Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

tim333

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
276
Thanks tim333. I have been vegan for many years and I have eaten high carotene foods daily the whole time. My vitamin A levels are at the bottom of the reference range but beta carotene levels way out of reference level, sky high. What I suspect is that some people can't convert carotene to vitamin A efficiently and this causes all adverse reactions. Like in this case. RACGP - A young woman with yellow hands and secondary amenorrhoea

If your serum retinol is low it doesn't necessarily mean your liver stores are low. In zinc deficiency for example you can have low serum retinol and high liver stores.
 
Last edited:

artist

Member
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
420
It would be interesting if someone took on this diet and then individually added a pure source of salicylate like aspirin to see if that was their problem. Same with ie. MSM for sulfur, another for oxalates (not as familiar with this sensitivity). As someone with major salicylate problems it’s hard not to notice how this diet is basicaly a zero-salicylate diet. And other than beans it’s really low thiol/sulfur too.
 

Korven

Member
Joined
May 4, 2019
Messages
1,133
It would be interesting if someone took on this diet and then individually added a pure source of salicylate like aspirin to see if that was their problem. Same with ie. MSM for sulfur, another for oxalates (not as familiar with this sensitivity). As someone with major salicylate problems it’s hard not to notice how this diet is basicaly a zero-salicylate diet. And other than beans it’s really low thiol/sulfur too.

+1

So many confounding factors. Hard to say if it's only the low VA that helped Grant when he also cut out dairy, eggs, fructose, salicylates, nightshades, most oxalates, etc.
 

artist

Member
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
420
+1

So many confounding factors. Hard to say if it's only the low VA that helped Grant when he also cut out dairy, eggs, fructose, salicylates, nightshades, most oxalates, etc.
For sure. It’s a problem with elimination diets in general I think because there are so many compounds one could be struggling to digest/detox. When I did a low sulfur diet myself I think in hindsight I inadvertently cut salicylates and that was the actual main source of help. But elimination diets are so useful and underrated. It’s good to have a familiarity with these common intolerances and then start to really trial things 3-4 weeks at a time with them in mind. I’ve been doing just that and food journaling much more rigorously in the past month and a half and I feel like I am learning so much more quickly and with much more certitude than before. I would advise anyone drawn to a diet like Grant’s to food journal meticulously, include pics you find relevant (skin? Swelling? Dark circles?). Be detailed day-to-day but also include broader reflections.

- histamine
- salicylates
- oxalates
- thiols/sulfur
- nightshades
- eggs
- casein vs lactose vs milk allergy issues (I am incredibly sensitive to casein despite not being lactose intolerant nor allergic)
- fructose
- fodmaps
- vitamin A
- meat

All worth being aware of but there could be other patterns. Food combinations that don’t work. Spices. Acidity. Salt/mineral levels. Protein levels. Water intake. If you’re one of those people who can have their mood/energy/pain levels/etc ruined by a meal (I know it’s a lot of us) then you owe it to yourself to start properly investigating with a strategy, it’s a quality of life game changer.
 

somuch4food

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
1,281
For sure. It’s a problem with elimination diets in general I think because there are so many compounds one could be struggling to digest/detox. When I did a low sulfur diet myself I think in hindsight I inadvertently cut salicylates and that was the actual main source of help. But elimination diets are so useful and underrated. It’s good to have a familiarity with these common intolerances and then start to really trial things 3-4 weeks at a time with them in mind. I’ve been doing just that and food journaling much more rigorously in the past month and a half and I feel like I am learning so much more quickly and with much more certitude than before. I would advise anyone drawn to a diet like Grant’s to food journal meticulously, include pics you find relevant (skin? Swelling? Dark circles?). Be detailed day-to-day but also include broader reflections.

- histamine
- salicylates
- oxalates
- thiols/sulfur
- nightshades
- eggs
- casein vs lactose vs milk allergy issues (I am incredibly sensitive to casein despite not being lactose intolerant nor allergic)
- fructose
- fodmaps
- vitamin A
- meat

All worth being aware of but there could be other patterns. Food combinations that don’t work. Spices. Acidity. Salt/mineral levels. Protein levels. Water intake. If you’re one of those people who can have their mood/energy/pain levels/etc ruined by a meal (I know it’s a lot of us) then you owe it to yourself to start properly investigating with a strategy, it’s a quality of life game changer.
I agree. Vitamin A carotenoids are a thing for me. Orange carrots give me night sweats but other colors are fine.

