Gut/sleep/hormones/skin chaos despite months on RP suggestions- what am I missing?

Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
15
This is my first time posting on here and I’m a little intimidated but I thought maybe all you intelligent people could help me figure out what direction to go next in trying to get to the bottom of health issues after years of no success...

I’m 28, diagnosed with PCOS at age 21 and was on the birth control pill until last year (been off it now for one year). To my surprise, my periods returned rather quickly but so did all the dreaded symptoms of moderate-severe cystic acne on face/neck/chest, weight gain, poor digestion, constipation and insomnia. My cycle lengths are irregular in length ranging from 25-42 days. I have a history of extreme dieting and intense exercise (used to CrossFit 5-6 days a week) so I know I’ve done a bit of damage... I’ve been following RP lifestyle now for a year and no longer intensely exercise (only strength train, yoga and lots of walking) and eat at maintenance/more than I ever have.
I have the raw carrot salad most days, have lots of cheese, eggs, salt, coconut water, fruit but do tend to eat higher starch/fiber, gluten free, for the constipation and I just feel my body craves it. I take magnesium malate + topical spray, niacinamide, occasional beef liver and vitamin e (makes my breakouts horrible so only once every two weeks), collagen, gelatin gummies, bone broth and cascara. Sometimes digestive enzymes.
Of course, these changes would not have resulted in weight loss but I tried the slow and steady change and didn’t go all in at first. I’ve always been in great shape so the extra fluff is really hard. Skin is the worst it’s ever been and it makes me so miserable. Sleep is horrible.
I’ve tried cutting starch, topical progesterone (awful experience), limiting dairy and trying to cut down stress... however I admit I’m a full time PhD student and still love to weight train 3-4x a week but try my best to listen to my body! My thyroid and hormone panel is “normal” but doctor won’t test anything but the usual T4 and TSH, FSH and LH (live in the UK). I know my gut is probably a bit wrecked but my options of what I can do next feel limited and I feel so defeated and way too young to feel so awful.

if you are still reading my life story, I so appreciate it and any thoughts or observations that could be shared is doubly appreciated!!
 

mostlylurking

Member
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
349
I haven’t recently but in the past it has come back normal. It has been a long dark winter here but I get out in the sun whenever it comes out!
About the D: What's "normal" mean? Get yourself some D drops. Take 10,000 i.u./day. That equals 2 drops, under the tongue, if you get the 5000/drop kind: Vitamin D3 in MCT oil 5000 i.u. 1 ounce

Sounds like your gut is a mess. You aren't really following Ray Peat; you're dabbling occasionally. Spend time reading his articles. Don't rely on watered down 4th hand hearsay that got hopelessly garbled along the way. Here's a handy search engine: PeatSearch: a Ray Peat-specific search engine - Toxinless Use the cell on the left that searches Ray Peat articles and excludes the forum.

Buy yourself some fresh button mushrooms, around 3 pounds of fresh will be enough for maybe 4-5 days. Wash them, slice them, simmer them (covered) with a cup or so of water for at least one hour. They shrink down a LOT when cooked. Eat a generous serving each day, at least 1/2 cup. Buy more just before you run out. Do not skip the mushrooms.

Stop with the fibrous starch. The goal is to murder that massive load of gut bacterial overgrowth that is killing you with the mild antibiotic in the mushrooms. Do not feed the bacteria with fibrous starch, causing their endotoxin to explode, oozing through your intestinal wall, infiltrating your blood stream, and then erupting as pustules on your skin. Be patient. The mushrooms will take a few days to kick in. They are very safe.

I've recently had some serious gut issues myself, brought on by antibiotics taken for a bladder infection (pharmaceutical antibiotics can be hazardous to your health). In addition to the mushrooms, I've found that thiamine and magnesium have been very helpful to heal the gut.

Rub the progesterone on your gums, not on your skin. It needs to get inside you to knock out the estrogen dominance. do it in the evening a couple of hours before bed. Read up via Ray Peat's articles, find them with the article search (link above). You can also search for "progesterone" using this search engine for Ray Peat interviews: Ray Peat Search

Take the time to listen to these three:




If your estrogen is high, your thyroid function will be low. If you haven't yet removed all polyunsaturated fats from your diet your estrogen will be high and your thyroid function will be low. It they just tested T4 and TSH you have no idea where you stand with your thyroid function. These tests are not helpful.

I don't think the magnesium malate is a great choice, but I don't remember why. I use magnesium glycinate as I have inflammation issues. The search engine (provided above) yields a warning from Ray Peat about possible allergic reaction to the malate, in the form of headache. Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki Scroll down to "Magnesium".

