Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Lollipop2]

It's much more efficient to process starchy foods for most of our glucose than it is to get it from fruit, honey and protein.

I have never heard this about fruit and honey. Can you point me to where you learned this?

 

[OccamzRazer]

yup here and @youngsinatra too IIRC

Thanks for the fast reply!

How long was it before you noticed your teeth getting whiter?

 

[tim333]

Saint Louis Style Pork Ribs - one of the richest dietary sources of k2
Maybe that's the secret of Okinawa diet and longevity...they eat pork

Why St. Louis Ribs Are So Healthy: Vitamin K2 Menaquinones

Vitamin K2 menaquinones are easily found in fermented foods -- and present in high quantities in St. Louis style pork ribs.

thepaleodiet.com

Yum. Pork also compliments diets high in white rice because it's high in thiamin.

 

[tim333]

I have never heard this about fruit and honey. Can you point me to where you learned this?

All I meant is that if you get glucose from honey you have to metabolize an equal amount of fructose. So honey is a very suitable source of energy in moderate amounts but most carb intake should come from starch. None of the ingredients for a cake taste as good as a cake itself because when you eat cake your taste buds tell your brain "Oh wow, this is the perfect balance of fructose, glucose and fat".

 

[SamYo123]

We dont have fat receptors? Fat and protien have no taste?

 

[Daniil]

I don't know if it's the receptors, but for me coconut oil is definitely not as desirable as lard/butter. And egg whites are not nearly as desirable as meat.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Anyone here eat macadamia nuts? Just realized they're high in thiamine and pretty much free of vitamin A.

 

[PaRa]

Thanks for the fast reply!

How long was it before you noticed your teeth getting whiter?

some weeks i would say

 

[OccamzRazer]

some weeks i would say

That's not too bad at all.

I might give this low-vA thing a try as yellowish teeth are my only health complaint that hasn't improved at all with lower-carb 'Peating.'

 

[OccamzRazer]

Just put a sample diet into cronometer.

Is 146 IU (6% RDV) vitamin A low enough?

 

[PaRa]

Just put a sample diet into cronometer.

Is 146 IU (6% RDV) vitamin A low enough?

most important is to keep dietary A as low as possible while keeping food enjoyable, getting fibers, sun/light exposure/ Good D status and choline rich foods

for A excess Time is your best friend

i would say that if you can stick to a way of eating with 50% of the rda its sufficien, you’ll just need More time

fibers helps to excrete A via bile

 

[SamYo123]

W

most important is to keep dietary A as low as possible while keeping food enjoyable, getting fibers, sun/light exposure/ Good D status and choline rich foods

for A excess Time is your best friend

i would say that if you can stick to a way of eating with 50% of the rda its sufficien, you’ll just need More time

fibers helps to excrete A via bile

"fibers helps to excrete A via bile" even if ya constipated?

 

[youngsinatra]

W

"fibers helps to excrete A via bile" even if ya constipated?

Without fiber 95% of excreted vitamin A gets reabsorbed in the GI tract.

 

[InChristAlone]

I honestly think a lot of...this has been something ive been really into the past few months, like beginning of year. Ive had re occurring problems of the same fashion but at various times on my health journey didn't have and felt like a champ during those times. Ive finally worked out what it is. I think a lot of times people associate gut issues with bad food (which often it is) or something to do with gut bacteria (which 99.99% of the time it isn't). Its really to do with bile...I didn't until recently and don't think people really realize how much bile people produce, how it cycles and works, and how toxic it can get. Most people have a liter of bile flowing through their small intestine, which gets picked up at the terminal illium, goes back into the liver and gall bladder, then spit back into the top of the intestine. Bile naturally is antimicrobial and a surfactant...so its keeps the small intestine clean and sterile regardless. The problem is that, many blood based, naturally produced toxins, as well as whats taken in, are eliminated in the bile, and for the most part they get reabsorbed and recirculated. During the digestion of one meal bile can go through the intestines multiple times, that's how fast and constant its flowing in a circular pattern. So realize, if you have a whole lotta dirty bile, anything you eat, or even between meals, your intestines will be irritated and food wont digest optimally. Many would attribute this to gut disbiosis when its really just dirty bile. Any fiber will help to an extent remove some of that, carrot, raw fruit, onions, whatever so you'll feel better. I felt almost if not the best I ever have when I was originally a vegan mostly eating fruit and cacao powder, and when I think about it it was low to no cholesterol, low fat, low iron, and very high in fiber..i was taking in like 40+ grams a day, and almost none of it was very fermentable. When I recall, the first month or so (this was the first time in my life id ever changed diet from relatively mainstream so I was unaware of how much food could impact things, I was more into it for ethics and to feel high flying all the time), id take huge shits with a lot of like...clearly oil soluble stuff in there. Then after that things were regular and my torso...which ive always been thin, but got like to the point where I could suck it in all the way and jus felt floaty in general. Im thinking what happened is that I cleared months to years or old bile out with allt he high fiber and then everything functioned well. Or it could equally have been...no meat or eggs, no microbes there, little to no starch, no microbes there, and the raw cacao being highly antimicrobial..so maybe I just did like a total microbe cleansing...dunno. Needless to say I burned out on that diet and had to change it. Basically the point is to say, very high amoutns of non fermentable fiber can be huge for intestinal health, for one reason or another, and its usually bile that's the problem, not gut microbes...and if it is gut microbes, its coming with your current food intake, its not something you caught that is lingering, its what you're eating

^^^^^ Awesome pboy post on toxic bile. It was my first bookmark on this forum, crazy how I ignored this very very important tenant of the Ray Peat diet. Getting rid of the toxic bile.

