Anti-Peat Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Josiah Baldwin]

Interesting. Maybe it is the case that if you are low iron you can tolerate vitamin A better.

before you know it, people here will begin advocating lowering iron, with moderate liver consumption once a week... on a Ray Peat website...

 

[Quelsatron]

had been eating pork and potatoes for a week, felt great, ate 85 grams of chicken liver (approximately 10 days of the RDA according to the swedish nutritional database) thursday to test out my need for vitamin A since I had a decent retinol blood level back in fall, got increasingly more and more tense and uncomfortable over the last two days. Now I'm back on the anti A train lol, I had been concerned over copper because of the high content in beef liver, but clearly this must be the vitamin A doing work again, there's no way it's unrelated to the liver consumption.

 

[youngsinatra]

had been eating pork and potatoes for a week, felt great, ate 85 grams of chicken liver (approximately 10 days of the RDA according to the swedish nutritional database) thursday to test out my need for vitamin A since I had a decent retinol blood level back in fall, got increasingly more and more tense and uncomfortable over the last two days. Now I'm back on the anti A train lol, I had been concerned over copper because of the high content in beef liver, but clearly this must be the vitamin A doing work again, there's no way it's unrelated to the liver consumption.

Similar experience. At first I thought that it might be the copper I respond badly to, but it turned out that chicken liver (lacking copper, but has significant amount of the other nutrient profiling) does the same and that small amounts of cod liver oil (containing 3000 IU) triggers extreme negative reaction.

I actually experiment with Cu(I) supplementation and it makes me feel astonishingly great.

 

[shanny]

The inability to tolerate starch I think is a bad sign. It is what has fueled people for thousands of years. Like I said if you have hepatic insulin resistance sure you won't feel good trying to make starch work. But healthy people do fine on starches and the change to sugars I think was a mistake for me.

I wholeheartedly agree with this and have seen this work better at restoring health, not just for myself, but for many of the people I have worked with. I'm not saying it's the panacea to health, but I have learned over time that it's better to listen to ones body than to try to force something that doesn't feel good!!

 

[Quelsatron]

Similar experience. At first I thought that it might be the copper I respond badly to, but it turned out that chicken liver (lacking copper, but has significant amount of the other nutrient profiling) does the same and that small amounts of cod liver oil (containing 3000 IU) triggers extreme negative reaction.

I actually experiment with Cu(I) supplementation and it makes me feel astonishingly great.

Haha, you're still not off the supplements? If I were you I'd take easy on that stuff, although I'm not sure what foods are high in copper. There seems to be differing opinions on potatoes, some say you get 0.9 mg per 100 grams, some say you get 0.1 mg. If they're high, that would explain why I feel so great from that food.

 

[youngsinatra]

Haha, you're still not off the supplements? If I were you I'd take easy on that stuff, although I'm not sure what foods are high in copper. There seems to be differing opinions on potatoes, some say you get 0.9 mg per 100 grams, some say you get 0.1 mg. If they're high, that would explain why I feel so great from that food.

I have become very minimalistic in terms of supplements. I only take bovine lactoferrin, magnesium-malate and a few mg of cuprous nicotinic acid. (Mitosynergy)

I did however did not take any supplements for 2 months to get a baseline impression, but I think I ruled out the most disruptive ones, at least for me personally (vitamin D and calcium in the top tier of supps that worsen my health) and continue on the ones that do benefit me.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

I have become very minimalistic in terms of supplements. I only take bovine lactoferrin, magnesium-malate and a few mg of cuprous nicotinic acid. (Mitosynergy)

I did however did not take any supplements for 2 months to get a baseline impression, but I think I ruled out the most disruptive ones, at least for me personally (vitamin D and calcium in the top tier of supps that worsen my health) and continue on the ones that do benefit me.

Vitamin D? Can you elaborate on that? How donyou react to sun exposure?

 

[aniciete]

I have become very minimalistic in terms of supplements. I only take bovine lactoferrin, magnesium-malate and a few mg of cuprous nicotinic acid. (Mitosynergy)

I did however did not take any supplements for 2 months to get a baseline impression, but I think I ruled out the most disruptive ones, at least for me personally (vitamin D and calcium in the top tier of supps that worsen my health) and continue on the ones that do benefit me.

How do you like the malate form compared to glycinate?

 

[youngsinatra]

How do you like the malate form compared to glycinate?

I switched from glycinate to malate around 4 weeks ago. I prefer malate, as it feels more stimulating than relaxing.

I have mixed feelings with glycine and the same is true with glycinate chelates of magnesium. It modulates NMDA in a way that is sometimes not wanted, but in other scenarios helpful.

In higher amounts of magnesium glycinate I feel blunted and spaced-out, but I don‘t have that effect from malate, even in doses of 1000-1500mg of elemental magnesium.

Malic acid also has other beneficial effects in terms of heavy metal detoxification, but I have not read up that much on this one.

 

[aniciete]

I switched from glycinate to malate around 4 weeks ago. I prefer malate, as it feels more stimulating than relaxing.

I have mixed feelings with glycine and the same is true with glycinate chelates of magnesium. It modulates NMDA in a way that is sometimes not wanted, but in other scenarios helpful.

In higher amounts of magnesium glycinate I feel blunted and spaced-out, but I don‘t have that effect from malate, even in doses of 1000-1500mg of elemental magnesium.

Malic acid also has other beneficial effects in terms of heavy metal detoxification, but I have not read up that much on this one.

Interesting stuff, thanks. I just ordered some pure magnesium malate powder and I’ll give it a try.

