Haidut's Bulgarian Bioenergtic Burger

[TripleOG]

Recipe is near identical to common meatloaf recipes.

Made both calcium carbonate burgers and meatloaf. I couldn't tell a difference in taste. Delicious either way. Less constipating than straight eggshell/calcium carbonate, but constipating nontheless for me.

 

[SuperStressed]

Eating the burgers in a masa tortilla is another idea

 

[Dr. B]

Awesome! It looks like quite a few people liked the recipe and have been emailing me about it too saying they saw it on the forum.
One thing you may want to try adding is, as @Drareg mentioned, a raw egg or two. You crack them open, scramble them then pour into the ground beef mix and mash it all together. The eggs and gelatin help keep the burgers from getting crumbly. I have done a few more experiments with adding more calcium and if the eggs are present, you could make a mix that would provide calcium:phosphorus ratio of up to 2:1 per burger/unit of meat without it tasting chalky. It is not for the faint of heart though. The combination of coconut oil, gelatin and other protein from the meat raises metabolic rate quite a bit and adding a hefty dose of calcium on top of that can get a bit too much in this heat the US is enduring right now. So, if the 2:1 calcium:phosphorus version is made and consumed, I'd not ear more than a single burger per meal
Btw, I also prefer the coconut oil to olive oil. Will try to share more details on future podcasts with Danny, but long-story-short - I do not get good effects from progesterone dissolved in tocopherols and mixed with olive or other oils. However, I get amazing digestive and mental/muscle effects from progesterone dissolved in tocopherols and using a bit of MCT as the second solvent. If the amount of MCT is less than 50% of the volume when used as the second solvent it does not have allergenic or irritating effects (at least for me, using up to 25 drops of the mix daily) but it seems to provide benefits that other oils don't. Not sure what the reason may be but one possibility is that the medium chain fatty acids in coconut oil act as phyto-androgens and also seem to stimulate steroid update into the cell more than fatty acids found in olive oil do. See Fig. 14 in the study below.

Novel phytoandrogens and lipidic augmenters from Eucommia ulmoides

Plants containing compounds such as the isoflavonoids, with female hormone-like effects that bind to human estrogen receptors, are known. But none has been previously shown to have corresponding male hormone-like effects that interact with the human androgen ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

mate what are ya'll using for the burger buns or by burger do you mean just the beef patty, no cheese/burger included?
buns have issues of their own, and cheese has issues of its own... Ray said the citric acid as well as microbial/vegetarian enzymes commonly used in cheese are highly allergenic/inflammatory... probably due to the fungus or mold used to make them.
you can likely find ready made burger places which offer grass fed burgers, cooked in nothing but their own fat, but the cheese and buns and sauces have issues of their own! its near impossible to find a cheddar/american cheese made without sodium citrate and microbial enzymes

 

[SuperStressed]

mate what are ya'll using for the burger buns or by burger do you mean just the beef patty, no cheese/burger included?
buns have issues of their own, and cheese has issues of its own... Ray said the citric acid as well as microbial/vegetarian enzymes commonly used in cheese are highly allergenic/inflammatory... probably due to the fungus or mold used to make them.
you can likely find ready made burger places which offer grass fed burgers, cooked in nothing but their own fat, but the cheese and buns and sauces have issues of their own! its near impossible to find a cheddar/american cheese made without sodium citrate and microbial enzymes

Hey, not speaking for him but I highly doubt he's eating a bun with it. As for cheese, Tilamook (sp?) might be a good option, Danny Roddy uses that, maybe Ray does. You can find cheddars without the crap, more costly though.

IF you want a bun you could toast some good sourdough or even safer use the burger in a masa tortilla.

 

[Dr. B]

Hey, not speaking for him but I highly doubt he's eating a bun with it. As for cheese, Tilamook (sp?) might be a good option, Danny Roddy uses that, maybe Ray does. You can find cheddars without the crap, more costly though.

they actually use animal rennet, no sodium citrate or fillers?
i think they also make ice cream, which does have some fillers, but i think its less than other ones. i think it was like some safer gums than carrageenan.
some burgers taste better without the bun. like five guys bun is pretty gross, has a kind of sweet taste to it, whereas patties in a lettuce wrap are much better imo

 

[SuperStressed]

they actually use animal rennet, no sodium citrate or fillers?
i think they also make ice cream, which does have some fillers, but i think its less than other ones. i think it was like some safer gums than carrageenan.
some burgers taste better without the bun. like five guys bun is pretty gross, has a kind of sweet taste to it, whereas patties in a lettuce wrap are much better imo

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/zVytZWhGg8/?modal=true

 

[tankasnowgod]

Recipe is near identical to common meatloaf recipes.

Made both calcium carbonate burgers and meatloaf. I couldn't tell a difference in taste. Delicious either way. Less constipating than straight eggshell/calcium carbonate, but constipating nontheless for me.

I think increasing calcium can be constipating, in the short term, especially if you take a larger dose than your used too (and concentrated pills of carbonate might make it worse).

When I first tried the milk diet, I got the absolute worst case of constipation of my life. But I think I went from relatively low calcium (maybe around 500mg a day, paleo-ish) to more than 2 grams, from a half gallon of milk.

This time, increased from about 1.5 grams a day to around 4 or 5 grams a day. I did notice a bit slower transit time for about a week, but that seems to have abated. Increasing calcium chronically over time is actually supposed to help solve constipation.

 

[tankasnowgod]

what buns are you using, can you share those. any cheeses, sauces?

Sometimes I will add cheese. No bun, I usually just eat it on a plate. Although I have used corn tortillas recently, and those were awesome. There's a Mexican supermarket near me that makes their own the traditional way-


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou0fIIYDSlw


I've seen lot's of benefits from going "No Starch," but been eating a bit more recently with the tortillas. It's pretty awesome, they are still warm in the package in the store.

 

[Dr. B]

Sometimes I will add cheese. No bun, I usually just eat it on a plate. Although I have used corn tortillas recently, and those were awesome. There's a Mexican supermarket near me that makes their own the traditional way-


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou0fIIYDSlw


I've seen lot's of benefits from going "No Starch," but been eating a bit more recently with the tortillas. It's pretty awesome, they are still warm in the package in the store.

interesting. are those nixtamalized tortillas? those are the only starch ray currently eats i think

 

[TripleOG]

I think increasing calcium can be constipating, in the short term, especially if you take a larger dose than your used too (and concentrated pills of carbonate might make it worse).

When I first tried the milk diet, I got the absolute worst case of constipation of my life. But I think I went from relatively low calcium (maybe around 500mg a day, paleo-ish) to more than 2 grams, from a half gallon of milk.

This time, increased from about 1.5 grams a day to around 4 or 5 grams a day. I did notice a bit slower transit time for about a week, but that seems to have abated. Increasing calcium chronically over time is actually supposed to help solve constipation.

Interesting.

I’m fine with calcium from foods. They actually feel bowel promoting. It’s the carbonate supps I wrestle with. I’ll try titrating up slower and give it a longer run before stopping.

You’re not concerned with milk alkali syndrome with such a high calcium carbonate intake?

 

[Dr. B]

Interesting.

I’m fine with calcium from foods. They actually feel bowel promoting. It’s the carbonate supps I wrestle with. I’ll try titrating up slower and give it a longer run before stopping.

You’re not concerned with milk alkali syndrome with such a high calcium carbonate intake?

they name that symptom milk alkali but i dont think youd ever get it from actually drinking milk due to the phosphorus and vitamin A in milk.

 

[TripleOG]

they name that symptom milk alkali but i dont think youd ever get it from actually drinking milk due to the phosphorus and vitamin A in milk.

Correct but IIRC @tankasnowgod has been experimenting with high calcium carbonate intakes to reach 4g-5g elemental calcium.

 

[boris]

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/zVytZWhGg8/?modal=true

Ray Peat [from the email advice depository 2016]:
"The Tillamook cheese process has been changed, so only what’s currently aging has the traditional composition."

Danny's post is from 2015.

 

[Dr. B]

Ray Peat [from the email advice depository 2016]:
"The Tillamook cheese process has been changed, so only what’s currently aging has the traditional composition."

Danny's post is from 2015.

i think if it says animal rennet in ingredients you should be good? also from what ive seen all the pecorino romano cheeses have animal rennet? theyre tough to eat though, the taste is so strong

 

[boris]

i think if it says animal rennet in ingredients you should be good? also from what ive seen all the pecorino romano cheeses have animal rennet? theyre tough to eat though, the taste is so strong

Mostly yes. But some of the cheese cultures can cause problems, even if it uses animal rennet.

Tillamook is not good anymore unfortunately

Cheese - What is rennet? What types of rennet do you use to make your cheese? - FAQ

What is rennet? What types of rennet do you use to make your cheese?

www.tillamook.com

For a few of our aged white cheddar cheeses (Tillamook Medium White Cheddar, Sharp White, Vintage Extra Sharp White Cheddar, 3 Year Aged Vintage Extra Sharp White, and Smoked Vintage White Extra Sharp), we have historically used a traditional, bovine rennet that was not considered vegetarian. However, we have recently transitioned to exclusively use the fermentation-produced, vegetarian-friendly rennet. Please note that while we have already begun making our aged white cheddars with the veggie-friendly rennet, these cheeses are naturally aged anywhere from 60 days to 3 years, so depending on the cheese, it will take some time for the new white cheddar to reach stores.

 

[Dr. B]

Mostly yes. But some of the cheese cultures can cause problems, even if it uses animal rennet.

Tillamook is not good anymore unfortunately

Cheese - What is rennet? What types of rennet do you use to make your cheese? - FAQ

What is rennet? What types of rennet do you use to make your cheese?

www.tillamook.com

we have recently transitioned to exclusively use the fermentation-produced, vegetarian-friendly rennet

are the cheese cultures even listed on the label? ive never seen them listed.
this culture issue is related to both yogurt and cheese right? so its best to avoid dairy entirely, besides a good organic 100% grass fed milk with no additives/fillers, preferably not ultra pasteurized?

 

[boris]

are the cheese cultures even listed on the label? ive never seen them listed.
this culture issue is related to both yogurt and cheese right? so its best to avoid dairy entirely, besides a good organic 100% grass fed milk with no additives/fillers, preferably not ultra pasteurized?

In Germany the cultures are listed. Parmigiano Reggiano for example has no added cultures. Yoghurt cultures are beneficial, just the lactic acid from tart yoghurt is problematic in excess.

 

[Dr. B]

In Germany the cultures are listed. Parmigiano Reggiano for example has no added cultures. Yoghurt cultures are beneficial, just the lactic acid from tart yoghurt is problematic in excess.

you mean yogurt cultures like the list of lactobacillus casei and random things of that sort? i thought even lactobillus can contribute to autoimmunity?

 

[boris]

Yes.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3H7ED0pR8U


[Regarding the autoimmunity]
RP:There are lots of areas of similar amino acid sequences in proteins of microorganisms and animals, that are important for shaping the protein and making it fit into its normal place in the cell. Even slight “denaturation” of a protein can expose those areas, so stress, changing normal relationships, can make things antigenic. Someone found that an animal’s own cartilage, normally not antigenic, became antigenic after the cartilage was twisted. Energy depletion of a tissue makes it very susceptible to having its antigenic regions exposed; hypothyroidism, and high estrogen, make tissues swell; our “immune system” helps to correct the damage, removing things that are seriously disrupted. Progesterone and pregnenolone have a stabilizing effect, supported by thyroid and CO2. When the damaged tissues are restored, the antibodies will gradually disappear.

 

[haidut]

Would Collagen Hydroslysate work as well as gelatin? Has basically the same amino profile, but would it bind the burger like gelatin?

Yep, it is just hydrolyzed gelatin so it should be even easier to mix with the ground meat.