Gum Health

[whitepotatoes]

As long as I can remember my gums have always been an off-shade of red. Now they are a bit swollen around the gumline. I brush 2x per day and floss + waterpik. I suspect something else is going on, it should not be this difficult.

Could it be due to stress hormones? Anyone know of any research on this topic? I couldn't find Barnes or anyone else speaking on this issue, but I have found case studies of treating with thyroid hormone reducing swelling and bleeding.

"Patients with long standing hypothyroidism may have increased subcutaneous mucopolysaccharides due to decrease in the degradation of these substances. The presence of excess subcutaneous mucopolysaccharides may decrease the ability of small blood vessels to constrict when cut and may result in increased bleeding from infiltrated tissues, including mucosa and skin."[1]

"The common oral findings in hypothyroidism include the characteristic macroglossia, dysgeusia, delayed eruption, poor periodontal health, altered tooth morphology and delayed wound healing"[1]

"The oral manifestations of thyrotoxicosis, includes increased susceptibility to caries, periodontal disease, enlargement of extraglandular thyroid tissue (mainly in the lateral posterior tongue), maxillary or mandibular osteoporosis, accelerated dental eruption"[1]

"The pathogenesis in Hashimoto's thyroiditis is lymphocytic infiltration into the glands and production of auto-antibodies directed toward thymoglobulin and thyroid peroxidase. Oral findings include macroglossia dysguesia, delayed root resumption, decreased salivary gland secretion, poor periodontal health, delayed wound healing, and osteoarthritis of the temporomandibular joint (TMJ). "[2]

"It is assumed that both increase and decrease in salivary flow, induced by emotional disturbance, may affect the periodontium adversely. Emotional distress may also produce changes in saliva pH and chemical composition like IgA secretion. These relationships between salivary physiology and psychological status do not necessarily demonstrate causation of periodontal disease, but they show a pathway in which periodontal health is influenced by salivary changes."[3]

"Patients with maladaptive coping strategies have more advanced disease and poor response to non-surgical treatment, whereas positive correlation was observed in reduction of dental plaque and gingival bleeding in patients having an active coping. Furthermore, the cellular immune response plays a vital role in wound healing. Not only does it protect the wound site from infection, it also prepares the wound for healing and regulates its repair. Cytokines such as IL-1, IL-8, and TNF are extremely important in recruiting phagocytic cells to clear away the damaged tissue and to regulate the rebuilding by fibroblasts and epithelial cells. A decrease in expression in any of these cytokines could theoretically impair wound healing. Stress could suppress certain aspects of the cellular immune response such as mitogen stimulation, antibody and cytokine production, and NK cell activity. Furthermore, since stress deregulates inflammatory and immune response, stress can alter the course of oral wound healing and affect the management of other oral diseases, e.g., periodontitis."[3]

1 - Oral manifestations of thyroid disorders and its management
2 - A clinical case report of Hashimoto's thyroiditis and its impact on the treatment of chronic periodontitis Patil B S, Giri G R - Niger J Clin Pract
3 - Stress and periodontal disease: The link and logic!!

 

[Peatness]

Malnutrition and its Oral Outcome – A Review

Malnutrition affects the oral health and a poor oral health in turn, may lead to malnutrition. This interdependent relationship sees good nutritional health, thus promoting good oral health and vice versa. Malnutrition may alter the homeostasis, which ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effect of Malnutrition on oral structures and its development

Protein/calorie malnutrition​	Delayed tooth eruption, Reduced tooth size Decreased enamel solubility, Salivary gland dysfunction.​
Vitamin A​	Decreased epithelial tissue development, Impaired tooth formation, Enamel hypoplasia.​
Vitamin D/Calcium phosphorus​	Lowered plasma calcium, Hypomineralization Compromised tooth integrity, Delayed eruption pattern Absence of lamina dura, Abnormal alveolar bone patterns.​
Vitamin C​	Irregular dentin formation, Dental pulpal alterations Bleeding gums, Delayed wound healing, Defective collagen formation.​

Effect of Vitamin B Complex and Iron On Oral Structures

Deficient Nutrient​	Effect on oral structures​
Vitamin B1(Thiamine)​	Cracked lips, Angular cheilosis​
Vitamin B2 ( Riboflavin) Vitamin B3 (Niacin)​	Inflammation of the tongue, Angular cheilosis Ulcerative gingivitis​
Vitamin B6​	Periodontal disease, Anemia Sore tongue Burning sensation in the oral cavity.​
Vitamin B12​	Angular cheilosis, Halitosis Bone loss, Hemorrhagic gingivitis Detachment of periodontal fibers Painful ulcers in the mouth​
Iron​	Salivary gland dysfunction Very red, painful tongue with a burning sensation, Dysphagia, Angular cheilosis​

 

[pondering]

1 - Oral manifestations of thyroid disorders and its management
2 - A clinical case report of Hashimoto's thyroiditis and its impact on the treatment of chronic periodontitis Patil B S, Giri G R - Niger J Clin Pract
3 - Stress and periodontal disease: The link and logic!!

