Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

Kray

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Hey Kray, I occasionally use white potatoes, parsnip, turnip, and celery root.

My thinking that aligns with the choline theory, was that fiber comsumption tended to bring on more and more IBS like symptoms the further along I went. People are reporting alleviating those symptoms with inclusion of eggs, providing large amounts of bio-avail choline. With digestion worsening, it would be harder to uptake choline from meat. "time to shift" is a good way of putting it.

Lots of threads on choline over here:
Thanks for that. So many twists and turns. Now more than ever I appreciate the old phrase, "everything in moderation". Thanks for clarifying from my earlier question. The low-choline connection to gut issues on a low vA diet, as well as ample fiber. I am going to try psyllium for regularity and back off on beans for now (as per orangebear's experience).
I just found out about Psoralens and I think it is worthy to mention it here.
Maybe we are fighting here not carotenes but Psoralens ... go figure.
The fact that it makes skin/eyes sensitive to sunlight is pretty scary...I knew there was smth wrong with citrus and carrots and it is not carotenes ( which in fact are protective)
And now this- another twist! Very interesting thought to consider. I had read vitamin A has same potential for photosensitivity, so not sure if carotenes also, or only preformed vA.

This sounds similar to what I experienced after 3 years as a WFPB vegan. I feel like eating too many legumes/grains and too little animal products (very low choline diet) wrecked my digestion and gave me IBS symptoms.

Do you feel better after including eggs in your diet?
Something to keep in mind not to dismiss eggs altogether.
 
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Kray

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Quick question if anyone can chime in- why is starch considered ok on the lowA diet? If I have problems with starch, is substituting with acceptable fruits be ok? Are they included just for added calories since so many foods are excluded? Thanks-
 

Apple

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Quick question if anyone can chime in- why is starch considered ok on the lowA diet? If I have problems with starch, is substituting with acceptable fruits be ok? Are they included just for added calories since so many foods are excluded? Thanks-
if you read ggenereux he also criticizes vit C...I can only say fruit in moderation is ok otherwise you encounter all kinds of goitrogens and unfriendly substances
 

Kray

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if you read ggenereux he also criticizes vit C...I can only say fruit in moderation is ok otherwise you encounter all kinds of goitrogens and unfriendly substances
Vitamin C as in fruits, or as a supplement? I thought goitrogens were usually found more in certain vegetables. Still, doesn't starch have its own problems?
 

Apple

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Vitamin C as in fruits, or as a supplement? I thought goitrogens were usually found more in certain vegetables. Still, doesn't starch have its own problems?
it was dicussed on a different thread here... Oranges are very rich source of goitrogens ...change t3, t4, tsh levels real bad, suppress thyroid
 
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Kray

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it was dicussed on a different thread here... Oranges are very rich source of goitrogens ...change t3, t4, tsh levels real bad, suppress thyroid
Thanks for pointing that out- I had never read that. The magical orange- who woulda thunk? And the vitamin C question- would you clarify? Thanks-
 

Apple

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Thanks for pointing that out- I had never read that. The magical orange- who woulda thunk? And the vitamin C question- would you clarify? Thanks-
interestingly , in this study orange juice suppresses thyroid. ( reducing both T4 and T3 levels, conversion of T4 to T3 , and increasing TSH)

Conclusion:
These findings suggest that fresh orange juice alters thyroid hormones metabolism to reduce their serum levels with a compensatory elevations of TSH level in a direction similar to CARB (Carbimazole is a medicine used to treat an overactive thyroid hyperthyroidism).


 

Orion

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This sounds similar to what I experienced after 3 years as a WFPB vegan. I feel like eating too many legumes/grains and too little animal products (very low choline diet) wrecked my digestion and gave me IBS symptoms.

Do you feel better after including eggs in your diet?
It has been a couple weeks, slowly starting to feel improvements, but to short of time to make a real decision. Anecdotal reports of 2-3 eggs per day helping healing things up to 99% in about 6 months.
 

moa

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I've been eating about 6 eggs per day for choline, for 8 months.

i started with 12 eggs per day, and recently i try to go down to 4 eggs per day as i don't need more any longer.

3 eggs is not much, it's just enaught for most people.

the only thing is to take molybdenum some days, to prevent any sulfite poisoning from eggs.

moderate zinc intake 15mg or so, is very good for VA poisoning, maybe the most important in my experience.

for IBS, especially IBS-C, i had good results with zinc, choline, maybe 25-50mg B5 each other day. in theory magnesium should help too, but i still have to try experimenting with it.
 

Kray

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OK, a lot to unpack here, and it would take months of showing research.

