Haidut quote on Gambling.

[Mr Joe]

Everyone in this forum seems to say that gambling addiction is a bad thing and I would agree that any addiction is bad and could be driven by stress hormones. But how about the "feeling" of gambling. I mean, what are we talking about ? When I'm playing video game ? When I walk in a garden and imagining what could be my futur if I succed in something ? Finding motivation on work to get some rewards or just talking to a random girl in order to have a date ? All these are not gambling ? I'm also spending some time trading Crypto and it's the rare time where I forget that world is ***t and I forget troubles and enjoy graphs and see that like a game. What should we understand by gambling ?

I enjoy walking and hopping that tomorrow would be better, and I get excited a lot, and feel increased dopamine just with thinking and some music. Is it the same as "gambling" ?

Thx for all informations guys ! @haidut if you have time !

 

[opethfeldt]

I think gambling is pretty much the same as any other "quick fix" for dopamine. Do they work? Yeah. In the short term. I think we should strive to have a life fulfilling enough to not need these little hits of dopamine, though. When your life itself is fulfilling, you become truly happy and have no need for anything external to "prop you up" so to speak. I don't think there's any shame in using these quick fixes while we work on cultivating a fulfilling life, though.

 

[Mr Joe]

I think gambling is pretty much the same as any other "quick fix" for dopamine. Do they work? Yeah. In the short term. I think we should strive to have a life fulfilling enough to not need these little hits of dopamine, though. When your life itself is fulfilling, you become truly happy and have no need for anything external to "prop you up" so to speak. I don't think there's any shame in using these quick fixes while we work on cultivating a fulfilling life, though.

But isn't walking in a garden while dreaming and for exemple thinking about some event that will come tomorrow (for exemple an exciting meeting or just a holiday coming) not part of the life ? Does this feeling not stimulating dopamine as well ? How that stimulation is different for "gambling" ?

 

[Mr Joe]

I enjoy drinking a cofee every morning and then having a walk. I do it almost everyday and it gives me a lot of pleasure (Dopamine?). Does it mean that this is like having an addiction ?

 

[opethfeldt]

But isn't walking in a garden while dreaming and for exemple thinking about some event that will come tomorrow (for exemple an exciting meeting or just a holiday coming) not part of the life ? Does this feeling not stimulating dopamine as well ? How that stimulation is different for "gambling" ?

I wasn't including that in the same category. Such an activity is certainly healthy and would fit into what I'm labeled a "fulfilling life".

 

[Mr Joe]

So by "fulfilling" we mean here "diversify" right ? As long as dopamine receptors are excited by many things that is right ? Compare to an "addict" that finds dopamine sensivity just in one or two things (and that makes him dependent) right ?

 

[opethfeldt]

I enjoy drinking a cofee every morning and then having a walk. I do it almost everyday and it gives me a lot of pleasure (Dopamine?). Does it mean that this is like having an addiction ?

For something to be called an addition, I think you'd have to experience some kind of withdrawal upon discontinuation of its use. Coffee doesn't do that, at least for me. Maybe some headaches if I do it cold turkey. Anyway, we don't have to live like monks and have only the most basic of stimulation. There's nothing wrong with doing that if you're called to it but using some basic substances that don't have any withdrawal properties is certainly nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[somuch4food]

For me, addictions are pleasurable in the moment, but hurt after the fact, hence the vicious cycle of an addiction. You constantly seek the same buzz, but are never really satisfied by it and need to repeat the experience over and over again to achieve the same feeling.

They are also driven by impulses whereas other activities will be more deliberate.

 

[Kayaker]

Eventually, you get bored of doing something and you move on. Addiction to activity that isn't useful is unfortunate, but once it occurs, you can either throw away a lot of energy trying to resist, or you throw away a lot of time tiring of it.

 

[Mr Joe]

Thx for answers guys. Would you qualify praying every day to feel better, find hope (self calm and dopamine) as an addiction ?

 

[Razvan]

Gambling is driven by high androgens especially hight DHT,if you enter a shop where they gamble you can find the most fearless and androgenic people in the city even tho they are not so healthy.

 

[Steed]

Gambling is driven by high androgens especially hight DHT,if you enter a shop where they gamble you can find the most fearless and androgenic people in the city even tho they are not so healthy.

Interesting take. I think that most hard gamblers are chasing dopamine, although they do not necessarily know it. There is maybe something missing and that rush of excitement, sometimes winning, revs up dopamin temporarely, likely not long term. This has been shown in studies, I believe both in-vitro and in-vivo. I dont think androgens has much to do with it. Most gamblers are not in their early 20s. Rush of dopamin is pretty powerful stuff.

 

[haidut]

Everyone in this forum seems to say that gambling addiction is a bad thing and I would agree that any addiction is bad and could be driven by stress hormones. But how about the "feeling" of gambling. I mean, what are we talking about ? When I'm playing video game ? When I walk in a garden and imagining what could be my futur if I succed in something ? Finding motivation on work to get some rewards or just talking to a random girl in order to have a date ? All these are not gambling ? I'm also spending some time trading Crypto and it's the rare time where I forget that world is ***t and I forget troubles and enjoy graphs and see that like a game. What should we understand by gambling ?

I enjoy walking and hopping that tomorrow would be better, and I get excited a lot, and feel increased dopamine just with thinking and some music. Is it the same as "gambling" ?

Thx for all informations guys ! @haidut if you have time !

If it is done recreationally, and not with large sums of money that can ruin your life if lost, I think it can be beneficial if you feel it provides a feeling of novelty and excitement. Quite a few people play poker with fake money and say it makes them feel great. However, if it is one of the few things that gives you a "thrill" then I would try to determine why that is so as it could be due to things like lack of close relationships, chronic stress, etc. It is well-known that even normal people experience alcohol cravings when under severe stress. Indulging in those every once in a while, especially if there is no other immediate alternative, is probably OK but if it becomes the default method for dealing with stress/issues then it is time to change some things in your life so that you don't have to "medicate" yourself with things that can cause severe issues (or financial ruin) down the line.
Just my 2c.

 

[Kayaker]

Gambling is driven by high androgens especially hight DHT,if you enter a shop where they gamble you can find the most fearless and androgenic people in the city even tho they are not so healthy.

Gambling parlors are shady places. I bet you'd see the same walking into certain bars, the ones that unwholesome characters gather in.

The people who play gatcha games, on the other hand, seem to be not so fearless or androgenic.

 

[Eberhardt]

Its sort of easy at least in theory to explain the difference. It could be called an addiction if its done because you feel compelled and cannot resist it. If you are actually free to choose (and not only telling yourself so). The addiction is not in the pleasure it provides but the lack of choise and agency on part of the person seeking the pleasure. If you get nervous and agitated by not walking in the garden (from actually not doing it, not from lack of stress-relief) then sure it could be an addiction. Its just the question of how much freedom you have towards the stimuli, good or bad.

 

[Mr Joe]

If it is done recreationally, and not with large sums of money that can ruin your life if lost, I think it can be beneficial if you feel it provides a feeling of novelty and excitement. Quite a few people play poker with fake money and say it makes them feel great. However, if it is one of the few things that gives you a "thrill" then I would try to determine why that is so as it could be due to things like lack of close relationships, chronic stress, etc. It is well-known that even normal people experience alcohol cravings when under severe stress. Indulging in those every once in a while, especially if there is no other immediate alternative, is probably OK but if it becomes the default method for dealing with stress/issues then it is time to change some things in your life so that you don't have to "medicate" yourself with things that can cause severe issues (or financial ruin) down the line.
Just my 2c.

Thx @haidut. No actually I can have the feeling of novelty and excitement doing many things, for exemple after a gym watching the results of a training in the mirror, during meditation, or only spending time in forums like that reading. No one can say that life is not stressful these days (especially in big cities) so yes, having a walk in green garden with sweet cofee in hands could feel like a necessity (so addictive ?). The question would be then : Is being addict to something good for us a bad thing ? Is being addict to avoiding Pufa, or being addict to daily orange juice a bad thing ? I think I should understand more how works dopamine receptors.

