Haidut's Bulgarian Bioenergtic Burger

haidut

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I tried making the burgers for the first time and they were disgusting but it wasnt the calcium powder - it was the very lean ground beef I used, these burgers were truly awful lol. I really think you want atleast 20% fat ratio in there for a good burger. Also there may be something to be said for packing the burger too tight, you dont want to beat the meat up so to speak, according to youtube chefs :)

After your burger is prepared do you fry them in a pan on the stove?

The burgers are such a great idea for those on a budget, I just need to learn to cook properly. I think its a game changer for me if I can learn to make them. Im squuemish with gelatin and with powdered supplements so this is something Im really going to experiment with.

The burgers + Fries in HCO + coke is a super cheap, super tasty way to boost calcium, get gelatin and nutrients. Its like the perfect diet for me taste and budget wise. Only downside is starch in potatoes.

I have tried fried in butter or coconut oil, grilled in the stove with some cheese in top of them, and grilled too. All of those seem to work well, provided (like you said) the meat is not too lean and has some fat to allow the burger to stay together and not look/taste like charred slab of meat.
 
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tankasnowgod

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You’re not concerned with milk alkali syndrome with such a high calcium carbonate intake?

Not really. Peat has suggested that up to 5g of calcium a day is safe, based on the Masai. I made a thread about how William Brown likely got 5g of calcium a day during the "Extremely Low Fat Experiment" that Peat has mentioned a few times-


I also posted some studies recently where calcium in various forms was used in high doses, sometimes for extended periods of time (up to a year). No mention was made of Milk Alkali syndrome-


Most patients seem to be under or at 5g a day, but there was one patient listed in one of the studies who took 17.5g of calcium carbonate a day.

When I've seen case studies of Milk Alkalai syndrome, it's usually either taking milk and baking soda in high doses chronically for months, or when someone eats more than 20g of Calcium Carbonate a day, usually as an "antacid." One lady consumed an entire bottle of something like Tums in 3 days, along with her "normal" calcium supplements.

One of the reasons I wanted to try higher doses, was as I have been consuming phosphate rich foods for a while, even on a more "Peat" inspired diet, and realized not paying attention to the Calcium to Phosphorus ratio might have been a mistake. So, it's my current strategy, but not blanket for everyone, and might settle into a lower calcium intake after a time.
 

Dr. B

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Not really. Peat has suggested that up to 5g of calcium a day is safe, based on the Masai. I made a thread about how William Brown likely got 5g of calcium a day during the "Extremely Low Fat Experiment" that Peat has mentioned a few times-


I also posted some studies recently where calcium in various forms was used in high doses, sometimes for extended periods of time (up to a year). No mention was made of Milk Alkali syndrome-


Most patients seem to be under or at 5g a day, but there was one patient listed in one of the studies who took 17.5g of calcium carbonate a day.

When I've seen case studies of Milk Alkalai syndrome, it's usually either taking milk and baking soda in high doses chronically for months, or when someone eats more than 20g of Calcium Carbonate a day, usually as an "antacid." One lady consumed an entire bottle of something like Tums in 3 days, along with her "normal" calcium supplements.

One of the reasons I wanted to try higher doses, was as I have been consuming phosphate rich foods for a while, even on a more "Peat" inspired diet, and realized not paying attention to the Calcium to Phosphorus ratio might have been a mistake. So, it's my current strategy, but not blanket for everyone, and might settle into a lower calcium intake after a time.

has Peat confirmed if he's referring to 5g calcium in any form like a supplement, or just 5g calcium as in from diet and milk? I've asked him numerous times about a wide variety of nutrients and amino acids and his answer is always he doesn't recommend supplementing any nutrients, and that sometimes the drug effect of supplementing a nutrient temporarily is worth the side effects or that it may be necessary to supplement something temporarily to fix a problem. i've asked about taurine, creatine, vitamin b6, zinc, b vitamins in general, copper, and a bunch of other things. dont think i specifically asked of calcium carbonate.

also did William Brown supplement the calcium or got it all from diet? and are you using any cheeses/sauces on your burger
 
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Dr. B

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I have tried fried in butter or coconut oil, grilled in the stove with some cheese in top of them, and grilled too. All of those seem to work well, provided (like you said) the meat is not too lean and has some fat to allow the burger to stay together and not look/taste like charred slab of meat.
are you using any cheese, sauces, or buns? buns are usually at best neutral, sometimes improve flavor, sometimes worsen it. but the cheeses and sauces can do a lot to improve the flavor. i used to make some ground beef with just an egg or two mixed in, also tasted good.
 
