Green Pastures FCLO Fiasco

barefooter

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A rift in the WAPF community

More good, bad press about cod liver oil, in this case specifically the stuff from green pastures. Maybe this will turn WAPFers a bit sour towards it and get more thinking about the dangers of PUFAs.

http://davidgumpert.com/major-falling-out-at-wapf-over-fermented-cod-liver-oil

As a side note, I ended up having dinner with the owner of green pastures several years ago, when I too was a WAPFer and was at the annual conference (aka cult indoctrination). He seemed like a slick sales dude, and no one in his entourage looked particularly healthy.
 

Brian

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Butter oil is a joke too. Something like Estroban, liver or some combination of quality fat soluble supplements is not only much cheaper, but much higher and balanced in each vitamin.
 
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Nicholas

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"I furthermore shared reports from clinicians who were finding severe Vitamin D deficiencies among some members who were regularly taking FCLO."

this is not just a problem with "FCLO" - it's a common reality with taking other D supplements, too. which raises the question of what is "deficiency".
 
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narouz

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Interesting, but I couldn't get the link to work.
Just infinitely "loading"... :cry:
 
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Amazoniac

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memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2123 - what a coincidence.
Thank you for posting this! I expected it to be rancid, since it has a lot of purified PUFAs. And it also explains the terrible reaction that I had to it.
On the other hand, it's a source of balanced fat-soluble vitamins that I highly doubt people are taking in desirable amounts and especially balanced.

ps.: despite the terrible and intolerable reaction that I had to it, I experienced the smooth-teeth effect..
 

kiran

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Amazoniac said:
I expected it to be rancid, since it has a lot of purified PUFAs. And it also explains the terrible reaction that I had to it.
On the other hand, it's a source of balanced fat-soluble vitamins that I highly doubt people are taking in desirable amounts and especially balanced.

It is rancid, and doesn't have a lot of vitamins in it either. Thats what the fiasco's all about. "...is a poor source of Vitamin D..."
 

burtlancast

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Here's the google cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=ro

As Vice President of WAPF, I felt the safety of our members and the credibility of the foundation were at stake.

“In December 2014, WAPF’s Board of Directors voted against testing based on Sally Fallon Morell’s beliefs, David Wetzel’s assurances, and scientific data of limited and questionable value. I was strongly advised to relax, leave the science to people who could be ‘fair to Dave’ and to toe the FCLO line.

“Instead I went underground and set out on my own to test FCLO at some of the world’s top laboratories.”

She says her tests, at five independent labs in the U.S., Norway, and the Netherlands, confirmed her worst fears. “Lab tests indicate the Green Pasture Fermented Cod Liver Oil is rancid; putrid; low in the fat-soluble vitamins A, D and K; apparently diluted with a trans-fat containing vegetable oil — and not even from cod. We have reliable reports that the X-Factor Gold Butter Oil comes from Argentina, not the Great Plains, and it tests rancid as well. And contrary to Green Pasture’s advertising, Dr. Weston A. Price’s own words make it clear that these are not products he would ever have endorsed.”
 

charlie

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A dispute that has been simmering within the Weston A. Price Foundation over the integrity of a brand of so-called “fermented” cod liver oil, burst into the open this weekend.

Last October, I reported about an emerging dispute over Green Pasture fermented cod liver oil and whether it really was fermented and not just rancid, was dividing members, and how it would likely be a distraction at the organization’s national conference last November in Indianapolis.

Well, that simmering dispute has now exploded into a major controversy, with a report by WAPF’s vice president, Kaayla Daniel, contending that Green Pasture cod liver oil, which has been repeatedly and heavily endorsed by the organization, not only isn’t fermented, but is rancid, is a poor source of Vitamin D, and isn’t even from cod.

Reactions to Daniel’s report were swift. Dr. Ron’s Ultra Pure, a supplement company owned by Ron Schmid, a naturopath who has been a long-time WAPF supporter, said on his web site he was no longer carrying Green Pasture cod liver oil and butter oil.

On a separate page, he published a long account of his own experience with heart failure a few years ago, which he attributed to fermented cod liver oil. “In the six years I took fermented cod liver oil, I went from running ten miles a day to being barely able to walk across the room. My cardiologist, a world renowned physician at Yale-New Haven Hospital named Mark Marieb, was at first skeptical of my theory that cod liver oil had caused my heart problems. But as he has followed what he calls my ‘miraculous recovery’ from advanced heart failure (the usual prognosis is death within three to six months, and when first admitted at Yale-New Haven, I was seen by the Heart Transplant Team), he has gradually accepted that the cause of my heart failure was excessive amounts of cod liver oil.”

Dave Wetzel, owner of Green Pasture, called me to request I hold off publishing Kaayla Daniel’s findings. “They will be shown to be false,” he said. He declined to explain what specifically was wrong with her findings, except to suggest that there are problems in how she determines what is rancid. I told him I was publishing something today (Saturday), but would be glad to publish additional information when he has it.