Its sort of easy at least in theory to explain the difference. It could be called an addiction if its done because you feel compelled and cannot resist it. If you are actually free to choose (and not only telling yourself so). The addiction is not in the pleasure it provides but the lack of choise and agency on part of the person seeking the pleasure. If you get nervous and agitated by not walking in the garden (from actually not doing it, not from lack of stress-relief) then sure it could be an addiction. Its just the question of how much freedom you have towards the stimuli, good or bad.

I would not say that not walking in a garden is the thing that makes me nervous, I would just say that the lack of breaking the stress daily work of life is what makes me nervous. Finding a job that you enjoy is not something easy, takes time and money before jumping. I pointed out that lot of people in my company think that they are addict to cofee while in fact they are addict to "the break behind cofee", stopping work few minutes and drink a cofee and simply having a break. So I will say : Life is stressful and increase cortisol, having breaks or playing video games (for exemple or any other activity) deconnect from stressful life.

 

[Eberhardt]

Thx @haidut. No actually I can have the feeling of novelty and excitement doing many things, for exemple after a gym watching the results of a training in the mirror, during meditation, or only spending time in forums like that reading. No one can say that life is not stressful these days (especially in big cities) so yes, having a walk in green garden with sweet cofee in hands could feel like a necessity (so addictive ?). The question would be then : Is being addict to something good for us a bad thing ? Is being addict to avoiding Pufa, or being addict to daily orange juice a bad thing ? I think I should understand more how works dopamine receptors.



I would not say that not walking in a garden is the thing that makes me nervous, I would just say that the lack of breaking the stress daily work of life is what makes me nervous. Finding a job that you enjoy is not something easy, takes time and money before jumping. I pointed out that lot of people in my company think that they are addict to cofee while in fact they are addict to "the break behind cofee", stopping work few minutes and drink a cofee and simply having a break. So I will say : Life is stressful and increase cortisol, having breaks or playing video games (for exemple or any other activity) deconnect from stressful life.

I definately agree with you. But then you are not addicted to it, it is just a need and a want that you fulfill :) But maybe the people are not addicted to the break, they just need it as a coping mechanism. It might, or not, be an emotional attachement but if they dont feel forced to take a break it is more a more or less good or bad coping mechanism. I am not an expert on addiction but its important to seperate the joy and pleasure from the addiction. I dont think the joy from drugs are the problem, the problem is the side effects and the cravings - thats what makes it problematic.

 

[Musonius]

I think addiction comes with a very large obsessive component (you are thinking about the addictive item a large amount of the time and can't focus on other things without it intruding). At least that's how I define it for myself, because there are things I can enjoy and then move on, but there are other things that I enjoy but then have them intrude on my thinking for many days afterwards - I consider those addictive items.

 

[pauljacob]

I fully agree with @Razvan.
And to some responders to Razvan's thoughts, he is talking about Androgenic people who gamble for high stakes and have no fear of losing. This is in contrast to gamblers who gamble desperately and get devastated when they lose. Bottom line is: if you need to make money bad, then gambling is the last thing you should do.

 

[Mr Joe]

I definately agree with you. But then you are not addicted to it, it is just a need and a want that you fulfill :) But maybe the people are not addicted to the break, they just need it as a coping mechanism. It might, or not, be an emotional attachement but if they dont feel forced to take a break it is more a more or less good or bad coping mechanism. I am not an expert on addiction but its important to seperate the joy and pleasure from the addiction. I dont think the joy from drugs are the problem, the problem is the side effects and the cravings - thats what makes it problematic.

100% ! So if we do something and after doing it we feel a satisfaction followed by the need to move to something else, its more like a pleasure. If after doing something we need to do it more like in a psychotic way without any satisfaction its an addiction. That might explain why serotonin could be in the center of that.