal hair appeared in my temples lol. One. At this rate I will have decent hair at eighty yrs

I was getting incredible results from dermarolling between July/March and as of lockdown it seems to do more damage than good, largely because my diet and lifestyle shat itself - I was undereating, stuck in lockdown with zero social contact and despite getting more sun than I had during the previous period, everything improved EXCEPT my hair which took a harder hit than I'd seen since I was in my teens - worth noting that during this time my head would remain red for several days, instead of just a few hours as it did during the regrowth period.

For context, when I was getting regrowth (hundreds of terminal hairs on temple) I was eating a lot of ***t, but I was still eating a lot and I was stressed in a productive way with work and exercise, not the gimpy lethargy I associate with this BS lockdown.

Just as I disregard diet advice when it comes from a fat person, I disregard Georgi when he talks about the causes of and treatments for alopecia.

I agree. Unless someone has actually improved their own situation using what they know, taking advice from them is extremely naive.

I know that Benjamin Button from this forum lost a lot of his regrowth, but he did provide pictures to prove it is possible, and the one take away from his situation was that he tried "******* everything" and didn't give up. Consistency and determination > all the knowledge and theory in the world when it comes to fixing something.

 

[Ableton]

Brought this up in another thread, but I don't think it's going to do you any good to simply wound your scalp, which is likely to lead to prolonged acute inflammation.

It's got to be paired up with something else to actually ship the debris out of the scalp or to lyse it. The way to do that appears to be using proteolytic enzymes and then hopefully one day the source of the inflammatory reaction in the scalp could be determined.

then why the success stories on reddit and co regarding dermarolling?
Maybe your blood is enough to ship the debris away, as you break it up.
From what I see in my scalp texture, I am reducing fibrosis as we speak.
Maybe not even this is enough to induce regrowth.
Maybe I need more growth factors to actually reactivate the follicles, idk.

i am kind of done with ******* supplements. At least proteolytic enzymes seems rather risk free, but the ones I saw mentioned are like 90 bucks again, and I sm not gonna get them until we have a success story here, which we do not. Or anywhere on the internet for that matter. I have enough useless ***t in my drawer that does more harm than good

 

[Waynish]

I have to agree with you somewhat here. Relying on receptor theory to explain the argument seems like a stretch.

Although your explanation regarding ginger being estrogenic misses the mark a little as well. It is anti-inflammatory, which probably explains the benefits you observed. It is a serotonin antagonist as well (speaking of receptors lol, it's the 5-HT3 specifically)

Indeed ginger has a more complex action than what can be described using two molecules.

Right, I'd like to see why it seems reasonable that we can translate Georgi's receptor interpretation to estrogen concentration - has the estrogen concentration in scalps been measured? Has has the receptor interpretation been deduced - especially considering that many of us realize the receptor idea is bunk.

 

[Broco6679]

i am kind of done with ******* supplements. At least proteolytic enzymes seems rather risk free, but the ones I saw mentioned are like 90 bucks again, and I sm not gonna get them until we have a success story here, which we do not. Or anywhere on the internet for that matter. I have enough useless ***t in my drawer that does more harm than good

You shouldn't even need all that many supplements if you're implementing the Peat approach to hairloss anyway. Everyone takes all these different supplements that supposedly prevent calcification and fibrosis, whilst flat out ignoring their mid afternoon body temp of 36.5 c / 97.6 f. Ray has regularly talked about how fibrosis is a product of ineffective energy production, as when the body has inefficient energy to regenerate a tissue, it replaces it with fibrous collagen instead. If this isn't addressed, no amount of anti-calcification or fibrosis supplements will help.

I used to do this myself. I spent a lot of time on the hairloss section of this forum having never read a single article from Ray. I was taking taurine, zinc, magnesium, vitamin d/k2, dermarolling, massaging, applying essential oils, zix, and various other hair loss supps for a long time. They never did anything. The whole time my underarm temps were 36c, so it's not surprising I saw no improvement. These tools can be useful for regrowth once the metabolism is restored, but on their own, they won't do anything. I think the varying degrees of metabolic downregulation each person experiences is why you see one person get complete regrowth from dermarolling + minoxidl, whilst another person gets nothing.