@Amazoniac

 

[SamYo123]

Without fiber 95% of excreted vitamin A gets reabsorbed in the GI tract.

Even if you dont ***t out any of it out?

Also what about those on a fiber free diet?

 

[youngsinatra]

Even if you dont ***t out any of it out?

Also what about those on a fiber free diet?

Well if you have constipation, then that‘s an issue on it‘s own.

Do you have constipation nonetheless or only with fiber or certain amounts?

Fiberless diets do work for a while, but I think it‘s not a good idea to maintain on it for long-term.

I had a long period of time where I consumed almost no fiber at all and had horrible gut issues and now I can handle 50-60g of fiber a day and my gut feels better than ever.

 

[youngsinatra]

Has anyone figured out a way to manage vitamin A toxicity induced hypertension? It‘s a very well established symptom of hypervitaminosis A.

I feel so much better on the detox, but blood pressure is still raging lately. Had frequent headaches again the last 2 weeks, blood shot eyes and daily nose bleeds. Checked BP yesterday and was 160/80 again.

It takes a good 1-2 years to reverse vitamin A toxicity, so I don‘t want to damage my heart and kidney in the meanwhile.
Got a prescription for telmisartan today. Starting tomorrow with 40mg/d. Will report back how it goes.

 

[InChristAlone]

Garrett Smith believes covid causes a massive bile dump, and for those who are reabsorbing it all back in then it's going through the bloodstream and causing lots of symptoms. For some that's diarrhea for others it's lung related.

 

[tankasnowgod]

All I meant is that if you get glucose from honey you have to metabolize an equal amount of fructose. So honey is a very suitable source of energy in moderate amounts but most carb intake should come from starch.

But.... why?

Fructose can be oxidized more easily than glucose, and can even be used as carbohydrate when glucose can't. This is one of the main points that Peat makes.

Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.

Since the first doctor noticed, hundreds of years ago, that the urine of a diabetic patient tasted sweet, it has been common to call the condition the sugar disease, or sugar diabetes, and since nothing was known about physiological chemistry, it was commonly believed that eating too much sugar...

raypeat.com

In an earlier newsletter, I wrote about P. A. Piorry in Paris, in 1864, and Dr. William Budd in England, in 1867, who treated diabetes by adding a large amount of ordinary sugar, sucrose, to the patient's diet. Glucose was known to be the sugar appearing in the diabetics' urine, but sucrose consists of half glucose, and half fructose. In 1874, E. Kulz in Germany reported that diabetics could assimilate fructose better than glucose. In the next decades there were several more reports on the benefits of feeding fructose, including the reduction of glucose in the urine. With the discovery of insulin in 1922, fructose therapy was practically forgotten, until the 1950s when new manufacturing techniques began to make it economical to use.

If fructose can by-pass the fatty acids' inhibition of glucose metabolism, to be oxidized when glucose can't, and if the metabolism of diabetes involves the oxidation of fatty acids instead of glucose, then we would expect there to be less than the normal amount of fructose in the serum of diabetics, although their defining trait is the presence of an increased amount of glucose. According to Osuagwu and Madumere (2008), that is the case. If a fructose deficiency exists in diabetes, then it is appropriate to supplement it in the diet.

Besides being one of the forms of sugar involved in ordinary energy production, interchangeable with glucose, fructose has some special functions, that aren't as well performed by glucose. It is the main sugar involved in reproduction, in the seminal fluid and intrauterine fluid, and in the developing fetus. After these crucial stages of life are past, glucose becomes the primary molecular source of energy, except when the system is under stress. It has been suggested (Jauniaux, et al., 2005) that the predominance of fructose rather than glucose in the embryo's environment helps to maintain ATP and the oxidative state (cellular redox potential) during development in the low-oxygen environment. The placenta turns glucose from the mother's blood into fructose, and the fructose in the mother's blood can pass through into the fetus, and although glucose can move back from the fetus into the mother's blood, fructose is unable to move in that direction, so a high concentration is maintained in the fluids around the fetus.

If it is both interchangeable with glucose, more easily metabolized, and also provides special functions that glucose can't, what is the reasoning to favor starch over sugars?

 

[Apple]

But.... why?

Fructose can be oxidized more easily than glucose, and can even be used as carbohydrate when glucose can't. This is one of the main points that Peat makes.

Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.

Since the first doctor noticed, hundreds of years ago, that the urine of a diabetic patient tasted sweet, it has been common to call the condition the sugar disease, or sugar diabetes, and since nothing was known about physiological chemistry, it was commonly believed that eating too much sugar...

raypeat.com

If it is both interchangeable with glucose, more easily metabolized, and also provides special functions that glucose can't, what is the reasoning to favor starch over sugars?

Many people don't digest fructose properly, it can be a major source of gut irritation , increases gut permiability, causes allergy (runny nose), sugar increases formation of oxalate stones...