Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Diokine]

@Amazoniac

I ordered one flat pound of dehydrated beet root flakes because of your earlier post about bike acid binding. It came today and I had three round teaspoons worth in warm water. I'm expecting miracles, please don't disappoint.

 

[Daniil]

I follow a diet low in VA and high in fructose. Basically it's sugar added to coffee/chicory and apples. I don't have any tangible liver problems, and my BMI is 22.

Fructose accelerates ALDH, so, theoretically it can lead to overproduction of retinoic acid. But I hope the other benefits outweigh.

 

[LLight]

Fructose accelerates ALDH, so, theoretically it can lead to overproduction of retinoic acid.

Do you know of other interactions between retinol and fructose/sugar? I'm interested by this topic.

I wonder if these theories that state that fructose intake is a signal to the body that winter is near are true.

Could hypervitaminosis A be more of a consequence of fat accumulation (for hibernation/winter?) than a cause? Could fructose lead to high retinol absorption like it does with iron?

 

[LLight]

Fruitarian -> high fructose, low retinol intake (and low carotenoid absorption because low fat?).
Ray peat diet -> high fructose, high retinol intake, potential high carotenoid absorption.

 

[LLight]

Consumption of fructose- but not glucose-sweetened beverages for 10 weeks increases circulating concentrations of uric acid, retinol binding protein-4, and gamma-glutamyl transferase activity in overweight/obese humans - PubMed

These findings suggest that consumption of fructose at 25% of energy requirements for 10 wks, compared with isocaloric consumption of glucose, may contribute to the development of components of the metabolic syndrome by increasing circulating uric acid, GGT activity, suggesting alteration of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Results: Consumption of fructose, but not glucose, led to significant increases of 24-h uric acid profiles (P < 0.0001) and RBP-4 concentrations (P = 0.012), as well as plasma GGT activity (P = 0.04). Fasting plasma uric acid concentrations increased in both groups; however, the response was significantly greater in subjects consuming fructose (P = 0.002 for effect of sugar). Within the fructose group male subjects exhibited larger increases of RBP-4 levels than women (P = 0.024).

Well, it was 25% fructose feeding so a bit irrealistic.

 

[LLight]

Developing a Model of Vitamin A Deficiency in a Hibernating Mammal, the 13-Lined Ground Squirrel (Ictidomys tridecemlineatus)

Retinoic acid, a bioactive metabolite of vitamin A, plays key roles in immune function and vision and adipose tissue development. Our goal was to study the effect of vitamin A deficiency in physiologic changes seen in hibernating 13-lined ground squirrels ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

RA signaling plays an important role in several organ systems, and its effects mirror many of the changes in preparation for hibernation. RA signaling affects the growth of white adipose tissue (WAT)4,29,31,37 and development of brown adipose tissue (BAT),3,30,37,47 both of which are essential to successful hibernation.7,15,19 In addition, RA promotes recruitment of T cells to the small intestine,17,21,22,35 a phenomenon observed in hibernating mammals.14,26 WAT is an essential energy source for hibernators that do not eat throughout the cold months, and BAT provides thermogenesis for periodic arousals that are necessary to survive hibernation.7,25 A large gut immune-cell population may provide an effective defense against microbes at a time when the epithelial barrier is ‘leaky.’8 Given the importance of adequate adipose stores in hibernation, we sought to determine whether decreased RA signaling affected the ability of ground squirrels to accumulate adipose mass prior to hibernation and thus altered the ability of the animals to hibernate. Studies examining the effects of RA signaling in animals suggest that inducing vitamin A deficiency is the most efficient way to halt RA signaling. Therefore, using information from a literature review of the most common vitamin A deficiency models in rats and mice,10,22,33,44 we designed a model of vitamin A deficiency where the diet was introduced to pregnant 13-lined ground squirrels approximately halfway through gestation.

Interestingly, liver retinol stores in our VAC squirrels were high relative those in other laboratory rodents, although no signs of hypervitaminosis11,40 were observed. Liver stores in squirrels not associated with the current study, some of which were euthanized immediately after trapping from the wild, were similarly high, suggesting that this condition is normal for this species. However, a larger survey of wild squirrels might provide more insight. The maintenance of high liver retinol may reflect an increased need for vitamin A, possibly due to increased expenditure of stored esters for adipose accumulation during their annual hibernation cycle.