Great links, thank you!


Came across a reprint of this 1978 article on dental health from PREVENTION magazine

"Some people may have a gum problem. Sometimes it's related to stress. You'd be surprised what can come about because of stress. We've had a lot of cases of gum disease that had no plaque at all. We found out that the person wasn't eating enough, wasn't getting enough sleep, and was under a lot of stress. There's a lot of gingivitis among people taking exams in college, and among people getting a divorce."

“Dr. Knapp treats these problems with good nutrition rather than his drill. "Basically, I try to get them on a good, well-balanced diet, with vitamin supplementation - mainly multivitamins. In most cases the patients need to take vitamin C and vitamin E, and maybe some A and D. For the people with stress problems, I get them on vitamin B complex, C and E. I get them to eat a high protein diet, low carbohydrates - and wonderful things happen.”

"You know, periodontal disease - disease of the gums - is the major source of tooth loss in people over 40. so we have to pay special attention to the health of the gums. Cyanosis - easily bleeding gums - is something that has to be taken care of right away. As far as supplements go, I get them on B complex and C. But it's most important to find out the diet and take a long health history to make sure there are no systemic problems like diabetes or hypoglycemia.”

"Teeth can also be lost if the part of the jaw holding them in, the aveolar ridge, deteriorates. Usually, people who have periodontal disease have what is called a periodontal profile, which shows up on hair and blood analysis. They're low in zinc, iron, copper, potassium, magnesium and manganese. If I find this to be the case, I put them on a supplement and check them again later on, to see if the minerals are balanced yet. I also work on their diet because they should get their minerals from their food.”


“Calcium vs. Sugar

Drs. Nara and Johansen have their nutritional dos and don'ts, too. In order for the teeth to heal or remain healthy, Dr. Nara explained, "A person has to have sufficient calcium in his system so that the saliva contains a fair amount of calcium. A person who is on an extremely low-calcium diet would not get any remineralization, and the saliva would not be such as to prevent decay."”

 

[SaltiestSardine]

I don't know who Dr Knapp and Nara are but their understanding of teeth is elementary at best. calcium is not as important as people make it out to be for teeth. It simply acts as a buffer in saliva to prevent effects of acid erosion. It does not form apatite crystals even when it is nano and having alkali saliva is no indicator of a potential for teeth to remineralise nor is reducing acid erosion a catalyst for remineralisation.

As for gums, you want Co-Q10 that is either crystal dispersed or combined with B-Cyclodextrin. All other forms show poor to no absorption. You also may wanna try some kind of tincture that is high in quercitrin which has show periodontal regeneration in a couple of studies(you'll find them if you Google)

I've gone from having pretty deep periodontal pockets to them practically being closed following a protocol..also got some legit remineralisation of teeth(had a hairline fracture on two of them that has completely sealed with no visible signs of the line), but alas, none of the natural whiteness has returned yet

 

[pondering]

I don't know who Dr Knapp and Nara are but their understanding of teeth is elementary at best. calcium is not as important as people make it out to be for teeth. It simply acts as a buffer in saliva to prevent effects of acid erosion. It does not form apatite crystals even when it is nano and having alkali saliva is no indicator of a potential for teeth to remineralise nor is reducing acid erosion a catalyst for remineralisation.

As for gums, you want Co-Q10 that is either crystal dispersed or combined with B-Cyclodextrin. All other forms show poor to no absorption. You also may wanna try some kind of tincture that is high in quercitrin which has show periodontal regeneration in a couple of studies(you'll find them if you Google)

I've gone from having pretty deep periodontal pockets to them practically being closed following a protocol..also got some legit remineralisation of teeth(had a hairline fracture on two of them that has completely sealed with no visible signs of the line), but alas, none of the natural whiteness has returned yet

Appreciate those tips, thank you. I’m new to the forum and not that technical.

So you take the Co-Q10 internally? Have read some people apply to the gums directly.