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tankasnowgod

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has Peat confirmed if he's referring to 5g calcium in any form like a supplement, or just 5g calcium as in from diet and milk? I've asked him numerous times about a wide variety of nutrients and amino acids and his answer is always he doesn't recommend supplementing any nutrients, and that sometimes the drug effect of supplementing a nutrient temporarily is worth the side effects or that it may be necessary to supplement something temporarily to fix a problem. i've asked about taurine, creatine, vitamin b6, zinc, b vitamins in general, copper, and a bunch of other things. dont think i specifically asked of calcium carbonate.

also did William Brown supplement the calcium or got it all from diet? and are you using any cheeses/sauces on your burger

Pretty much all the answers all already in this thread, or the threads I linked.

I don't know why you keep on asking about cheese and sauces. I haven't used any sauces, I have used cheese. Sometimes I just eat it plain, but I've also been using tortillas recently. I've been heating them up with coconut oil. That's really good. But you can make it however you want. If you like ketchup or BBQ sauce or honey or whatever, go for it!

If you look at the William Brown thread, those are my calculations based on diet. Peat mentioned the 5g in relation to the Masai, so that's diet exclusive, but he has also recommended eggshell calcium, and told stories of people who benefit from that. But I also posted some studies using high doses of calcium in various forms, and not reporting any problems (or only minor transient ones if anything). I like supplemental Ca Carbonate personally, and it's working for me right now. That's the same form found in eggshell and oyster shell.
 

Dr. B

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Pretty much all the answers all already in this thread, or the threads I linked.

I don't know why you keep on asking about cheese and sauces. I haven't used any sauces, I have used cheese. Sometimes I just eat it plain, but I've also been using tortillas recently. I've been heating them up with coconut oil. That's really good. But you can make it however you want. If you like ketchup or BBQ sauce or honey or whatever, go for it!

If you look at the William Brown thread, those are my calculations based on diet. Peat mentioned the 5g in relation to the Masai, so that's diet exclusive, but he has also recommended eggshell calcium, and told stories of people who benefit from that. But I also posted some studies using high doses of calcium in various forms, and not reporting any problems (or only minor transient ones if anything). I like supplemental Ca Carbonate personally, and it's working for me right now. That's the same form found in eggshell and oyster shell.
interesting. the carbonate form, increases CO2 as well somehow iirc? do you know what form is found in bovine bone, would that be calcium phosphate, also do eggshells/oyster shells contain any phosphorus or is it pure calcium
 

SuperStressed

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@tankasnowgod

I bought a mini fryer. The instructions say to only use the oil 8 times before using a new batch of oil. Do you know anything about reusing HCO over and over again, is it safe to keep doing until it runs out?
 
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tankasnowgod

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@tankasnowgod

I bought a mini fryer. The instructions say to only use the oil 8 times before using a new batch of oil. Do you know anything about reusing HCO over and over again, is it safe to keep doing until it runs out?

I use at as many times as can, and don't count. I'm sure it's a lot more than 8. Basically, as long as it stays clean. It's over 98% saturated, and the PUFAs and Oleic Acid are now Stearic, so it can take a lot more than most of the high PUFA oils used for deep frying nowadays (and even normal coconut oil). So, oxidation and rancidity aren't much of a concern. Most people aren't using oils anywhere near as saturated and stable as HCO.

I did try it with tallow I rendered from Brisket fat, and did notice that it started to smell off after few uses (maybe it was about 8). HCO, never get an issue like that.

You could probably even clean it and reuse it for longer. Something similar to using the wet method to render tallow-


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4UiZe4mjmg
 
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Doc Sandoz

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Yep, it is just hydrolyzed gelatin so it should be even easier to mix with the ground meat.
Just tried your recipe but using collagen hydrolysate, Haidut. Had the burger without bun or condiments, just S&P. Not only was it juicier, it seemed more flavorful, and was even much easier to make into a relatively thin patty (I don't care for thick domed burgers) without the typical splitting at the edges. Will use your formula going forward!
 