 

[Lollipop2]

All I meant is that if you get glucose from honey you have to metabolize an equal amount of fructose. So honey is a very suitable source of energy in moderate amounts but most carb intake should come from starch. None of the ingredients for a cake taste as good as a cake itself because when you eat cake your taste buds tell your brain "Oh wow, this is the perfect balance of fructose, glucose and fat".

Okay now I understand. Thank you.

 

[Lollipop2]

Ray peat diet -> high fructose, high retinol intake, potential high carotenoid absorption.

Says who? What Ray Peat diet? Nuts how people keep hanging on to this. I follow Ray Peat principles but eat a varied tasty diet including meats, some starches, some fruits, dairy, even some vegetables. Pleeaaase stop this labeling.

 

[LLight]

Says who? What Ray Peat diet? Nuts how people keep hanging on to this. I follow Ray Peat principles but eat a varied tasty diet including meats, some starches, some fruits, dairy, even some vegetables. Pleeaaase stop this labeling.

There is no emphasis on sugar on this forum or other places where Peat's ideas are discussed?

Even if it wasn't the case, what honestly is interesting me is whether there could be an interaction between retinol absorption/accumulation and fructose consumption, not if it's called the Ray Peat diet or whatever else.

 

[Lollipop2]

There is no emphasis on sugar on this forum or other places where Peat's ideas are discussed?

Even if it wasn't the case, what honestly is interesting me is whether there could be an interaction between retinol absorption/accumulation and fructose consumption, not if it's called the Ray Peat diet or whatever else.

I think your interest is worthy, thank you for using exact words to describe that connection rather than this tiresome attacks on “Ray Peat Diet” whatever the heck that is.

And to be honest Ray doesn’t advocate for opening one’s mouth and dumping sugar down. I can see over the years a shift - before he talked about eating fruit then he noticed the fruit was not ripe and you see a shift in his language to orange juice. But this requires reading every article he has written and listening to every interview he has done.

 

[tim333]

Has anyone figured out a way to manage vitamin A toxicity induced hypertension? It‘s a very well established symptom of hypervitaminosis A.

I feel so much better on the detox, but blood pressure is still raging lately. Had frequent headaches again the last 2 weeks, blood shot eyes and daily nose bleeds. Checked BP yesterday and was 160/80 again.

It takes a good 1-2 years to reverse vitamin A toxicity, so I don‘t want to damage my heart and kidney in the meanwhile.
Got a prescription for telmisartan today. Starting tomorrow with 40mg/d. Will report back how it goes.

Avoid fluoride, it causes high blood pressure. If you're following some extreme imbalanced diet, don't. Some people use caffeine or alcohol to slow down retinoic acid production, elevated retinoic acid levels cause the symptoms.

 

[youngsinatra]

Avoid fluoride, it causes high blood pressure. If you're following some extreme imbalanced diet, don't. Some people use caffeine or alcohol to slow down retinoic acid production, elevated retinoic acid levels cause the symptoms.

I avoid fluoride for years.

I am currently on 80mg of telmisartan, BP hovering around 125/70-135/80. No side effects so far.

 

[Daniil]

Ray Peat said something about the upper limits of blood pressure being deliberately lowered in order to sell pills. Perhaps you have nothing to worry about. 160 doesn't seem very high. I think it's better to take Olmesatran if there is such a possibility, it is an agonist of VDR and this should reduce the levels of retinoic acid and can help to destroy biofilms.

 

[tim333]

But.... why?

Fructose can be oxidized more easily than glucose, and can even be used as carbohydrate when glucose can't. This is one of the main points that Peat makes.

Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.

Since the first doctor noticed, hundreds of years ago, that the urine of a diabetic patient tasted sweet, it has been common to call the condition the sugar disease, or sugar diabetes, and since nothing was known about physiological chemistry, it was commonly believed that eating too much sugar...

raypeat.com

If it is both interchangeable with glucose, more easily metabolized, and also provides special functions that glucose can't, what is the reasoning to favor starch over sugars?