That’s wonderful your deep pockets improved. I’d love similar results. Can I ask how long it took? I’ve got deep pockets and above average bone loss. Am trying to avoid osseous surgery. Especially since the prognosis for that surgery with Hashimoto’s (which I have) is not great.

Curious for more detail on your protocol if you don’t mind?

 

[SaltiestSardine]

Appreciate those tips, thank you. I’m new to the forum and not that technical.

So you take the Co-Q10 internally? Have read some people apply to the gums directly.

That’s wonderful your deep pockets improved. I’d love similar results. Can I ask how long it took? I’ve got deep pockets and above average bone loss. Am trying to avoid osseous surgery. Especially since the prognosis for that surgery with Hashimoto’s (which I have) is not great.

Curious for more detail on your protocol if you don’t mind?

No worries

My "protocol" for the past 2 years has been daily Vitamin-D about 5000 IU(liposomal is best, but make sure that the company declares the size of the liposomes. Ya looking for anything below 150nm otherwise it is useless)+about 20 minutes of actual sun exposure

vitamin K2 from MK4 (menatetrenone at least 30 mg a day with the doses spaced about 4-5 hours apart)and MK7 from Natto 600mcg with Nattokinase 2500FU(you can eat Natto if you can stomach it, but taking both as a supplement would work just as well)

Zinc whichever form you tolerate best minimum 10mg(i just eat oysters once or twice a week. 50g gives you about 25mg of zinc plus a decent amount of copper)

Boron as Sodium Tetraborate 10mg

Erythritol about a teaspoon to swish between meals

Co-Q10 crystal dispersed, or coupled with Cyclodextrin seems to be best absorbed even when not locally applied, about 200mg a day

Magnesium Citrate before bed about 600mg

These are the ones that have directly contributed to me improving my pocket depth and the hairline fractures i had in my back teeth. There's other stuff that indirectly contributed as well

You are probably going to ask about any oral health protocols. I don't do anything novel and you don't really need to either. Brushing is the least important part of the whole. I am not saying not to brush, i am saying as long as you physically disrupt the plaque with a brush then it doesn't matter much at all what you put on it. Other than using non-waxed floss, copper tongue scraper and avoiding antibacterials like Listerine and mouthwash containing Chlorhexidine, and Cetylpyridinium chloride(these will shoot you in the foot), don't have much to add there

 

[pondering]

Very useful info & breakdown, thank you!

You are probably going to ask about any oral health protocols. I don't do anything novel and you don't really need to either. Brushing is the least important part of the whole.

So relieving. Fear of surgery has made my oral hygiene routine ridiculously long and tedious

 

[EvanHinkle]

I had “deep pockets” as well. Things that helped me were a water pik, (good cleaning for after meals - and in my opinion safer than floss) vitamin K, (as previously mentioned) eggshell calcium, bag breathing, (apparently co2 shuttles minerals into bone/plays a role in bone density) and coffee enemas. It’s always amazing to me that very red gums can turn a bright shade of pink after coffee enema, (I mean it’s all one long tube from mouth to exit right, so inflamed gums probably mean inflamed alimentary canal in general).

 

[pondering]

I had “deep pockets” as well. Things that helped me were a water pik, (good cleaning for after meals - and in my opinion safer than floss) vitamin K, (as previously mentioned) eggshell calcium, bag breathing, (apparently co2 shuttles minerals into bone/plays a role in bone density) and coffee enemas. It’s always amazing to me that very red gums can turn a bright shade of pink after coffee enema, (I mean it’s all one long tube from mouth to exit right, so inflamed gums probably mean inflamed alimentary canal in general).

Interesting ideas, thank you. Adding to the list.

I do have digestive issues. Been on a very restrictive diet last 9 months to address that (esp. SIBO), reactive hypoglycemia, and lots of food sensitivities. Digestion is better but still a work in progress.

Realized I’m getting virtually no calcium (been strictly off dairy) while eating high oxalate foods. So am keen to try the eggshell calcium, but also nervous since I’m apparently making little or no HCl presently. Did you have any problems digesting it?

I don’t do well with coffee when I drink it (jittery/on edge). Is that a consideration for the coffee enemas? Hope that’s not a stupid question.

I know nothing about bag breathing, will look into as well.

 

[Mossy]

I used to use a tooth paste by the company Jason, named Oral Comfort, which worked very well but they've stopped making it. I had not been to the dentist in 12 years and when I finally went the dentist told me my teeth looked pretty good, considering—no cavities. That was 11 years ago, and I've stopped using that tooth paste simply because it wasn't available. I now have some teeth and gum problems. I wonder if I would've been ok had I continued with this toothpaste.