Omega 3 deficiencies are well described in humans. Deficiencies in omega 3 increases risk of fatty liver, depression, metabolic syndrome, for starters. Omega 3 seems to play an important role in brain health. ALA converts endogenously to EPA / DHA in the brain, but only to EPA in plasma. In rodent studies, diets of 10-30% flaxseed oil protects from such a wide array of disease conditions, I could post literally 100 studies supporting this statement.

Jamies33, please provide evidence for the assertion that “babies are born deficient in EPA / DHA”. A quote from Ray does not count as evidence.

Potato, I think 0.5 tbsp is a good amount on a daily basis, but up to 3 Tbsp per day can be used for recovering from some type of inflammatory condition. If taking high dose, make sure you are getting enough vitmain E.
How much vitamin E do you suggest daily for 1-2 Tb flax oil? Would 400IU be okay?
 

Hidden49

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I was just wondering what you guys thought about milk causing constipation and shutting off bile, it seems to have that effect on me. Is it the Vitamin A causing that, or is it the tryptophan, added hormones, or something else? I’m using high quality grass fed milk and also tried fresh goat milk too.

Thanks
 

OccamzRazer

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I was just wondering what you guys thought about milk causing constipation and shutting off bile, it seems to have that effect on me. Is it the Vitamin A causing that, or is it the tryptophan, added hormones, or something else? I’m using high quality grass fed milk and also tried fresh goat milk too.

Thanks
Does raw milk have the same effect?
 

Hidden49

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Well I’m in Costa Rica now, the goats milk may have been raw but I’m not sure it was labelled as “fresh goats milk” at the organic store, the other cows one wasn’t raw but it’s was organic and grass fed non homogenised.

In London I was only able to get non homogenised milk not raw, there was a place in London that sells raw milk I saw online but in the pictures it looked yellowish which means it’s probably high in carotenoids. And that’s not great for me.

One thing I have found with the milk consumption is the calcium content is causing high glutamate/excitoxicity symptoms and taking magnesium malate helped with those symptoms.
 

Apple

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I was just wondering what you guys thought about milk causing constipation and shutting off bile, it seems to have that effect on me. Is it the Vitamin A causing that, or is it the tryptophan, added hormones, or something else? I’m using high quality grass fed milk and also tried fresh goat milk too.

Thanks
And you don't think it is as simple as lactose intolerance ?
 

Abcdefgmo

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I just wanted to share that taking cod liver oil literally caused craniotabes, and the effects were felt instantly
I can confirm warning people about excess Vitamin A especially from supplements and liver is warranted

I've also had bad experiences with iron, instant hemochromatosis symptoms anytime I took just 27mg

Stay away from both

I have a history of copper supplementation as well, and it also felt harmful, it lowered bile production, so assuming it's another burden on the liver, at least from supplements

Interestingly, plant foods have compounds that block / chelate both iron and copper, and dont have any retinol

So many things are pointing to plant based diet being ideal
Like adrenal glands running on vitamin C (fruits vegetables )
Peat being pro carb and low fat
Acid / alkaline and calcium phosphate ratio- phosphate isnt as well absorbed on plant based, and plant foods are the primary source of potassium and magnesium
Gut bacteria needing fibers / prebiotics for immunity

Etc etc
I feel animal protein is only useful for gaining muscle mass, so chicken and egg whites included in a plant based diet is going to be my go-to

One caution about plant based, should be mostly organic, unless you're taking something that can counter the glyphosate
 

Abcdefgmo

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And if you're taking copper supplements, they're useless cupric oxide (copper 2). That's probably why I felt liver symptoms from it. Get it from foods, but not liver, because Vitamin A is a copper antagonist
Need to get it from organic plant foods


"Studies on animals have shown conclusively that cupric oxide is totally worthless," says David H. Baker, PhD, the paper's author. "Yet my survey of all the products on the market reveals that the majority of them are still using [it] to provide copper."
 

Vanset

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Yeah I didn't feel sh1t from copper supplements. I used copper glycinate. I will soon be starting an experiment involving eating beef liver for month. I will be eating 100g of beef liver a day. If I start feeling bad I will stop, but I need to correct my copper levels somehow.
 
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orangebear

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And if you're taking copper supplements, they're useless cupric oxide (copper 2). That's probably why I felt liver symptoms from it. Get it from foods, but not liver, because Vitamin A is a copper antagonist
Need to get it from organic plant foods


"Studies on animals have shown conclusively that cupric oxide is totally worthless," says David H. Baker, PhD, the paper's author. "Yet my survey of all the products on the market reveals that the majority of them are still using [it] to provide copper."
Not sure how vA is a copper antagonist. I've heard many reports of vA and copper toxicity going hand in hand, including my own experience confirmed by both symptoms and labs.
 

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