Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[InChristAlone]

That’s Garret Smith? He looks like ***t

Go back several yrs, I think he's lost weight. He's always had a balding head.

 

[tallglass13]

That’s Garret Smith? He looks like ***t

Yikes! What a terrible thing to say about another human being! I guess when you're on a forum, you can say whatever you want with no consequences..
I look at the positives I think Garrett doesn't have any lipofuskin, his eyes are white and blue, his teeth are fine, and has a very great nails.. Ray is missing his eyesight, and his teeth.. and just got over a bout of laryngitis from eating bacon.

 

[Sefton10]

Yikes! What a terrible thing to say about another human being! I guess when you're on a forum, you can say whatever you want with no consequences..
I look at the positives I think Garrett doesn't have any lipofuskin, his eyes are white and blue, his teeth are fine, and has a very great nails.. Ray is missing his eyesight, and his teeth.. and just got over a bout of laryngitis from eating bacon.

The level of anger and spite he’s exuding in that video is not a good sign, I’d take Ray’s chill over that any day.

 

[Jam]

and just got over a bout of laryngitis from eating bacon.

 

[TradClare]

The level of anger and spite he’s exuding in that video is not a good sign, I’d take Ray’s chill over that any day.

I see it as testosterone, not just anger and spite. Ray has a different personality, plus he's a lot older and should be more "chill" at his age. A healthy younger man should get a little angry about injustices. I think we live in an age when men are expected to show very little masculinity in public.

 

[atlee7757]

Garret Smith:

His presentation of himself can be quite annoying, but let's not let his ego blind us to what he has to say.

He makes points that are valid enough for them to be given serious examination.

 

[Sefton10]

I see it as testosterone, not just anger and spite. Ray has a different personality, plus he's a lot older and should be more "chill" at his age. A healthy younger man should get a little angry about injustices. I think we live in an age when men are expected to show very little masculinity in public.

If a middle aged man ranting and gossiping about other people on YouTube is masculine, that's probably a good sign of how far we've fallen as a society. He comes across to me as typical of the wannabe gurus in nutrition who zero in on one particular nutrient or substance as being THE root of all evil and then try to monetise themselves as having the 'secret'. His comments in the video on (I'm assuming) the Rubins are out of order and come across as just plain spiteful.

 

[Braveheart]

The level of anger and spite he’s exuding in that video is not a good sign, I’d take Ray’s chill over that any day.

Yes this man is not healthy....

 

[tallglass13]

If a middle aged man ranting and gossiping about other people on YouTube is masculine, that's probably a good sign of how far we've fallen as a society. He comes across to me as typical of the wannabe gurus in nutrition who zero in on one particular nutrient or substance as being THE root of all evil and then try to monetise themselves as having the 'secret'. His comments in the video on (I'm assuming) the Rubins are out of order and come across as just plain spiteful.

He frequently admits to making all kinds of mistakes in the past. After showing his blood work in the latest video, he still has some bile acids in his blood, in which he says should be zero so he still states that he has a lot of work left to do on himself.. I like to hear what he has to say about Ray.. since he did the diet himself and gained a lot of weight and did not feel good. I did Ray Peat diet myself yesterday, and did not feel good at the end of the day.. I ate Parmigiano-Reggiano, oysters, fruit juice, coffee with milk and sugar.. going back to my beef and beans today!

 

[Sefton10]

He frequently admits to making all kinds of mistakes in the past. After showing his blood work in the latest video, he still has some bile acids in his blood, in which he says should be zero so he still states that he has a lot of work left to do on himself.. I like to hear what he has to say about Ray.. since he did the diet himself and gained a lot of weight and did not feel good. I did Ray Peat diet myself yesterday, and did not feel good at the end of the day.. I ate Parmigiano-Reggiano, oysters, fruit juice, coffee with milk and sugar.. going back to my beef and beans today!

I’m all for reasoned critique of an approach or theory, but there’s a way of going about it. That rant in his video wasn’t it. Likewise, trusting in our own experiences and adjusting accordingly (as you did today) rather than blindly following an authority - Ray himself would probably be the biggest proponent of that!

 

[TradClare]

I’m all for reasoned critique of an approach or theory, but there’s a way of going about it. That rant in his video wasn’t it. Likewise, trusting in our own experiences and adjusting accordingly (as you did today) rather than blindly following an authority - Ray himself would probably be the biggest proponent of that!

Maybe I didn't see the right video. I agree he has an edge to him, but I haven't seen him the spite/gossiping mentioned (yet anyway). I would agree that he doesn't look like the picture of health. Especially he seems to need some sunshine if not the veggies, and to lose a few pounds. Most people could lose some weight but if the obesity epidemic is caused by A (which he has said), then I would expect his face and neck to be leaner.

 

[Tarmander]

Smith has a point about the Peat diet. People get fat and age on it.

But the amount of anger and paranoia he has been displaying lately is a bad sign for his health.

I sample his methods and approaches because sometimes he finds really interesting things, but his belief that life all boils down to reproduction should be a red flag. I pray for him now and then

 

[Nebula]

This is the most pathetic attack on "Ray Peat" I have ever witnessed, all while pushing a dubious lactoferrin supplement. What little respect I had for Garret Smith is now gone.