Wetzel added that he has several lawyers studying the report, and that he will be issuing a rebuttal within days. Green Pasture sells huge amounts of its fermented cod liver oil via its web site, holistic providers like Dr. Ron, and at Weston A. Price Foundation events like its national conference, where it has one of the largest exhibits among sponsors.

Sally Fallon Morrell responded to my inquiry by referring me to a WAPF rebuttal last February to the initial concerns expressed last summer and fall about the Green Pasture fermented cod liver oil. It said, in part:

“The Weston A. Price Foundation has recently received several inquiries about the possibility of rancidity in fermented cod liver oil. After conducting our own due diligence, we have concluded that these concerns are unfounded.” It included results of lab reports it says show the Green Pasture product isn’t rancid. It added: “The Weston A. Price Foundation has performed an appropriate due diligence investigation and has found no credible evidence of rancidity or putrefaction in the Green Pastures fermented CLO. We continue to endorse this product.”

The fact that the accusation comes from Kaayla Daniel is revealing of just how deep the fissure over cod liver oil goes at WAPF. Daniel is the WAPF vice president, while Sally Fallon Morrell is its president. (Daniel is also on the board of the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund.) The two are even co-authors of a book published earlier this year, Nourishing Broth.

In her report, Daniel says she first became concerned about the integrity of the Green Pasture cod liver oil last summer, when she heard and read some of the same reports I referred to in my blog post of last October. But she says her efforts to get WAPF to investigate ran into a brick wall.

“As I reeled in the evidence, I came to believe there was something seriously wrong with FCLO. I thought the Weston A. Price Foundation should get to the bottom of it, and advised Sally Fallon Morell that we needed to test the Green Pasture Fermented Cod Liver Oil product properly and not just rely on David Wetzel’s assurances and his testing. I expressed concerns to her and later to WAPF’s Board of Directors about probable rancidity and possible putrefaction, and said I was skeptical of data showing improbably high levels of Vitamin D2 in the product. I furthermore shared reports from clinicians who were finding severe Vitamin D deficiencies among some members who were regularly taking FCLO. As Vice President of WAPF, I felt the safety of our members and the credibility of the foundation were at stake.


“In December 2014, WAPF’s Board of Directors voted against testing based on Sally Fallon Morell’s beliefs, David Wetzel’s assurances, and scientific data of limited and questionable value. I was strongly advised to relax, leave the science to people who could be ‘fair to Dave’ and to toe the FCLO line.

“Instead I went underground and set out on my own to test FCLO at some of the world’s top laboratories.”

She says her tests, at five independent labs in the U.S., Norway, and the Netherlands, confirmed her worst fears. “Lab tests indicate the Green Pasture Fermented Cod Liver Oil is rancid; putrid; low in the fat-soluble vitamins A, D and K; apparently diluted with a trans-fat containing vegetable oil — and not even from cod. We have reliable reports that the X-Factor Gold Butter Oil comes from Argentina, not the Great Plains, and it tests rancid as well. And contrary to Green Pasture’s advertising, Dr. Weston A. Price’s own words make it clear that these are not products he would ever have endorsed.”

Daniel advises users of the “fermented” cod liver oil “take back your power” and “take care not to be duped again.” She offers individuals who feel they have had their health harmed by the product “a free mini appointment” by phone or via Skype. (Contact wholenutritionist@earthlink.net.

In the meantime, Weston A. Price members and supporters reacted with shock and disbelief to the Daniel findings. On The Complete Patient Facebook page, Maureen Diaz, a nutrition expert who speaks frequently at WAPF conferences, said, “I am extremely disturbed by this, as are many I’m sure. I want for there to be a reasonable explanation for this, but just can’t imagine what that could be. I’ve had so much respect and admiration for Dave and Barb (Wetzel), it is extremely, I don’t know… disheartening, sad, I feel sick about this. Hopefully Dave will respond very soon. Can the good fairy please step in, wave her magic wand and make this not be true?!”
 

burtlancast

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Charlie said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96675/
Can the good fairy please step in, wave her magic wand and make this not be true?!”

Well, the good fairy already stepped in.


Some 30 years ago already.

ecd2151e9e34a1cbfe040498297185fb.jpg


An internet search of “heart failure” + “cod liver oil” turned up the 1930 Acta Pediatrica article “The Appearance of the Electrocardiogram in Heart Lesions Produced by Cod Liver Oil Treatment.” I discovered that researchers in that era, when cod liver oil was universally given to both children and adults with a wide variety of ailments, had induced heart failure in mice by giving them doses comparable proportionally to what I had taken for years. My desperation turned to joy, as I realized that, in time, I might recover my health.
http://www.drrons.com/cod-liver-oil-too ... thing.html
 
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aguilaroja

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burtlancast said:

I am reluctant to pile on, since the WAPF has many people who uphold local, non-toxic soil, agriculture, and food. And Dr. Weston Price himself appeared to be an innovative, dedicated, non-commercial researcher. The two foundations invoking his name are generations removed from the researcher himself.