Things that help me sleep: progesterone 2 hours before bed; a large glass of milk with hydrolized gelatin and maple syrup before bed; remember to balance the vitamin D with some vitamin A as vitamin D alone will cause insomnia. I use this one: Simply A 15,000 i.u. 1oz, on the skin, not orally. I'm using 6-7 drops/day rubbed into the lower leg. My vitamin A blood test showed that my level is mid range after using this much for a year. People are different though, so get blood tests if you can.
 
Last edited:

Mito

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Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
1,776
 

L_C

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
71
This is my first time posting on here and I’m a little intimidated but I thought maybe all you intelligent people could help me figure out what direction to go next in trying to get to the bottom of health issues after years of no success...

I’m 28, diagnosed with PCOS at age 21 and was on the birth control pill until last year (been off it now for one year). To my surprise, my periods returned rather quickly but so did all the dreaded symptoms of moderate-severe cystic acne on face/neck/chest, weight gain, poor digestion, constipation and insomnia. My cycle lengths are irregular in length ranging from 25-42 days. I have a history of extreme dieting and intense exercise (used to CrossFit 5-6 days a week) so I know I’ve done a bit of damage... I’ve been following RP lifestyle now for a year and no longer intensely exercise (only strength train, yoga and lots of walking) and eat at maintenance/more than I ever have.
I have the raw carrot salad most days, have lots of cheese, eggs, salt, coconut water, fruit but do tend to eat higher starch/fiber, gluten free, for the constipation and I just feel my body craves it. I take magnesium malate + topical spray, niacinamide, occasional beef liver and vitamin e (makes my breakouts horrible so only once every two weeks), collagen, gelatin gummies, bone broth and cascara. Sometimes digestive enzymes.
Of course, these changes would not have resulted in weight loss but I tried the slow and steady change and didn’t go all in at first. I’ve always been in great shape so the extra fluff is really hard. Skin is the worst it’s ever been and it makes me so miserable. Sleep is horrible.
I’ve tried cutting starch, topical progesterone (awful experience), limiting dairy and trying to cut down stress... however I admit I’m a full time PhD student and still love to weight train 3-4x a week but try my best to listen to my body! My thyroid and hormone panel is “normal” but doctor won’t test anything but the usual T4 and TSH, FSH and LH (live in the UK). I know my gut is probably a bit wrecked but my options of what I can do next feel limited and I feel so defeated and way too young to feel so awful.

if you are still reading my life story, I so appreciate it and any thoughts or observations that could be shared is doubly appreciated!!
Do you eat a quality protein, like steak? Liver needs a quality protein to efficiently get rid of estrogen. From reading here on the forum, the best is to high dose progesterone for 2-3 days (at least 100-150mg) before the on start of your period. If you take progesterone in lower doses, initially you might deal with estrogen withdrawal symptoms (like acne...etc.). Make sure progesterone you use is bioidentical.
 

Hirri

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2020
Messages
78
I see a lot of myself in your story so one thing comes to mind, are you still stressing about your changed body and different exercizing routine? For me this part is the most difficult and it's been 3 years since I went off of birth control and stopped overtraining and gained back weight to normal, but these demons still haunt me and I think they add up to whole hormone issues because of stress. What do you mean by sleep is horrible exactly?
 

curious_anthro

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
15
About the D: What's "normal" mean? Get yourself some D drops. Take 10,000 i.u./day. That equals 2 drops, under the tongue, if you get the 5000/drop kind: Vitamin D3 in MCT oil 5000 i.u. 1 ounce

Sounds like your gut is a mess. You aren't really following Ray Peat; you're dabbling occasionally. Spend time reading his articles. Don't rely on watered down 4th hand hearsay that got hopelessly garbled along the way. Here's a handy search engine: PeatSearch: a Ray Peat-specific search engine - Toxinless Use the cell on the left that searches Ray Peat articles and excludes the forum.

Buy yourself some fresh button mushrooms, around 3 pounds of fresh will be enough for maybe 4-5 days. Wash them, slice them, simmer them (covered) with a cup or so of water for at least one hour. They shrink down a LOT when cooked. Eat a generous serving each day, at least 1/2 cup. Buy more just before you run out. Do not skip the mushrooms.

Stop with the fibrous starch. The goal is to murder that massive load of gut bacterial overgrowth that is killing you with the mild antibiotic in the mushrooms. Do not feed the bacteria with fibrous starch, causing their endotoxin to explode, oozing through your intestinal wall, infiltrating your blood stream, and then erupting as pustules on your skin. Be patient. The mushrooms will take a few days to kick in. They are very safe.