Dr. B

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I use at as many times as can, and don't count. I'm sure it's a lot more than 8. Basically, as long as it stays clean. It's over 98% saturated, and the PUFAs and Oleic Acid are now Stearic, so it can take a lot more than most of the high PUFA oils used for deep frying nowadays (and even normal coconut oil). So, oxidation and rancidity aren't much of a concern. Most people aren't using oils anywhere near as saturated and stable as HCO.

I did try it with tallow I rendered from Brisket fat, and did notice that it started to smell off after few uses (maybe it was about 8). HCO, never get an issue like that.

You could probably even clean it and reuse it for longer. Something similar to using the wet method to render tallow-


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4UiZe4mjmg

has anyone tried beeswax for cooking? people on here were using it to chew as a gum replacement. im looking at some options on amazon. but i was looking into it and its apparently very saturated fat, made of entirely saturated fat and long chain alcohols. it actually remains solid at room temperature, i wonder if its even more saturated than regular coconut oil. im not sure how it would work with cooking.
 

Sefton10

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has anyone tried beeswax for cooking? people on here were using it to chew as a gum replacement. im looking at some options on amazon. but i was looking into it and its apparently very saturated fat, made of entirely saturated fat and long chain alcohols. it actually remains solid at room temperature, i wonder if its even more saturated than regular coconut oil. im not sure how it would work with cooking.
I think @Hans does in his beef
 

jnklheimer

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My recipe is 3g of powdered dried eggshell per 250g of lean beef and 1/2tspoon of salt. I also add 5g of gelatin to this mix. It’s really good. The eggshell can make the burger a little gritty, so make sure to really powder it well with a mortar and pestle if you are serving guests.
 
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tankasnowgod

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Awesome! It looks like quite a few people liked the recipe and have been emailing me about it too saying they saw it on the forum.
One thing you may want to try adding is, as @Drareg mentioned, a raw egg or two. You crack them open, scramble them then pour into the ground beef mix and mash it all together. The eggs and gelatin help keep the burgers from getting crumbly. I have done a few more experiments with adding more calcium and if the eggs are present, you could make a mix that would provide calcium:phosphorus ratio of up to 2:1 per burger/unit of meat without it tasting chalky. It is not for the faint of heart though. The combination of coconut oil, gelatin and other protein from the meat raises metabolic rate quite a bit and adding a hefty dose of calcium on top of that can get a bit too much in this heat the US is enduring right now. So, if the 2:1 calcium:phosphorus version is made and consumed, I'd not ear more than a single burger per meal :):
Btw, I also prefer the coconut oil to olive oil. Will try to share more details on future podcasts with Danny, but long-story-short - I do not get good effects from progesterone dissolved in tocopherols and mixed with olive or other oils. However, I get amazing digestive and mental/muscle effects from progesterone dissolved in tocopherols and using a bit of MCT as the second solvent. If the amount of MCT is less than 50% of the volume when used as the second solvent it does not have allergenic or irritating effects (at least for me, using up to 25 drops of the mix daily) but it seems to provide benefits that other oils don't. Not sure what the reason may be but one possibility is that the medium chain fatty acids in coconut oil act as phyto-androgens and also seem to stimulate steroid update into the cell more than fatty acids found in olive oil do. See Fig. 14 in the study below.

I've done it now a couple times with the eggs, and you're right, it's even better. First, I tried with 3g of Calcium Carbonate, and it was really good, even better than the original recipe. Next, I did double the calcium to 6g and did 15g of Gelatin, and it was still great. When I did higher doses of calcium without the eggs, it was still good, but I noticed areas where it got "chalky," and sometimes they would get a bit crumbly, too, as you mentioned. With the eggs, 6g of Ca Carbonate, and 15 Gelatin, it's just juicy and consistent all the way through.

I noticed it also seemed more resistant to heat when cooking with the eggs. It's like they help make me a more consistent and better cook.

Regardless, they were delicious and juicy. I'm sure I'll be using this recipe a lot.
 