I've dropped all anti-hairloss measures from my life, and am instead focusing solely on getting my temps to 37c. Once I achieve this, I may consider reintroducing things like scalp massage or dermarolling. In my current state of health, I think they're largely counterproductive.

 

[Broco6679]

Just as I disregard diet advice when it comes from a fat person, I disregard Georgi when he talks about the causes of and treatments for alopecia.

I disagree with this line of thinking. Putting forth ideas about the pathogenisis of a disease whilst having said disease yourself doesn't make the ideas inherently wrong. It would be different if Haidut said he knew how to outright cure male pattern baldness, but to my knowledge, he hasn't done that.

 

[Ableton]

You shouldn't even need all that many supplements if you're implementing the Peat approach to hairloss anyway. Everyone takes all these different supplements that supposedly prevent calcification and fibrosis, whilst flat out ignoring their mid afternoon body temp of 36.5 c / 97.6 f. Ray has regularly talked about how fibrosis is a product of ineffective energy production, as when the body has inefficient energy to regenerate a tissue, it replaces it with fibrous collagen instead. If this isn't addressed, no amount of anti-calcification or fibrosis supplements will help.

I used to do this myself. I spent a lot of time on the hairloss section of this forum having never read a single article from Ray. I was taking taurine, zinc, magnesium, vitamin d/k2, dermarolling, massaging, applying essential oils, zix, and various other hair loss supps for a long time. They never did anything. The whole time my underarm temps were 36c, so it's not surprising I saw no improvement. These tools can be useful for regrowth once the metabolism is restored, but on their own, they won't do anything. I think the varying degrees of metabolic downregulation each person experiences is why you see one person get complete regrowth from dermarolling + minoxidl, whilst another person gets nothing.

I've dropped all anti-hairloss measures from my life, and am instead focusing solely on getting my temps to 37c. Once I achieve this, I may consider reintroducing things like scalp massage or dermarolling. In my current state of health, I think they're largely counterproductive.

i totally agree lol, basically been preaching that here as well
The only thing is, my daytime temps are 37 already
My waking temps still too low though, like 36,1.
Dunno how to fix this, hopefully it’s just a matter of time.
Aspirin gave me a good temp boost though

 

[Broco6679]

i totally agree lol, basically been preaching that here as well
The only thing is, my daytime temps are 37 already
My waking temps still too low though, like 36,1.
Dunno how to fix this, hopefully it’s just a matter of time.
Aspirin gave me a good temp boost though

I wasn't directing it towards you specifically per se; it was more just a general comment. Apologies if it came off that way.

I think a morning temp of 36.1 does indicate you still have things to improve on. I look at that as a good thing though - if your temps were perfect, you felt great and you were still losing hair, it wouldn't really leave you much else to work with, haha.

 

[haidut]

In today's livestream Georgi and Roddy talked a lot about hairloss, specifically estrogen's (proposed) causative role. Georgi also talked about the side effects many people get when taking ai's like exemestane and anastrozole. For those who don't have time to watch the video, here are some of Georgi's comments (not direct quotes as I had to cut out a lot of unnecessary words to keep it short. The general points remain the same)

Georgi on aromatase inhibitors causing hairloss as proof for estrogen being a 'hair healthy' hormone:

"There is not a single aromatase inhibitor that is specific for aromatase. All of them actually end up also lowering progesterone."

"The studies showed that it is the level of expression of the estorgen receptor in the scalp specifically that was responsible for the hairloss. When they administer estrogen systemically, it did not have the hair loss effects that it had when they applied it topically. So, the aromatase inhibitor they are taking is dropping estrogen systemically [a few inaudible words due to an internet issue], but that doesn't mean much about your scalp."

"It's the whole dichotomy between blood levels [of estrogen] and tissue levels, and specifically in stressed tissues such as a scalp losing hair. So, if your thyroid is low we have already talked about this before, your skin will pick up the slack and start producing all of these steroids. There are a few studies that actually looked at the hormone in the scalp. Estrogen and Prolactin were both high. For whatever reason, yes, DHT was also high, but somehow the medical industry took that partial finding and started running with it while completely ignoring that other hormones. Estrogenic hormones were also high."