For reference, here are the ingredients:

Ingredients:Glycerin (Vege), Aqua (Purified Water), Silica, Sodium Cocoyl Glutamate,Xylitol, Ubiquinone (Coenzyme Q10), Tocopheryl Acetate (Vit.E), Coenzyme A, Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM), Aloe Barbadensis (Aloe Vera) Leaf Gel*, Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda), Bambusa Arundinacea (Bamboo) Stem Powder, Calcium Carbonate, Stevioside, Perilla Frutescens Japonica (Perilla) Seed Extract, Carum Petroselinum (Parsley) Extract, Citrus Grandis (Grapefruit) Seed Extract, Sodium Magnesium Silicate, Cellulose Gum, Sea Salt (Dead Sea), Beta Vulgaris (Beet Powder), Echinacea Angustifolia (Echinacea), Calendula Officinalis (Calendula), Fragaria Vesca (Strawberry), Vaccinium Angustifolium (Blueberry), Vaccinium Macrocarpon (Cranberry), Menthol, Mentha Piperita (Peppermint) Oil,Thymus Vulgaris (Thyme) Oil, Eugenia Caryophyllus (Clove) Oil.*Certified Organic, Natural Flavor

 

[EvanHinkle]

Interesting ideas, thank you. Adding to the list.

I do have digestive issues. Been on a very restrictive diet last 9 months to address that (esp. SIBO), reactive hypoglycemia, and lots of food sensitivities. Digestion is better but still a work in progress.

Realized I’m getting virtually no calcium (been strictly off dairy) while eating high oxalate foods. So am keen to try the eggshell calcium, but also nervous since I’m apparently making little or no HCl presently. Did you have any problems digesting it?

I don’t do well with coffee when I drink it (jittery/on edge). Is that a consideration for the coffee enemas? Hope that’s not a stupid question.

I know nothing about bag breathing, will look into as well.

What are your temps and pulse? My wife struggled with SIBO for years but getting temps and pulse up helped her immensely.

I had a lot of trouble with eggshell calcium initially, (constipation) but the use of charcoal helped me greatly. When I first began charcoal I was taking it three times a day, after about two weeks I moved to once a day before bed. After this period I no longer experienced constipation from eggshells.

Here’s the link to a thread on co2s role in bone, (gum) health: The Missing Link To Dental Health Is CO2
Peat himself also goes into co2s role in bone remineralization in one of his articles though I seemed to have misplaced it. I personally like the method of using an empty gallon jug with a small hole in the bottom, (Haidut has a thread about making such a “device”). Very easy to breath in and out of while watching some TV.

The coffee enema suggestion is because of your alimentary canal inflammation. Gerson has some great information about the anti-inflammatory effects of the coffee enema. My own personal experience has been to turn red gums bright pink after one coffee enema session.

So TLDR: address inflammation, provide nutrients, provide co2. All three of these factors work in tandem. Then address underlying issues: why SIBO? Is it simply the inflammation? Is it low temps? Is it insufficient bile flow? Is it fatty liver? Etc.

 

[pondering]

What are your temps and pulse? My wife struggled with SIBO for years but getting temps and pulse up helped her immensely.

Pardon the delay. New to all this. Never tracked before.

Based on last 2 days, temps/pulse:
Upon waking: 97.5-98 (Temp); 72-75 (Pulse)
Temp stays mostly in that range throughout day, usually rising slightly after food. Pulse drops (66-72) as my blood sugar drops generally. Pulse rises (76-81) after food usually. There is the occasional temp spike (98.2-98.7) after certain meals/snacks, and an associated pulse spike (84-88) one time.
Bedtime: 97.5 (Temp); 63-72 (Pulse)

Here’s the link to a thread on co2s role in bone, (gum) health: The Missing Link To Dental Health Is CO2
Peat himself also goes into co2s role in bone remineralization in one of his articles though I seemed to have misplaced it. I personally like the method of using an empty gallon jug with a small hole in the bottom, (Haidut has a thread about making such a “device”). Very easy to breath in and out of while watching some TV.

Thx for link!
Perhaps this article?