He has some valid criticism, but there is plenty for Garret too. There is no single best approach for everyone. My main criticism of Peat or at least his common suggestions is many people‘s system cannot take very much pro-metabolic stimulus or pre-formed nutrients like retinol, vitamin D, exogenous hormones for various reasons. Maybe the transport and digestive enzymes to make sure these nutrients are used quickly and fully aren’t always present in some people and they can accumulate sometimes to very negative effect. Peat has never really presented himself to be a dietician so somewhat people should realize we are projecting that onto him because that’s what we want him to be. He’s just a guy who lIke’s painting women and reading about biology, society and summarizing his thoughts on it in newsletters. I see Peat more as a journalist and self experimenter.

Garrett’s approach is too supplement oriented. I don’t think most people benefit from such micromanaged intake of minerals especially in supplement form.

 

[youngsinatra]

I think he has some valuable ideas in regards to vitamin A. I am very skeptical on his other dietary ideas. I have access to his program/platform, but I feel like there is not much room for scientific questioning and this is always a red flag for me.

I think he is too dualistic in his line of thinking - thinking in terms of good and evil.

He thinks that coffee, fruits, vitamin D, dairy, eggs are toxic to the liver? Like what? All those things are associated with lower risk for liver disease.

I challenged him on a few things like the scientific fact that low fat dairy contains 85% less retinol than whole fat dairy, that the usage of NAC speeds up vitamin A detox via upregulation of ADH and helps heal the liver and that vitamin D3 can be therapeutic for vitamin A toxicity.

 

[youngsinatra]

Vitamin A and Its Derivatives Induce Hepatic Glycine N-Methyltransferase and Hypomethylation of DNA in Rats

„Regulation of S-adenosylmethionine (SAM) and the SAM/S-adenosylhomocysteine (SAH) ratio by the key cytosolic enzyme glycine N-methyltransferase (GNMT) is essential in optimizing methyl group supply and subsequent functioning of methyltransferase enzymes. Therefore, inappropriate activation of GNMT may lead to the loss of methyl groups vital for many SAM-dependent transmethylation reactions. Previously, we demonstrated that the retinoid derivatives 13-cis- (CRA) and all-trans-retinoic acid (ATRA) mediated both the activity of GNMT and its abundance. The present study was conducted to determine whether vitamin A had a similar ability to up-regulate GNMT and to assess the biological importance of GNMT modulation by examining both the transmethylation and transsulfuration pathways after retinoid treatment. Rats were fed a control (10% casein + 0.3% l-methionine) diet and orally given retinyl palmitate (RP), CRA, ATRA or vehicle daily for 10 d. RP, CRA and ATRA elevated hepatic GNMT activity 32, 74 and 124%, respectively, compared with the control group. Moreover, the retinoid-mediated changes in GNMT activity were reflected in GNMT abundance (38, 89 and 107% increases for RP-, CRA-, and ATRA-treated rats, respectively). In addition, hepatic DNA, a substrate for SAM-dependent transmethylation, was hypomethylated (∼100%) after ATRA treatment compared with the control group. In contrast, the transsulfuration product glutathione was unaffected by retinoid treatment. These results provide evidence of the following: 1) vitamin A, like its retinoic acid derivatives, can induce enzymatically active GNMT; and 2) inappropriate induction of GNMT can lead to a biologically important loss of methyl groups and the subsequent impairment of essential transmethylation processes.“

Maybe a mechanism by which retinol causes fatty liver by depletion of methyl groups, as it is widely acknowledged that methyl donors (methionine, choline, betaine) help with fatty liver.

So supporting the methylation cycle with adequate B2, B6, B9, B12, creatine, choline/TMG and glycine as a methyl buffer may help?

At the moment I am having good results with supporting methylation and liver health.

For methylation I currently use a methylated B-complex (80mg B1, 30mg B2 as R5P, 210mg B3, 170mg B5, 36mg B6 as P5P, 800 mcg B7, 800 mcg B9 as methylfolate, 1000mcg methyl-B12) and glycine (15-30 grams) on top of a high protein diet (rich in methionine) with most of the protein coming from lean beef. (rich in choline, creatine, zinc)

For liver health I drink a lot of coffee and I use 1-2 gram of NAC plus mainly eating starch-based (peeled white potatoes, oats, bananas) and a lot less of fructose. Vitamin D3/K2 ofc.

For the last 3-4 days almost no vertigo anymore.

 

[youngsinatra]

Blood work update:


I also got my serum vitamin A. But I am skeptical if I noted it correctly.
She said it‘s elevated above normal.
I understood 87.1 mcg/dl (ref: 32.5-78.0 mcg/dl)

But will get the result of vitamin A per mail tomorrow too.

 

[Blossom]

Likewise, trusting in our own experiences and adjusting accordingly

That’s exactly it in a nutshell. It’s a process where we never stop growing and learning but can’t lose touch with our inner guidance system. No one knows our own particular context like we do after all.

 

[youngsinatra]

By the way is it annoying that I post about my personal case in this thread? If so, please let me know and I will open up a separate thread.

 

[Blossom]

By the way is it annoying that I post about my personal case in this thread? If so, please let me know and I will open up a separate thread.

I think either way is fine but since this thread is so huge it might be easier and more beneficial to have a separate thread.

 

[Hermes]

By the way is it annoying that I post about my personal case in this thread? If so, please let me know and I will open up a separate thread.

No, not at all. I really appreciate your contribution, even though I might be silent most of the time. I wouldn't have the guts to put myself out there as you do. I also don't think it's necessary to start a new thread because this way it stays alive.