"And again, nobody so far has proven conclusively that dht causes hairloss. I know people who have actually massaged masterone, dht, proviron, and a bunch of other dht-derived drugs on their scalp, and some of them actually started regrowing hair. It didn't work in many people, maybe only 20%, but none of them lost more hair. It's totally anecdotal and doesn't have statistical significance, but that would be my response to people saying everyone knows aromatase inhibitors cause hairloss. Show me a selective aromatase inhibitor that does nothing else other than inhibiting aromatase, and lets see if it causes hairloss or not. To my knowledge, there is no such aromatase inhibitor on the market."

"We had this discussion a little bit on the forum, because people were saying "oh, if estrogen is not important for the bones, howcome when I take an aromatase inhibitor I get joint pains, like my bones are cracking, all these studies showing bones are thinning"; again, you have not covered the fact that it [aromatase inhibitors] lowers pregnenolone, lowers progesterone, and lowers dhea as well."

"The different enzymes, both the ones that synthesis estrogen from precursors, and the other steroids that synthesize progesterone and dhea, are very similar in structure. It's very hard to develop something that is so uniquely specific to aromatase without touching other steroids and steroidal pathways."

"Ironically, progesterone maybe one of the most selective aromatase inhibitors out there. There are people taking progesterone who have managed to tank their estrogen, specifically using progesterone as an aromatase inhibitor, like women that didn't care about tanking their testosterone, or whatever other reason men are scared of taking progesterone. None of them got bone pain, none of them got cracking bones, none of them got osteopenia; in fact, their bones improved."

"All of these side effects that people blame on the too low estrogen from aromatase inhibitors, to me the evidence for that is lacking. If anything, we can say that non selective aromatase inhibitor cause issues, but to blame it completely on the lack of estrogen, I don't think there's evidence for that."

"What was the other thing? Oh yes, people getting treated with estrogen [who subsequently regrow hair]. I looked at those studies. Most of them are about people doing transgender, basically switching genders, and I think in the vast majority of cases these people got a combination treatment of a progestin and estrogen. The reason for this is the vast majority of cases [gender transition], if not all of them, wasn't very popular in the 20th century, all the way up to the early 90's. By that point medicine has already realized that giving people only estrogen is very, very dangerous. So, you'll be hard pressed to find transgender studies that only use estrogen. If you find one and show me that this led to hair regrowth I'll consider it; but so far, the only studies I have seen always had something else, either the person got estrogen and testosterone, if it was a female to male; or basically, the person who was converting from male to female, they actually got castrated; keep in mind that actually drops estrogen..."

Roddy:
"and serotonin, and prolactin"

Haidut:
"That's right. So, the studies I have seen have not been able to isolate the estrogen as a cause of hair regrowth, and I don't believe it is. I don't know of a study that is well designed and has managed to isolate, to claim a cause. If you have such a study, please send it to me. I have looked at all of this, and almost all of them are progestin and estrogen. Or, male to female and they got castrated."

There was also a lot of discussion about minoxidil after this for those interested.

What are everyone's thoughts on these comments?

Anecdotally, exemestane accelerated my already significant hairloss when I took it during my years on testosterone replacement therapy. I only used a small dose and my serum estradiol was always kept in the middle of the range (so not too low), but my progesterone was often undetectable. I had ~0.40 nmol/L progesterone on testosterone when not using exemstane, and my levels would drop to < 0.15 nmol/L (assay didn't go any lower) whenever I introduced it. The average progesterone level for a man is 1.23 nmol/L +/- 0.23, so both of my results were low, but exemestane took it lower.

With that said, I've been off testosterone for a while now, and despite my progesterone levels rising to 1.4 nmol/L, my hair loss has continued at the same rate. Like most here I don't subscribe to the notion that DHT casues hairloss; but likewise, the comments Georgi made don't really address the fact that almost no man on this forum who has taken progesterone (and there has been many) has reported the halt or reversal of male pattern baldness. In many cases, this was also whilst taking thyroid and other estrogen inhibiting substances, like vitamin e, aspirin, vitamin K2 etc.