I have no interest in using cod liver oil, and was dismayed years back when I experimented with it.

http://www.drrons.com/kaayla_daniel_fer ... report.htm

Some excerpts of Ron Schmid's summary:

"Flavors, odors and colors are indicative of rancidity – extreme rancidity – and that’s what the data show. Several lab managers said FCLO was the most rancid oil they’d ever tested...."

"Levels of fat-soluble vitamins reported by the labs utilized for this testing are significantly lower than those reported.... Levels of vitamin D are strikingly low, in contrast with the high levels reported by Green Pasture... Interestingly, a number of doctors and other health care professionals have reported severe vitamin D deficiencies among some patients who have been taking daily doses of FCLO for months or even years."

"Green Pasture claims stupendous amounts of vitamin K and significant amounts of Coenzyme Q10 in FCLO. ...[a] leading vitamin K research center found extremely low levels of vitamin K; another lab showed nearly undetectable levels of Coenzyme Q10."

"Dr. Price pointed out the danger of rancidity in the cod liver oils of his day, and he cited other researchers from the 1920s and 1930s who had “called attention to the importance of considering the toxic substances in cod liver oils as possible explanation for differences in the results obtained by different workers in vitamin studies.” Clinicians observed “severe and striking” effects, most notably “serious structural damage” to the heart and kidneys."

It is also instructive to re-read John Cannell's encounters with WAPF when he expressed concerns about the vitamin D/A proportions. Cannell's views about these vitamins are not the same as Dr. Peat, but Cannell closely reads the scientific literature:

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newslett ... toxicity/#

"For example, multivitamins, until recently, had small amounts of vitamin D (200 to 400 IU) but high amounts of preformed retinol (5,000 to 10,000 IU). This pales in comparison to a tablespoon of modern cod liver oil, most of which contains sub-physiological amounts of vitamin D (400 to 1200 IU) but supra-physiological amounts of completely preformed retinol (5,000 to 15,000 IU or, in some cases, 30,000 IU).”"

"I admired everyone I met at the Weston A. Price Foundation... However, when I brought up toxicity of cod liver oil, the atmosphere quickly turned.... the vitamin A researcher they flew in, Dr. Noel Solomon, also warned them about cod liver oil. No use."
 

narouz

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Amazoniac said:
Thank you for posting this! I expected it to be rancid, since it has a lot of purified PUFAs. And it also explains the terrible reaction that I had to it.

pboy would love this stuff.
He pboythesleeperawakens! loves anything that is rotting,
especially in his gut. :D
 
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narouz said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96766/
Amazoniac said:
Thank you for posting this! I expected it to be rancid, since it has a lot of purified PUFAs. And it also explains the terrible reaction that I had to it.

pboy would love this stuff.
He pboythesleeperawakens! loves anything that is rotting,
especially in his gut. :D

:eek: How dare you? Pboy is a fine gentleman and a starchophobe.
 
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pboy

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lol, a lot of other people seem to want to promote and like rotting in the gut, so I just call it out! again this seems like a case of the senses not lying lol...think about how rather strange it is alone...cod, liver, oil? LOL...and then it smells rancid? its one of those things where like, whatever it says on paper, if it doesn't pass the sense and common sense test its out regardless. If anything just eating fresh cod, the whole fish, would probably be better...it seems rather strange to stack a bunch of dead cod up, take out their livers only, press them for oil, and put them in a capsule by which time the thing smells rotten...I dunno. I guess if you were severely deficient in vitamin A/D or whtever it has and you knew it had it and that's all you could get it might be better than nothing, but really theres usually, well pretty much always, a better option. IM sure the cod liver oil has a lot of toxins or just bad vibes in it and you cant ever just take stuff like that in and expect it to disappear once swallowed

but hey guys I heard it feeds beneficial bacteria!!! who cares if every tangible symptom would point as to it being a bad thing...I read on the internetz that beneficial bacteria r good for me!!!
 

burtlancast

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aguilaroja said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96749/
burtlancast said:

I am reluctant to pile on, since the WAPF has many people who uphold local, non-toxic soil, agriculture, and food. And Dr. Weston Price himself appeared to be an innovative, dedicated, non-commercial researcher. The two foundations invoking his name are generations removed from the researcher himself.

I have no interest in using cod liver oil, and was dismayed years back when I experimented with it.

I agree entirely.

WPF is just another example of a grass root organisation being infiltrated from the top, as Ray wrote clearly on many occasions.

Weston Price was a genuine and brilliant researcher in his time; the people at the top of WPF are just trying to associate his name to "essential fatty acid consumption", thus perpetuating the 70-year fraud by the grain industry.

Many are just greed-driven opportunists, some are just trying to save the meat and dairy industry, while a few are mistaken individuals (like Dr Ron) unable to integrate opposing scientific research about PUFAS.
 
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