I've recently had some serious gut issues myself, brought on by antibiotics taken for a bladder infection (pharmaceutical antibiotics can be hazardous to your health). In addition to the mushrooms, I've found that thiamine and magnesium have been very helpful to heal the gut.

Rub the progesterone on your gums, not on your skin. It needs to get inside you to knock out the estrogen dominance. do it in the evening a couple of hours before bed. Read up via Ray Peat's articles, find them with the article search (link above). You can also search for "progesterone" using this search engine for Ray Peat interviews: Ray Peat Search

Take the time to listen to these three:




If your estrogen is high, your thyroid function will be low. If you haven't yet removed all polyunsaturated fats from your diet your estrogen will be high and your thyroid function will be low. It they just tested T4 and TSH you have no idea where you stand with your thyroid function. These tests are not helpful.

I don't think the magnesium malate is a great choice, but I don't remember why. I use magnesium glycinate as I have inflammation issues. The search engine (provided above) yields a warning from Ray Peat about possible allergic reaction to the malate, in the form of headache. Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki Scroll down to "Magnesium".

Things that help me sleep: progesterone 2 hours before bed; a large glass of milk with hydrolized gelatin and maple syrup before bed; remember to balance the vitamin D with some vitamin A as vitamin D alone will cause insomnia. I use this one: Simply A 15,000 i.u. 1oz, on the skin, not orally. I'm using 6-7 drops/day rubbed into the lower leg. My vitamin A blood test showed that my level is mid range after using this much for a year. People are different though, so get blood tests if you can.
Thanks very much for such an extensive response! I accept that I might be doing a bit of a watered down version of Ray Peat but I have trialed a lot of the things you’ve said like the mushrooms and no fibrous starch, even no starch/only cooked fruit and it made the constipation so much worse! Not necessarily the mushrooms so maybe I should try again and be diligent with them as you suggested. No poop always equals terrible breakouts and sleep so that’s why I decided to add fiber back in with butternut squash, parsnips, apples, well cooked lentils and raw carrots/beets...do you think perhaps I didn’t “stick it out” long enough with no fiber approach?
Also I’m so confused re progesterone as it made everything worse and it’s seems so individual what dose to use and where to apply. I live in the UK and Ona’s is the most affordable/available. Tried the liquid and the 10% cream. I did notice the sleep help for a while but then it brought on insomnia the next cycle and severe painful cysts on my face/back... that scared me right off of ever using it!
As for the magnesium malate, I listened to a long podcast with Morley Robbins and the Strong Sisters where he mentioned it might be slightly better than glycinate but I don’t remember why... willing to give glycinate a go though. Cascara sagrada works really well for me for constipation.
I take your point about thyroid being low and vitamin D needing to be investigated. Doctors just said the level was “fine” but of course I know their metrics are wack a lot of the time. Although I am further confused as I’ve seen a lot of people in the Ray Peat and related circles say not to supplement vitamin D because it can block the absorption of retinol and low vitamin D is really just a magnesium deficiency.
I will check out your suggestions, many thanks again
 
Last edited:

curious_anthro

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Thread starter
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
15
how does the beef liver affect you
Mega breakouts so I don’t take it. I can’t stomach eating liver so tried ancestral supplements beef liver caps... vitamin E has the same effect! From what I’ve read it’s either estrogen or iron mobilizing that’s causing the reaction
 

curious_anthro

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Thread starter
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
15
Do you eat a quality protein, like steak? Liver needs a quality protein to efficiently get rid of estrogen. From reading here on the forum, the best is to high dose progesterone for 2-3 days (at least 100-150mg) before the on start of your period. If you take progesterone in lower doses, initially you might deal with estrogen withdrawal symptoms (like acne...etc.). Make sure progesterone you use is bioidentical.
I do eat a lot of protein, between 100-135g a day and try to get from a variety of lean chicken, fish, beef, venison, eggs and greek yogurt. Also collagen from bone broth and gelatin gummies.
I tried to dose bioidentical progesterone (Ona’s) 100-150mg days 14-28 of my cycle but I’m wondering if maybe I miscalculated the dose as it seemed to worsen estrogen dominance symptoms...
 

curious_anthro

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
15
I see a lot of myself in your story so one thing comes to mind, are you still stressing about your changed body and different exercizing routine? For me this part is the most difficult and it's been 3 years since I went off of birth control and stopped overtraining and gained back weight to normal, but these demons still haunt me and I think they add up to whole hormone issues because of stress. What do you mean by sleep is horrible exactly?
Yes I do stress about this and it’s helpful to hear about your experience too. The thing is I’m now slightly overweight (about 8ish lbs) and I mean I’m over what a normal healthy weight should be for my size, not the unrealistic leanness.
I am “tired and wired” at night, take ages to fall asleep and wake up several times in the night. Never feel rested when I wake up
 

Hirri

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2020
Messages
78
Yes I do stress about this and it’s helpful to hear about your experience too. The thing is I’m now slightly overweight (about 8ish lbs) and I mean I’m over what a normal healthy weight should be for my size, not the unrealistic leanness.
I am “tired and wired” at night, take ages to fall asleep and wake up several times in the night. Never feel rested when I wake up
I know how you feel. I had a perfect body for years with training and undereating (and also not talking about deadly skinny, just perfectly fit for my frame) and it was the essence of me so when I finally realised that it was very very hard to accept the new me, not only that part where I learned to slow down, not to train every day,eat whatever I wanted but also the new look in the mirror. I honestly can say it was a very long process, it took almost two years and I am still not fully there. Sleep and anxiety was one of the most severe symptoms for me and oh my how many different things I have tried. I can go into details if you want describing every single thing I did, but honestly now looking back I see that the main thing was accepting me, accepting that I am not only a body, that my mind controls everything and that stupid image of how I must look or how often I must train is just like an error installed in my long time ago. There were so many little behavioral and psychological steps in all of this. But I promise you, once you are in peace with yourself, then everything else comes in place too, especially stress, anxiety and sleep. I am not perfect yet, but comparing how I was when I started 3 years ago, I can say I am very happy. Now I track my symptoms with a journal and watch out for indicators that I might be 'off' again like irregular period, difficulties falling asleep, stress without reason etc.
 

mostlylurking

Member
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
349
Thanks very much for such an extensive response! I accept that I might be doing a bit of a watered down version of Ray Peat but I have trialed a lot of the things you’ve said like the mushrooms and no fibrous starch, even no starch/only cooked fruit and it made the constipation so much worse! Not necessarily the mushrooms so maybe I should try again and be diligent with them as you suggested. No poop always equals terrible breakouts and sleep so that’s why I decided to add fiber back in with butternut squash, parsnips, apples, well cooked lentils and raw carrots/beets...do you think perhaps I didn’t “stick it out” long enough with no fiber approach?
Also I’m so confused re progesterone as it made everything worse and it’s seems so individual what dose to use and where to apply. I live in the UK and Ona’s is the most affordable/available. Tried the liquid and the 10% cream. I did notice the sleep help for a while but then it brought on insomnia the next cycle and severe painful cysts on my face/back... that scared me right off of ever using it!
As for the magnesium malate, I listened to a long podcast with Morley Robbins and the Strong Sisters where he mentioned it might be slightly better than glycinate but I don’t remember why... willing to give glycinate a go though. Cascara sagrada works really well for me for constipation.
I take your point about thyroid being low and vitamin D needing to be investigated. Doctors just said the level was “fine” but of course I know their metrics are wack a lot of the time. Although I am further confused as I’ve seen a lot of people in the Ray Peat and related circles say not to supplement vitamin D because it can block the absorption of retinol and low vitamin D is really just a magnesium deficiency.
I will check out your suggestions, many thanks again
Things that cause constipation: hypothyroidism; thiamine deficiency or blocked thiamine function; magnesium deficiency; dehydration; I'm sure there's more.

I have had a lot of trouble with constipation for many years. I took cascara sagrada daily along with an optimized dose of thyroid medication for the past 6 years, along with a very careful diet that included carrot salad or mushrooms daily. I have recently gotten more improvement/normalization via a pretty high dose of thiamine hcl; 2 grams/day, half around 9:00 am and half before 3:00 pm. This change in gut function occurred after 2 days of this high dose of thiamine hcl. In addition, my ability to swallow meat has massively improved. My digestion is a whole lot better; I think the thiamine has increased my stomach acid so my food is getting digested. I am able to tolerate magnesium supplementation much better since I'm taking the thiamine. The increased dose of magnesium (about 1500mg/day) does not trigger diarrhea anymore.

Here is a very good intro video about thiamine deficiency:

Dr. Chandler Marrs prefers to use TTFD thiamine for her patients. I use thiamine hcl. The doses are very different. I tried the TTFD version but it gave me a screaming headache so I stuck with the thiamine hcl.

I've learned from personal experience that thiamine deficiency is every bit as important as hypothyroidism when it comes to the derailment of your body functions because both are needed for oxidative metabolism. Thiamine deficiency causes problems with the autonomic nervous system which governs how your digestive tract works, among other things.

I do not believe that progesterone increased your estrogen issues. I think something else is the cause. It is important to carefully read the ingredients of the progesterone product. Don't use it if it has polyunsaturated fats or ingredients that you are not completely comfortable with. Do not use it if it has things in it that you can't pronounce.

I think it would help you if you would keep a detailed health diary that includes recording your temperature and pulse and also what you eat. You may have food sensitivities and or allergies that are causing your problems.

Ray Peat specifically told me (by email) to increase my vitamin D intake to 10,000 i.u./day, orally because my D level on my blood test was low. Keeping your D level up is important for many things, especially for your immune system to function properly. I take my vitamin A rubbed into my skin on my legs. My vitamin A lab results show it to be mid range.

You will be less confused if you spend more time reading and listening to Ray Peat himself. He is extremely consistent in his suggestions. If you are interested in changing something you are doing or in adding a new thing, research first via the search engines I provided previously.
 

ursidae

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Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
572
Mega breakouts so I don’t take it. I can’t stomach eating liver so tried ancestral supplements beef liver caps... vitamin E has the same effect! From what I’ve read it’s either estrogen or iron mobilizing that’s causing the reaction
Very interesting. You and I are very similar except my acne left scars. What kind of diet have you had the clearest skin on?
 

L_C

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
71
I do eat a lot of protein, between 100-135g a day and try to get from a variety of lean chicken, fish, beef, venison, eggs and greek yogurt. Also collagen from bone broth and gelatin gummies.
I tried to dose bioidentical progesterone (Ona’s) 100-150mg days 14-28 of my cycle but I’m wondering if maybe I miscalculated the dose as it seemed to worsen estrogen dominance symptoms...
How many cycles have you been taking it? I'm guessing here that progesterone is sucking estrogen out of your tissue, dumping it into your blood to be eliminated by liver and kidneys. It might take more than a cycle or two to see a difference. In my case I started noticing the change after the fourth cycle. My dosing was different because I didn't learn about megadosing until later. Now I am thinking since you are megadosing that it might not matter. I wish there was more user info on this.

I have never been on birth control but still after the fourth cycle I would see a pimple and normally my face is not acne prone. My guess here is that you are still in elimination period.
 

curious_anthro

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Thread starter
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
15
I know how you feel. I had a perfect body for years with training and undereating (and also not talking about deadly skinny, just perfectly fit for my frame) and it was the essence of me so when I finally realised that it was very very hard to accept the new me, not only that part where I learned to slow down, not to train every day,eat whatever I wanted but also the new look in the mirror. I honestly can say it was a very long process, it took almost two years and I am still not fully there. Sleep and anxiety was one of the most severe symptoms for me and oh my how many different things I have tried. I can go into details if you want describing every single thing I did, but honestly now looking back I see that the main thing was accepting me, accepting that I am not only a body, that my mind controls everything and that stupid image of how I must look or how often I must train is just like an error installed in my long time ago. There were so many little behavioral and psychological steps in all of this. But I promise you, once you are in peace with yourself, then everything else comes in place too, especially stress, anxiety and sleep. I am not perfect yet, but comparing how I was when I started 3 years ago, I can say I am very happy. Now I track my symptoms with a journal and watch out for indicators that I might be 'off' again like irregular period, difficulties falling asleep, stress without reason etc.
Thanks for sharing Hirri, that does resonate with me. Stressing and being obsessive about it just makes it all worse. One of the most annoying parts I find is that the "solutions" all cause suffering, and therefore stress, as you are always playing the long game...I just don't know if I'll ever be able to be at peace with a painful, bumpy face and fat rolls when I lived two decades without it. I have been going to counselling and have an incredibly loving and supportive husband... but as you've kind of alluded to, the inner deep healing is a key part in the journey
 

curious_anthro

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Thread starter
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
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Very interesting. You and I are very similar except my acne left scars. What kind of diet have you had the clearest skin on?
Annoyingly, dairy and refined carb/sugar free diet worked the best and I'm thinking that is because there was less "food" for bacteria to feed on or my body just can't utilise carbs efficiently. I do have some scars but the acne hasn't stopped so I'm sure there are more to come. At this point, I'd take dealing with scars over the painful cysts any day!
 
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