Either way, I thinks it's great that both Danny and Georgi are offering an alternative view. Looking forward to hearing other's thoughts on these comments.

Some recent thread comments on the topic. I will be making a separate post on that next week.
Progest-e And Progestogenic [Danny Roddy]

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I've dropped all anti-hairloss measures from my life, and am instead focusing solely on getting my temps to 37c. Once I achieve this, I may consider reintroducing things like scalp massage or dermarolling. In my current state of health, I think they're largely counterproductive.

Curious what measures have been most effective for you in raising your core temps.

 

[Broco6679]

Some recent thread comments on the topic. I will be making a separate post on that next week.
Progest-e And Progestogenic [Danny Roddy]

I noticed this thread directly after I posted this. Apologies, Georgi.

 

[Broco6679]

Curious what measures have been most effective for you in raising your core temps.

I've tried pretty much every supplement you can imagine, but none of them helped much. Increasing my caloric intake with starch has been the best thing for improving temps, ironically. It's not a stress reaction either, as I feel much calmer after eating a meal high in white potato or rice. I spent a long time on a sugar only diet with high liquid content and it was making the situation worse. This alone was enough to get my mid-afternoon temps from 36.2 to ~36.8. I tried the typical anti-ffa substances like niacinamide and aspirin, but they don't budge my temps at all. Thyroid increased it a lot, but it quickly caused a stress reaction after a week so I stopped.

The biggest thing holding me back at the moment is extremely poor digestion. I have a severe bacterial infection in my gut from years of hypothyrodism which carrot salad and mushrooms cannot fix. I've put off starting a low dose of penicillin vk for a while now, but after finding a few helpful studies on the subject I'm going to start a course next week. I think the reduced endotoxin load (which right now is very high) and the increased uptake and utilization of macro- and micronutrients will go a long way to raising my temps. I believe it will also allow me to tolerate thyroid better.

 

[ExD]

I've tried pretty much every supplement you can imagine, but none of them helped much. Increasing my caloric intake with starch has been the best thing for improving temps, ironically. It's not a stress reaction either, as I feel much calmer after eating a meal high in white potato or rice. I spent a long time on a sugar only diet with high liquid content and it was making the situation worse. This alone was enough to get my mid-afternoon temps from 36.2 to ~36.8. I tried the typical anti-ffa substances like niacinamide and aspirin, but they don't budge my temps at all. Thyroid increased it a lot, but it quickly caused a stress reaction after a week so I stopped.

The biggest thing holding me back at the moment is extremely poor digestion. I have a severe bacterial infection in my gut from years of hypothyrodism which carrot salad and mushrooms cannot fix. I've put off starting a low dose of penicillin vk for a while now, but after finding a few helpful studies on the subject I'm going to start a course next week. I think the reduced endotoxin load (which right now is very high) and the increased uptake and utilization of macro- and micronutrients will go a long way to raising my temps. I believe it will also allow me to tolerate thyroid better.

What is your average temp atm, with the infection? Or do you mean 36.8 is your highest atm?

 

[wavelength123]

Hair loss is an inflammatory disease caused by nutrient deficiencies and caloric excess. Hormones are associated with inflammation, big deal... It’s all extremely simple and goes something like this: (whatever combination of good or bad hormones in the follicle cell) X inflammation X personal genetic threshold = hair loss

We can speculate all day about which hormone is GOOD or BAD which seems extremely simplistic and binary to me, we can talk genetics for decades... if inflammation is 0, there’s no hair loss.

there’s nothing else.

Bottom 3 boxes aren’t relevant here, everything else remains.

It’s all diet, thats why people can’t figure it out.

 

[Ableton]

I've tried pretty much every supplement you can imagine, but none of them helped much. Increasing my caloric intake with starch has been the best thing for improving temps, ironically. It's not a stress reaction either, as I feel much calmer after eating a meal high in white potato or rice. I spent a long time on a sugar only diet with high liquid content and it was making the situation worse. This alone was enough to get my mid-afternoon temps from 36.2 to ~36.8. I tried the typical anti-ffa substances like niacinamide and aspirin, but they don't budge my temps at all. Thyroid increased it a lot, but it quickly caused a stress reaction after a week so I stopped.