I've also figured out I have multiple sensitivities from those you listed.
 

Sani

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2021
Messages
51
Thanks Peatful, that was interesting video. I'm gonna try upping my retinol intake from real foods and drop my carotene intake to almost zero. I react negatively to vitamin A and D supplements, but no reactions to high retinol foods and taking sun. Vitamin A supplements gives me pressure in head feeling and irritated eyes the same day I take them and from vitamin D supplements I get pressure in head and jaws and jittery feeling.
 

Peatful

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
3,582
Thanks Peatful, that was interesting video. I'm gonna try upping my retinol intake from real foods and drop my carotene intake to almost zero. I react negatively to vitamin A and D supplements, but no reactions to high retinol foods and taking sun. Vitamin A supplements gives me pressure in head feeling and irritated eyes the same day I take them and from vitamin D supplements I get pressure in head and jaws and jittery feeling.
Glad you found it relevant and helpful.
Thx for letting me know.
 

Nomane Euger

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2020
Messages
1,407
Wich source do you get get it from and ruin your mood?
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Messages
1,790
Wich source do you get get it from and ruin your mood?
It's mostly supplemental form that consistently gives me bad mood, but even liver, if eaten every day( say 50 grams a day, which would be about 8000 iu of retinol) does that too, although if I eat 50 grams of it on one day and don't eat any for a few days, it doesn't seem to affect my mood( at least I can't think of any situation where it did).
 

ursidae

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
1,792
I have linked to an explanation of it above. Yes, total stores. No, if you are consuming vitamin A then you are replenishing stores at the same time as depleting them.
Do you think getting around 6000-8000 iu of vitamin A per week ( from butter and cheese) from ages 10-18 would lead to the storage capacity of the liver being exceeded leading to the sudden development of a very strong intolerance to dairy and dairy fat? If the person in question was hypothyroid due to iodine deficiency and an inadequate environment. And do you think if your TSH was lower than 1.9 you’d be handling it much better? my last TSH test was 1.99 and I’m not healthy
 

maillol

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
388

I feel like their logic is backwards. If retinol and t4 share the same transport protein then it seems to me that an excess of retinol would cause hypothyroidism. Retinol taking up all the seats on the bus.

I've been experimenting with a low vitamin A diet for the past month and I am feeling warmer than I have in a long time. I will post a proper update after 2 months.
 

Sefton10

Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2019
Messages
1,593
I've been experimenting with a low vitamin A diet for the past month and I am feeling warmer than I have in a long time. I will post a proper update after 2 months.
In lowering Vit A, what else have you cut out? There's lots of potential to conflate the benefits of less Vit A with lots of other stuff it inevitably leads to cutting out.
 

maillol

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
388
In lowering Vit A, what else have you cut out? There's lots of potential to conflate the benefits of less Vit A with lots of other stuff it inevitably leads to cutting out.
I agree. In cutting out Vitamin A you cut out a lot, including dairy and most fats. I will cover this when I update properly but I notice a significant temperature drop when I eat sweet potatoes, carrots, butter or liver. These things don't have much in common apart from vitamin A.
 

Dr. B

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
4,313
Interestingly, vitamin A is one of the most effective things for my bloating. I still feel it ruins my mood though.

I agree. In cutting out Vitamin A you cut out a lot, including dairy and most fats. I will cover this when I update properly but I notice a significant temperature drop when I eat sweet potatoes, carrots, butter or liver. These things don't have much in common apart from vitamin A.
what about from whole milk? and does this mean ground beef is better than liver, or does beef also have the anti thyroid issues due to its tryptophan and methionine. do you stick to milk only or what shouldbe used for protein.. cheese and yogurts have the fermentation/lactic acid problem in them too...
 

reaching

Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2020
Messages
255
I agree. In cutting out Vitamin A you cut out a lot, including dairy and most fats. I will cover this when I update properly but I notice a significant temperature drop when I eat sweet potatoes, carrots, butter or liver. These things don't have much in common apart from vitamin A.

Is this when you eat them alone?
Like how do you feel with carrots and coconut oil or liver cooked in coconut oil?
I've noticed those to be warming but maybe its just the salt and coconut oil
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom