Granular Charcoal And Intestine Damage

Tzheng2012

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so theres a lot of talk by herbalists and alternative doctors that things like psyllium husk scratch and irritate the intestine, which is partly why they stimulate bowel movements, so they tend to stay away from these fibers and instead prefer herbs like cascara which “tone” thhe bowel through its astrigent nature.

Ive been taking granular charcoal recently and noticed how its basically like swallowing hard sharp pebbles. Since powdered charcoal is what is used universally as a health supplement (yes yes persorption etc), are we sure that we should be consuming granular? I feel like it could be dangerous to the intestines because of its physical properties being quite sharp and abrasive. Wouldnt this irritate and scratch the intestines on its way down to the colon similar to psyllium except on a much larger scale? Since i take it before bed on an empty stomach i worry about this. Perhaps granular should be taken with food so it doesnt directly touch the walls of the intestine?

I mean if you got these course sharp pebble like things going throughh your intestine and maybe you do some stretching or some sudden movement wouldnt that cause some minor abrasions in your intestines?
 

Waynish

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Everyone seems to ignore it, but I tried the granular charcoal that people seem to like on here and it is like eating glass shards. Your mouth is telling you not to swallow...
 
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How would a larger grain scratch more than a small one?
 

theLaw

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+1 I agree 100%:darts:

I recently switched from powder to granular (which was very polished like stones at the bottom of an aquarium) and noticed that it had basically zero effect.

Then I used a Blendtec to bring it down to about 1/2 size, and again, noticed very little, but that it was very course and abrasive.

Finally, I blended it into powder, but noticed that it was much rougher than the powder I purchased before.

I think the safest route would probably be equal parts powder + mct/coconut oil.
 

Waynish

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+1 I agree 100%:darts:

I recently switched from powder to granular (which was very polished like stones at the bottom of an aquarium) and noticed that it had basically zero effect.

Then I used a Blendtec to bring it down to about 1/2 size, and again, noticed very little, but that it was very course and abrasive.

Finally, I blended it into powder, but noticed that it was much rougher than the powder I purchased before.

I think the safest route would probably be equal parts powder + mct/coconut oil.

Yes, it seems less safe than the original stuff... I'm going to throw mine out or else accidentally continue to use it before proven safe (and experience says it is less safe) - and I will email health natura about it.
 

cyclops

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Who originally recommended the granular over the powder? Was it Peat himself?
 

Waynish

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Who originally recommended the granular over the powder? Was it Peat himself?
It was various member's interpretation of Peat writing that he was "worried about persorption" of the fine grained charcoal particles. Then instant consensus. Then the creation of a product to sell to us. Sound familiar? :)
 

cyclops

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Dang guess I have to buy the powdered one again. Anyone have a recommendation or are the all pretty much the same?
 

theLaw

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It was various member's interpretation of Peat writing that he was "worried about persorption" of the fine grained charcoal particles. Then instant consensus. Then the creation of a product to sell to us. Sound familiar? :)

Does this ever worry you? (from toxinless.com)...
"Fine powders vs granular charcoal
I think fine powders are more active due to their increased surface area. However, Ray Peat has pointed out that fine powders may have persorption, (absorption into blood/lymph) issues. That makes me suggest using a granular form if you're going to use it long term, with the fine powders reserved for acute issues."

Asked Haidut about this:

"It is certainly a possible issue, but I have not heard of people complaining about it or getting swelling in lymph nodes when using the fine powder found in most capsules. Maybe somebody can ask Peat what to look for in terms of symptoms when persorption is suspected."

From the Toxinless comments:
"I doubt that the fine powder is safe, because of the risk of persorption into the blood stream; a coarse granulated form is probably safe." -Ray Peat

Haidut:

"Unfortunately, most capsule products use the fine powder. I guess given the risks it would be better to just use carrots or cascara as a digestive stimulant."
 

Tarmander

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It was various member's interpretation of Peat writing that he was "worried about persorption" of the fine grained charcoal particles. Then instant consensus. Then the creation of a product to sell to us. Sound familiar? :)

Yes...always insidious when people describe what they want and someone supplies it for a reasonable price. Those evil capitalists are just waiting for us to enjoy their products, very deceptive.

Who originally recommended the granular over the powder? Was it Peat himself?

I believe the finely powdered charcoal was found in lymph nodes and other places in the body. I could be wrong, but the persorbtion charge had some actual merit to it, unlike someone saying “whoa these seem sharp!”

I have taken the granular for more then a year and have had nothing but good things come from it. I do not take it on an empty stomach though and it still seems to work.
 
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Tzheng2012

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Blah, didnt mean to post, i wasnt finished yet :c

I have taken the granular for more then a year and have had nothing but good things come from it. I do not take it on an empty stomach though and it still seems to work.
I dont see why it wouldnt work taken with food, the only thing would be the chance it absorbs some nutrients also. Im more worried about taking it on an empty stomach since going down the intestines itll be direct contact with it. And since the intestines push things down through contractions, it seems kind of scary to have bare intestines griping and pushing against coarse rocks. Its probably safer to take it with some food so its not directly contacting the intestines.

And sure i agree with persorption claims which is why i went for the granular, but i was not expecting such large pieces. I mean theyre really big, like unecessarily so. I thought it was going to be like turbinado sugar sized, but these are like aquarium rock size lol.

And do any people besides RP forum users take granular charcoal as a supplement? This is the only place i saw mentioned of this form being ingested, which is why theres probably no studies on dangers etc.