Unlike glucose, which is directly metabolized widely in the body, fructose is almost entirely metabolized in the liver in humans, where it is directed toward replenishment of liver glycogen and triglyceride synthesis.[1] Under one percent of ingested fructose is directly converted to plasma triglyceride.[2] 29% - 54% of fructose is converted in liver to glucose, and about a quarter of fructose is converted to lactate. 15% - 18% is converted to glycogen.[3] Glucose and lactate are then used normally as energy to fuel cells all over the body.[2]

Fructolysis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[tim333]

Many people don't digest fructose properly, it can be a major source of gut irritation , increases gut permiability, causes allergy (runny nose), sugar increases formation of oxalate stones...

Yep that's a good point. Glucose is easier to absorb.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Unlike glucose, which is directly metabolized widely in the body, fructose is almost entirely metabolized in the liver in humans, where it is directed toward replenishment of liver glycogen and triglyceride synthesis.[1] Under one percent of ingested fructose is directly converted to plasma triglyceride.[2] 29% - 54% of fructose is converted in liver to glucose, and about a quarter of fructose is converted to lactate. 15% - 18% is converted to glycogen.[3] Glucose and lactate are then used normally as energy to fuel cells all over the body.[2]

Fructolysis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This simply quotes a Wikipedia summary which itself doesn't discount the points Peat made.

 

[youngsinatra]

 

[maillol]

I tested my iron a few months ago and it was out of range high. I have been thinking that iron may have something to do with why some can tolerate vitamin A and others can't. Iron seems to increase liver release of retinol, which could be seen as a good thing but also could make one quite sensitive to any vitamin A intake.

I have been reducing my iron intake, stopped using cast iron pans and given blood. I feel good as anyone with high iron would do if they reduced it but it also feels quite complimentary to a low vitamin A diet.

Worth looking into if you have the time. I had high iron, high transferrin saturation and normal ferritin.

Chronic iron overload causes activation of rat lipocytes in vivo


From <Chronic iron overload causes activation of rat lipocytes in vivo - PubMed>

In summary, activation of cultured lipocytes by KCM is accompanied by serum- and PDGF-dependent release of retinol; a similar mechanism may underlie retinoid loss by activated lipocytes in vivo.


From <Retinol release by activated rat hepatic lipocytes: regulation by Kupffer cell-conditioned medium and PDGF - PubMed>

Anemia associated with vitamin A deficiency and increased liver iron has implicated vitamin A in the regulation of iron release from the liver. To study this relationship further, groups of weanling rats were fed diets as follows: low iron/low vitamin A, low iron/high vitamin A, normal iron/normal vitamin A, high iron/low vitamin A and high iron/high vitamin A. After 6 weeks the animals were killed, and blood and liver samples were taken for analyses of hemoglobin, hematocrit, red blood cell count, serum and liver vitamin A, serum and liver iron and total iron-binding capacity. Low dietary iron, but not low vitamin A intake, affected hemoglobin, hematocrit and red blood cell counts but not serum vitamin A levels. Mean serum vitamin A levels were not significantly lower in groups fed high dietary iron. High dietary iron was also associated with lower mean liver vitamin A levels; these differences were statistically significant only for the low vitamin A diet group. A high vitamin A intake was associated with a significantly lower mean hepatic iron level for the high dietary iron intake group. These data support the hypothesis that vitamin A is involved in the regulation of iron release from the liver.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

I tested my iron a few months ago and it was out of range high. I have been thinking that iron may have something to do with why some can tolerate vitamin A and others can't. Iron seems to increase liver release of retinol, which could be seen as a good thing but also could make one quite sensitive to any vitamin A intake.

I have been reducing my iron intake, stopped using cast iron pans and given blood. I feel good as anyone with high iron would do if they reduced it but it also feels quite complimentary to a low vitamin A diet.

Worth looking into if you have the time. I had high iron, high transferrin saturation and normal ferritin.

I’m the exact opposite - low iron, transferrin, ferritin and do quite well on high vitamin A.

 

[maillol]

I’m the exact opposite - low iron, transferrin, ferritin and do quite well on high vitamin A.

Interesting. Maybe it is the case that if you are low iron you can tolerate vitamin A better.