 

[Amazoniac]

- Retinoic Acid Is Elevated in the Mucosa of Patients With Active Ulcerative Colitis and Displays a Proinflammatory Role by Augmenting IL-17 and IFNγ Production

↳ [15] Increased Production of Retinoic Acid by Intestinal Macrophages Contributes to Their Inflammatory Phenotype in Patients With Crohn’s Disease (more here)

BACKGROUND & AIMS: Reduced generation of all-trans retinoic acid (RA) by CD103+ intestinal dendritic cells (DCs) is linked to intestinal inflammation in mice. However, the role of RA in intestinal inflammation in humans is unclear. We investigated which antigen-presenting cells (APCs) produce RA in the human intestine and whether generation of RA is reduced in patients with Crohn’s disease (CD).

METHODS: Ileal and colonic tissues were collected from patients with CD during endoscopy or surgery, and healthy tissues were collected from subjects who were undergoing follow-up because of rectal bleeding, altered bowel habits, or cancer (controls). Cells were isolated from the tissue samples, and APCs were isolated by flow cytometry. Retinaldehyde dehydrogenase (RALDH) activity was assessed by Aldefluor assay, and ALDH1A expression was measured by quantitative real-time polymerase chain reaction. Macrophages were derived by incubation of human blood monocytes with granulocyte-macrophage colony–stimulating factor (GM-CSF).

RESULTS: CD103+ and CD103− DCs and CD14+ macrophages from healthy human intestine had RALDH activity. Although ALDH1A1 was not expressed by DCs, it was the predominant RALDH enzyme isoform expressed by intestinal CD14+ macrophages and their putative precursors, CD14+ monocytes. RALDH activity was upregulated in all 3 populations of APCs from patients with CD; in CD14+ macrophages, it was associated with local induction of ALDH1A1 expression. Blocking of RA receptor signaling during GM-CSF–mediated differentiation of monocytes into macrophages down-regulated CD14 and HLA-DR expression and reduced the development of tumor necrosis factor a–producing inflammatory macrophages.

CONCLUSIONS: RA receptor signaling promotes differentiation of human tumor necrosis factor a–producing inflammatory macrophages in vitro. In vivo, more CD14+ macrophages from the intestinal mucosa of patients with CD than from controls are capable of generating RA, which might increase the inflammatory phenotype of these cells. Strategies to reduce the generation of RA by CD14+ macrophages could provide new therapeutic options for patients with CD.

- Macrophages Control the Bioavailability of Vitamin D and Vitamin D-Regulated T Cell Responses

 

[LLight]

Profound gene expression changes in the epithelial monolayer of active ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s disease

In recent years it has become apparent that the epithelium is highly involved in inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) pathophysiology. The majority of gene expression studies of IBD are generated from heterogeneous biopsies, providing no distinction between immune cells, the epithelium and other...

journals.plos.org

We also see an epithelial downregulation of retinoic acid-responsive nuclear receptors (RARA, RARB, RXRA), but upregulation of retinoid-metabolizing enzymes (RDH11, ALDH1A2, ALDH1A3), which together suggest a perturbation of epithelial vitamin A signaling during active IBD.

 

[GorillaHead]

Profound gene expression changes in the epithelial monolayer of active ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s disease

In recent years it has become apparent that the epithelium is highly involved in inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) pathophysiology. The majority of gene expression studies of IBD are generated from heterogeneous biopsies, providing no distinction between immune cells, the epithelium and other...

journals.plos.org

So vitamin A is downregulated?

 

[LLight]

So vitamin A is downregulated?

The receptors of retinoic acid seems to be.
ALDH1A2 is an enzyme that catalyzes the transformation of retinol to retinoic acid.
I wonder if it means that there is too much RA in those cells.

 

[KurtisL]

The receptors of retinoic acid seems to be.
ALDH1A2 is an enzyme that catalyzes the transformation of retinol to retinoic acid.
I wonder if it means that there is too much RA in those cells.

makes sense if retinoic acid is an antiviral/bacterial compound

 

[GorillaHead]

Retinol is such a mystery. My experiences with it have been all over the map. One time I took like 5000 iu sporadically no real effects. Then one day I took it and I ended up getting a super dry scalp and no more dandruff or hair. Then that affect went away and now it doesn’t seem to be doing anything. This all must be related to vdr somehow

 

[CastorTroy]

Similar experience. At first I thought that it might be the copper I respond badly to, but it turned out that chicken liver (lacking copper, but has significant amount of the other nutrient profiling) does the same and that small amounts of cod liver oil (containing 3000 IU) triggers extreme negative reaction.

I actually experiment with Cu(I) supplementation and it makes me feel astonishingly great.

Where do you buy Cu(I)?

 

[youngsinatra]

Where do you buy Cu(I)?

Selfmade. I dissolve the desired amount of pure copper (II) glycinate powder in hot water, then add in 100mg of baking soda and 30mg of ascorbic acid. Stir and done.

 

[aniciete]

I switched from glycinate to malate around 4 weeks ago. I prefer malate, as it feels more stimulating than relaxing.

I have mixed feelings with glycine and the same is true with glycinate chelates of magnesium. It modulates NMDA in a way that is sometimes not wanted, but in other scenarios helpful.

In higher amounts of magnesium glycinate I feel blunted and spaced-out, but I don‘t have that effect from malate, even in doses of 1000-1500mg of elemental magnesium.

Malic acid also has other beneficial effects in terms of heavy metal detoxification, but I have not read up that much on this one.

How do you consume malate? Malate doesn’t fully dissolve in liquids and causes gut distress in my experience

 

[TheCalciumCad]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqbelhIdg1Q