Osteoporosis, aging, tissue renewal, and product science

With the incidence of hip fractures increasing while the percentage of women using estrogen was increasing, it seems likely that there is something wrong with the theory that osteoporosis is caused by an estrogen deficiency.

raypeat.com

& excerpt?
“When carbon dioxide increases in the bloodstream it is at first absorbed rapidly by the bones, and if the blood level of CO2 is kept high day after day, the rate of absorption gradually slows down, but in experiments that have continued for several weeks the bones were still slowly absorbing more carbon dioxide; the absorption curve seems to be asymptotic. When people move to or from high altitudes, their bones appear to continue adapting to the different gas pressures for years. A reduction of atmospheric pressure (which allows the tissues to retain more carbon dioxide) helps to reduce the calcium loss caused by immobility (Litovka and Berezovs'ka, 2003; Berezovs'kyi, et al., 2000), and promotes the healing of damaged bone (Bouletreau, et al., 2002). Ultrasound treatment, which accelerates bone healing, stimulates processes similar to reduced oxygen supply (Tang, et al., 2007). The mineral in newly formed bone is calcium carbonate, and this is gradually changed to include a large amount of calcium phosphate. Besides forming part of the mineral, carbon dioxide is also incorporated into a protein (in a process requiring vitamin K), in a process that causes this protein, osteocalcin, to bind calcium. The osteocalcin protein is firmly bonded to a collagen molecule. Collagen forms about 30% of the mass of bone; several percent of the bone consists of other organic molecules, including osteocalcin, and the rest of the mass of the bone consists of mineral.”


Regarding enemas, I appreciate the suggestion. Am open to it for better health, and esp. to avoid the dreaded surgery.

So TLDR: address inflammation, provide nutrients, provide co2. All three of these factors work in tandem. Then address underlying issues: why SIBO? Is it simply the inflammation? Is it low temps? Is it insufficient bile flow? Is it fatty liver? Etc.

Very helpful overview of steps and their interplay.

 

[EvanHinkle]

Pardon the delay. New to all this. Never tracked before.

Based on last 2 days, temps/pulse:
Upon waking: 97.5-98 (Temp); 72-75 (Pulse)
Temp stays mostly in that range throughout day, usually rising slightly after food. Pulse drops (66-72) as my blood sugar drops generally. Pulse rises (76-81) after food usually. There is the occasional temp spike (98.2-98.7) after certain meals/snacks, and an associated pulse spike (84-88) one time.
Bedtime: 97.5 (Temp); 63-72 (Pulse)


Thx for link!
Perhaps this article?

Osteoporosis, aging, tissue renewal, and product science

With the incidence of hip fractures increasing while the percentage of women using estrogen was increasing, it seems likely that there is something wrong with the theory that osteoporosis is caused by an estrogen deficiency.

raypeat.com

& excerpt?
“When carbon dioxide increases in the bloodstream it is at first absorbed rapidly by the bones, and if the blood level of CO2 is kept high day after day, the rate of absorption gradually slows down, but in experiments that have continued for several weeks the bones were still slowly absorbing more carbon dioxide; the absorption curve seems to be asymptotic. When people move to or from high altitudes, their bones appear to continue adapting to the different gas pressures for years. A reduction of atmospheric pressure (which allows the tissues to retain more carbon dioxide) helps to reduce the calcium loss caused by immobility (Litovka and Berezovs'ka, 2003; Berezovs'kyi, et al., 2000), and promotes the healing of damaged bone (Bouletreau, et al., 2002). Ultrasound treatment, which accelerates bone healing, stimulates processes similar to reduced oxygen supply (Tang, et al., 2007). The mineral in newly formed bone is calcium carbonate, and this is gradually changed to include a large amount of calcium phosphate. Besides forming part of the mineral, carbon dioxide is also incorporated into a protein (in a process requiring vitamin K), in a process that causes this protein, osteocalcin, to bind calcium. The osteocalcin protein is firmly bonded to a collagen molecule. Collagen forms about 30% of the mass of bone; several percent of the bone consists of other organic molecules, including osteocalcin, and the rest of the mass of the bone consists of mineral.”


Regarding enemas, I appreciate the suggestion. Am open to it for better health, and esp. to avoid the dreaded surgery.


Very helpful overview of steps and their interplay.

That’s the article I was thinking of yep.

Your temps and pulse are interesting. Probably both are a little low, (peat has suggested keeping them higher for healing/regeneration). But what’s interesting about them is that they are seemingly reacting positively to food, (both rising afterwards). That’s a really great sign. So many people are so metabolically damaged that their bodies react poorly to food, (I was one of them for a while). I might suggest keeping track in chronometer, (a good tracking app) or a notebook which foods are raising pulse and temperatures best for you. You may be able to make big strides simply focusing a larger portion of your diet on those foods consistently raising pulse and temperature.

Something that’s worked incredibly well for me, (to the point that I’m planning on making a separate thread about it) is warm milk. Milk has a great nutritional profile, and warmed with sugar, it seems to be very healing on my mouth, gums, gut, and bowels. I can get a regular boost to 98.8-99 and a pulse of over 80 from 16 oz of milk with 4 tablespoons of sugar mixed in, (also, it’s delicious). 16 oz and 4 tablespoons is just what I found to work for me. That ratio is going to be different for everyone, (my wife for instance doesn’t tolerate the sugar as well and likes honey instead, which is also delicious).

I hope some of this information is helpful! Be well!

 

[pondering]

That’s the article I was thinking of yep.

Your temps and pulse are interesting. Probably both are a little low, (peat has suggested keeping them higher for healing/regeneration). But what’s interesting about them is that they are seemingly reacting positively to food, (both rising afterwards). That’s a really great sign. So many people are so metabolically damaged that their bodies react poorly to food, (I was one of them for a while). I might suggest keeping track in chronometer, (a good tracking app) or a notebook which foods are raising pulse and temperatures best for you. You may be able to make big strides simply focusing a larger portion of your diet on those foods consistently raising pulse and temperature.

Something that’s worked incredibly well for me, (to the point that I’m planning on making a separate thread about it) is warm milk. Milk has a great nutritional profile, and warmed with sugar, it seems to be very healing on my mouth, gums, gut, and bowels. I can get a regular boost to 98.8-99 and a pulse of over 80 from 16 oz of milk with 4 tablespoons of sugar mixed in, (also, it’s delicious). 16 oz and 4 tablespoons is just what I found to work for me. That ratio is going to be different for everyone, (my wife for instance doesn’t tolerate the sugar as well and likes honey instead, which is also delicious).

I hope some of this information is helpful! Be well!

All your info and suggestions are incredibly helpful!! I take it all into consideration and will be experimenting. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Between your suggestions, and those of @SaltiestSardine too, it feels less like a hopeless situation. I’m comforted by all the various things I can try. And inspired that you both have resolved things. Most of what I read elsewhere online focuses on hygiene, but I like that you’re both emphasizing an inside out approach as well, which makes a lot of sense.

@SaltiestSardine Thank you also so much for taking the time to respond.

 

[pondering]

I used to use a tooth paste by the company Jason, named Oral Comfort, which worked very well but they've stopped making it. I had not been to the dentist in 12 years and when I finally went the dentist told me my teeth looked pretty good, considering—no cavities. That was 11 years ago, and I've stopped using that tooth paste simply because it wasn't available. I now have some teeth and gum problems. I wonder if I would've been ok had I continued with this toothpaste.

For reference, here are the ingredients:

Ingredients: Glycerin (Vege), Aqua (Purified Water), Silica, Sodium Cocoyl Glutamate, Xylitol, Ubiquinone (Coenzyme Q10), Tocopheryl Acetate (Vit.E), Coenzyme A, Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM), Aloe Barbadensis (Aloe Vera) Leaf Gel*, Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda), Bambusa Arundinacea (Bamboo) Stem Powder, Calcium Carbonate, Stevioside, Perilla Frutescens Japonica (Perilla) Seed Extract, Carum Petroselinum (Parsley) Extract, Citrus Grandis (Grapefruit) Seed Extract, Sodium Magnesium Silicate, Cellulose Gum, Sea Salt (Dead Sea), Beta Vulgaris (Beet Powder), Echinacea Angustifolia (Echinacea), Calendula Officinalis (Calendula), Fragaria Vesca (Strawberry), Vaccinium Angustifolium (Blueberry), Vaccinium Macrocarpon (Cranberry), Menthol, Mentha Piperita (Peppermint) Oil,Thymus Vulgaris (Thyme) Oil, Eugenia Caryophyllus (Clove) Oil.*Certified Organic, Natural Flavor

That’s interesting. Highlighted the standouts to me based on above or often mentioned elsewhere. But obviously I’m no expert….

 

[Mossy]

That’s interesting. Highlighted the standouts to me based on above or often mentioned elsewhere. But obviously I’m no expert….

That's a good list, as one may be able to make their own, but I do wish this was still for sale. Maybe it was too expensive to make and they wanted to have more competitive marketing. Because I do remember as the years went on it went higher in price.