I guess the best solution is to ask healthtnatura if they could get smaller sized granular charcoal. If they can get it to turbinado sugar sized it would be much easier to take, be less abrasive/irritating to the intestines, and would have stronger adsorption effects because more surface area. I really wonder why they chose such a big size for the granular, maybe it was the common size that is used for industrial things like water filters lol.

Edit: i just took a look at the granular i got from healh natura. I guess the size is already “turbinado sugar” size. I assumed it was bigger since i normally just scoop it and put it straight into my mouth then wash it down with a glass of water (it takes quite a bit if water to make it all go down) and it felt bugger than it was. But taking a closer look these granules of charcoal are dang sharp. Most of them are like triangles, with so many pointed edges its kinda scary. I would definetly feel more at ease if the granules were as small as say white sugar. I doubt that size could get persorbed, since the normal powdered charcoal is as fine as dust.
 
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Tarmander

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Blah, didnt mean to post, i wasnt finished yet :c


I dont see why it wouldnt work taken with food, the only thing would be the chance it absorbs some nutrients also. Im more worried about taking it on an empty stomach since going down the intestines itll be direct contact with it. And since the intestines push things down through contractions, it seems kind of scary to have bare intestines griping and pushing against coarse rocks. Its probably safer to take it with some food so its not directly contacting the intestines.

And sure i agree with persorption claims which is why i went for the granular, but i was not expecting such large pieces. I mean theyre really big, like unecessarily so. I thought it was going to be like turbinado sugar sized, but these are like aquarium rock size lol.

And do any people besides RP forum users take granular charcoal as a supplement? This is the only place i saw mentioned of this form being ingested, which is why theres probably no studies on dangers etc.

I guess the best solution is to ask healthtnatura if they could get smaller sized granular charcoal. If they can get it to turbinado sugar sized it would be much easier to take, be less abrasive/irritating to the intestines, and would have stronger adsorption effects because more surface area. I really wonder why they chose such a big size for the granular, maybe it was the common size that is used for industrial things like water filters lol.

Edit: i just took a look at the granular i got from healh natura. I guess the size is already “turbinado sugar” size. I assumed it was bigger since i normally just scoop it and put it straight into my mouth then wash it down with a glass of water (it takes quite a bit if water to make it all go down) and it felt bugger than it was. But taking a closer look these granules of charcoal are dang sharp. Most of them are like triangles, with so many pointed edges its kinda scary. I would definetly feel more at ease if the granules were as small as say white sugar. I doubt that size could get persorbed, since the normal powdered charcoal is as fine as dust.
I hear ya, I hear ya.
 

theLaw

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Well if its larger its going to contact more surface area of the intestines whereas if it was smaller it could pass more smoothly.


Whats the oil do? Reduce persorption?

I would assume it reduced irritation, and also gets the AC into the colon, as with the carrot salad.
 
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It was various member's interpretation of Peat writing that he was "worried about persorption" of the fine grained charcoal particles. Then instant consensus. Then the creation of a product to sell to us. Sound familiar? :)
Yeah hence why there's no point in going to healthnatura and complaining. He isn't your babysitter, just putting his supply skills and experience to your service.

Well if its larger its going to contact more surface area of the intestines whereas if it was smaller it could pass more smoothly.
I guess basically if it's larger it can "cut" deeper than a small particle. But there needs to be something that is pushing it. And to be honest I'm more worried about the tiny particle being INSIDE the intestinal wall than the wall being cut.
 
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Tzheng2012

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I guess basically if it's larger it can "cut" deeper than a small particle. But there needs to be something that is pushing it. And to be honest I'm more worried about the tiny particle being INSIDE the intestinal wall than the wall being cut.

Well i would think there would be some slight irritation/abrasion just from the normal contractions of the intestines that move along the food. Or you eat a knuckle sandwich :punch:. The skin of our intestines are quite thin, especially the colon. Normally when your eating food and you bite down on a rock or something you usually spit it out, but in this case we are intentionally swallowing something really hard so its not really something our intestines would be “adapted” to.

I definetly believe persorption is a thing and that the normal powdered charcoal can easily be persorbed, but those are ground fine as dust. Theres medical warnings to not inhale the dust because it can cause lung damage, but i dont see that happening with say particles the size of white sugar, unless your purposely snorting it :nailbiting:. But maybe a possible problem with white sugar sized granules would be that they get stuck in some crevice of the intestine?

Just putting some thoughts out there and maybe if some other people would also rather have a slightly smaller size granule (but not “powdered”) then we could ask healthnatura if they could carry two sizes or something. One for those with iron guts, and another for those of us not man enough to eat rubble for dinner.
 
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Tzheng2012

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I would assume it reduced irritation, and also gets the AC into the colon, as with the carrot salad.
Oh i also thought about this earlier today. For those of us taking AC on an empty stomach, maybe taking a little soaked psyllium husk or slippery elm gruel would help it “slide” down without too much irritation.
 

x-ray peat

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Just looking into getting into activated charcoal again. Any new thoughts on the safety of granular charcoal? Many are concerned about the roughness damaging the intestinal walls. Seems to make sense.

Also wanted to clarify some of the above comments that the idea for granular came from Ray due to persorption and not from the forum. It's in one of his emails.
 
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Tzheng2012

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I was thinking maybe it be ok to run it through a coffee grinder. That way youd get a powder, but not that superfine dust powder that would risk persorption. As long as it doesnt damage your coffee grinder that is
 
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