Doc Sandoz

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has anyone tried beeswax for cooking? people on here were using it to chew as a gum replacement. im looking at some options on amazon. but i was looking into it and its apparently very saturated fat, made of entirely saturated fat and long chain alcohols. it actually remains solid at room temperature, i wonder if its even more saturated than regular coconut oil. im not sure how it would work with cooking.
I've been thinking about getting beeswax to chew for the polycosonols. I wonder if anyone has done it and noticed any effect.
 

Dr. B

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I've been thinking about getting beeswax to chew for the polycosonols. I wonder if anyone has done it and noticed any effect.
swanson sells a policosanol supplement apparently

I've done it now a couple times with the eggs, and you're right, it's even better. First, I tried with 3g of Calcium Carbonate, and it was really good, even better than the original recipe. Next, I did double the calcium to 6g and did 15g of Gelatin, and it was still great. When I did higher doses of calcium without the eggs, it was still good, but I noticed areas where it got "chalky," and sometimes they would get a bit crumbly, too, as you mentioned. With the eggs, 6g of Ca Carbonate, and 15 Gelatin, it's just juicy and consistent all the way through.

I noticed it also seemed more resistant to heat when cooking with the eggs. It's like they help make me a more consistent and better cook.

Regardless, they were delicious and juicy. I'm sure I'll be using this recipe a lot.

hey mate do you think a burger bun could be made using just a mixture of potato and egg? I guess it would be messy if eaten with bare hands due to the fats from the eggs and potato but it could work especially if wrapped in lettuce. some restaurants and grocery stores offer "potato buns" but theyre actually just wheat buns with potato mixed in.
 

Inabruzzo

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So on Last Night's Livestream with Danny Roddy (#59), @haidut shared a recipe for burgers-


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGwTthwL5EI


The idea is to add more calcium to get the ratio closer to 3:2 to phosphate (or even higher), and to improve the amino acid composition.

He suggested that 10 grams of gelatin per pound would be good. I was less clear on how much calcium carbonate to add, so I looked up phosphorus on Nutrition Data-


It seems that one ounce of ground beef has around 50mg of phosphorus (using raw values). So, one pound should have about 800mg. That means you'd want at least 1200mg calcium to get it to 3:2. There's 600mg of calcium in 1.5g of calcium carbonate.

I also have pretty lean beef (91% lean from Costco), so thought I would add in Hydrogenated Coconut Oil to get it closer to 80/20. So, the recipe for me was-

1 pound 91/9 ground beef
10 grams of gelatin
3 grams Calcium Carbonate
40 grams Hydrogenated Coconut Oil.

I mixed it all up, made two burgers (one for lunch, the other for dinner). I just ate the one for lunch, and I can say....

It was easily the best tasting burger I have cooked in well over a year, maybe ever. I just had it plain, so it stands well on it's own (I did have a soda with lunch).

There was zero chalk taste or sense at this level. It might be worth experimenting with higher doses of calcium. Haidut suggested it was 1g of calcium per burger, which would be closer to 10g of calcium carbonate in a pound of beef, if he was making traditional quarter pound burgers.

I did start feeling warmer within 10 minutes or so after eating, including in hands and feet (although I have gotten similar effects with Coconut Oil in other foods). I took my temp, and it was 99.4. So, pro metabolic, confirmed!

I am "Nixtamalizing" some potatoes to fry for dinner, so there could be a super metabolic combo for the standard meal of "Burger, Fries, Coke."

This is my new favorite topic I’d rather read about burgers, then the downfall of western civ. ???
 

TripleOG

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I think increasing calcium can be constipating, in the short term, especially if you take a larger dose than your used too (and concentrated pills of carbonate might make it worse).

When I first tried the milk diet, I got the absolute worst case of constipation of my life. But I think I went from relatively low calcium (maybe around 500mg a day, paleo-ish) to more than 2 grams, from a half gallon of milk.

This time, increased from about 1.5 grams a day to around 4 or 5 grams a day. I did notice a bit slower transit time for about a week, but that seems to have abated. Increasing calcium chronically over time is actually supposed to help solve constipation.

An update: I started playing with thyroid again and can suddenly handle large amounts of calcium like a champ. Two day adjustment period, now everything is normalized. Feels good.
 

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