The biggest thing holding me back at the moment is extremely poor digestion. I have a severe bacterial infection in my gut from years of hypothyrodism which carrot salad and mushrooms cannot fix. I've put off starting a low dose of penicillin vk for a while now, but after finding a few helpful studies on the subject I'm going to start a course next week. I think the reduced endotoxin load (which right now is very high) and the increased uptake and utilization of macro- and micronutrients will go a long way to raising my temps. I believe it will also allow me to tolerate thyroid better.

same, starches and sat fats make me feel good. Same experiences regarding too much liquid. I reduced it through eating more potatoes mainly.
I still get 1,25 l of milk and 1-2 litres of juice daily, though. I need 3.5k calories and I do not get there otherwise.
I fixed my digestion with cypro, although I can still get diarrhea if I drink too much liquid in a small timeframe or eat too much fat at once.
Maybe you should consider that as a reset tool. I suspect hiatamine and serotonin was involved in my poor digestion

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I still get 1,25 l of milk and 1-2 litres of juice daily, though

I drink about half of that. My total Calcium intake rarely exceeds 1300g on Cronometer. Although intake from cheese is not accounted by Cronometer.
Would you say getting a lot of Calcium was important in stopping hair fall and shifting towards regrowth?

 

[Ableton]

I drink about half of that. My total Calcium intake rarely exceeds 1300g on Cronometer. Although intake from cheese is not accounted by Cronometer.
Would you say getting a lot of Calcium was important in stopping hair fall and shifting towards regrowth?

I do not have relevant regrowth yet.
I honestly do not know. Half of that might be enough. I get like 3g/calcium a day. Which is alot, but I take vit k and get a lot of vit d and obviously had a deficiency in the first place, confirmed by labs.

I do not think 3 g of calcium can be recommended without vit k and d.

I drink that much milk because I feel its good for me, I grave it, it's cheap, it has cals and micros. I consider milk a superfood at this point. I also tolerate it well now.

I even eat around 250g of yoghurt on top of that. Seems to be good for digestion for me.

But I have great milk/yoghurt sources (local and eco, non homogenized)

I do wonder if I get too little magnesium in relation to calcium as I have also dropped supplementation of it to get an even cleaner gut, tbh.

 

[JDreamer]

then why the success stories on reddit and co regarding dermarolling?
Maybe your blood is enough to ship the debris away, as you break it up.
From what I see in my scalp texture, I am reducing fibrosis as we speak.
Maybe not even this is enough to induce regrowth.
Maybe I need more growth factors to actually reactivate the follicles, idk.

i am kind of done with ******* supplements. At least proteolytic enzymes seems rather risk free, but the ones I saw mentioned are like 90 bucks again, and I sm not gonna get them until we have a success story here, which we do not. Or anywhere on the internet for that matter. I have enough useless ***t in my drawer that does more harm than good

I'm on the net keeping up with this stuff more than what is probably considered healthy like a lot of others around here. The dermarolling success stories across sites (Reddit, Ray Peat, Hairloss Talk, etc etc) are a scant minority contingent to the point where they're almost statistically insignificant right now. Most of the ones finding success are doing so in conjunction with Minox - which is what any sane individual is trying to avoid. Everyone knows what happens when you get off that stuff.

What I'm talking about is common sense. You cannot subject your skin to acute inflammation for prolonged periods of time and not expect to create more fibrosis/scarring at some point. It's illogical. If your scalp is highly inflamed already, then you're compounding the problem. I'm willing to bet that anyone who saw significantly cosmetic gains using the combo of wounding/Minox were in much earlier stages of fibrosis.

Personally, the science behind proteolytic enzymes seems pretty sound to me and a weapon I want in my tool belt, not even just for hair but for overall health improvement. This sh*t isn't going to resolve itself or on a budget though. I'd rather pay for those then drop thousands of dollars on hair transplants.

 

[JDreamer]

You shouldn't even need all that many supplements if you're implementing the Peat approach to hairloss anyway. Everyone takes all these different supplements that supposedly prevent calcification and fibrosis, whilst flat out ignoring their mid afternoon body temp of 36.5 c / 97.6 f. Ray has regularly talked about how fibrosis is a product of ineffective energy production, as when the body has inefficient energy to regenerate a tissue, it replaces it with fibrous collagen instead. If this isn't addressed, no amount of anti-calcification or fibrosis supplements will help.

I used to do this myself. I spent a lot of time on the hairloss section of this forum having never read a single article from Ray. I was taking taurine, zinc, magnesium, vitamin d/k2, dermarolling, massaging, applying essential oils, zix, and various other hair loss supps for a long time. They never did anything. The whole time my underarm temps were 36c, so it's not surprising I saw no improvement. These tools can be useful for regrowth once the metabolism is restored, but on their own, they won't do anything. I think the varying degrees of metabolic downregulation each person experiences is why you see one person get complete regrowth from dermarolling + minoxidl, whilst another person gets nothing.

I've dropped all anti-hairloss measures from my life, and am instead focusing solely on getting my temps to 37c. Once I achieve this, I may consider reintroducing things like scalp massage or dermarolling. In my current state of health, I think they're largely counterproductive.

My point with the proteolytic enzymes is it takes time to nail down the central issue to each person - whether that's thyroid or not. Why would you not want something that literally eats the biofilm that causes fibrosis/calcification and fights off runaway inflammation while you figure that out? Something your body has lost 50% by the age of 27? All the other supplements require strict management i.e. you have to take them at certain times of the day, can't be mixed with certain others, commonly cause others to be imbalanced, and on and on and on.

Proteolytic enzymes by all accounts don't have that problem. The only real reported issue is for people on blood thinners because the enzymes are naturally going to thin your blood anyways by removing debris.

 

[JDreamer]

I've tried pretty much every supplement you can imagine, but none of them helped much. Increasing my caloric intake with starch has been the best thing for improving temps, ironically. It's not a stress reaction either, as I feel much calmer after eating a meal high in white potato or rice. I spent a long time on a sugar only diet with high liquid content and it was making the situation worse. This alone was enough to get my mid-afternoon temps from 36.2 to ~36.8. I tried the typical anti-ffa substances like niacinamide and aspirin, but they don't budge my temps at all. Thyroid increased it a lot, but it quickly caused a stress reaction after a week so I stopped.

The biggest thing holding me back at the moment is extremely poor digestion. I have a severe bacterial infection in my gut from years of hypothyrodism which carrot salad and mushrooms cannot fix. I've put off starting a low dose of penicillin vk for a while now, but after finding a few helpful studies on the subject I'm going to start a course next week. I think the reduced endotoxin load (which right now is very high) and the increased uptake and utilization of macro- and micronutrients will go a long way to raising my temps. I believe it will also allow me to tolerate thyroid better.

I have this same problem. Severe bloating no matter what I eat and constant inflammation. It's crazy how different my belly looks when I wake up vs. end of the day.

When I trace the steps it all started after a severe infection I had in my mouth back in 2005 that I got really sick from. Between that and the high powered round of antibiotics I took for it - my digestion was never the same. It's also the reason I often don't get enough calories in during the day.

 

[JDreamer]

Hair loss is an inflammatory disease caused by nutrient deficiencies and caloric excess. Hormones are associated with inflammation, big deal... It’s all extremely simple and goes something like this: (whatever combination of good or bad hormones in the follicle cell) X inflammation X personal genetic threshold = hair loss

We can speculate all day about which hormone is GOOD or BAD which seems extremely simplistic and binary to me, we can talk genetics for decades... if inflammation is 0, there’s no hair loss.

there’s nothing else.

Bottom 3 boxes aren’t relevant here, everything else remains.

It’s all diet, thats why people can’t figure it out.

Sorry for being redundant, but the point I brought up with proteolytic enzymes is that based on the science of it - while you're figuring out why inflammatory signals start to cascade in the first place - you can take the pro-e's to counter the excessive immune system CIC's and other cytokines that are most definitely contributing to baldness.