Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[InChristAlone]

I stumbled on something very interesting.... thiamine deficiency can result in excess levels of phytanic acid in the blood which can cause these symptoms: "cerebellar ataxia, scaly skin eruptions, difficulty in hearing, cataracts and night blindness. " Thiamine Deficiency and Aberrant Fat Metabolism: Clues to Adverse Reactions- Hormones Matter

Dairy fat is high in phytanic acid! Could this be one reason people are sensitive to dairy? It could just be thiamine deficiency and not the vitamin A.

 

[youngsinatra]

I stumbled on something very interesting.... thiamine deficiency can result in excess levels of phytanic acid in the blood which can cause these symptoms: "cerebellar ataxia, scaly skin eruptions, difficulty in hearing, cataracts and night blindness. " Thiamine Deficiency and Aberrant Fat Metabolism: Clues to Adverse Reactions- Hormones Matter

Dairy fat is high in phytanic acid! Could this be one reason people are sensitive to dairy? It could just be thiamine deficiency and not the vitamin A.

B1 is extremely important in the vitamin A detoxification process.
B1 seems to complex with aldehydes (acetaldehyde) (paper), formaldehyde (paper), active aldehydes (paper), so it makes sense that it would also complex with retinaldehyde. (vitamin A)
This process could make B1 unavailable or destroyed it in the process, resulting in B1 deficiency in the presence of vitamin A toxicity.

If you eat whole grains or beans, you get plenty of thiamine. Consuming beans or whole grains resolved beri beri in the past.
Drinking coffee can hinder thiamine absorption.

 

[Apple]

Just 100 grams of oats (half of cup) contain: 51 percent of the daily recommended intake of thiamine.

 

[InChristAlone]

Just 100 grams of oats (half of cup) contain: 51 percent of the daily recommended intake of thiamine.

The RDA is ridiculously low, it will keep you alive, that's about it. I'd rather be full of energy than lethargic, cognitively slow, anxiety and depression, dysautonomia, neuropathy, etc. There's a reason people have been harping about thiamine lately. High sugar diets cause thiamine deficiency.

 

[Lollipop2]

For a moment I thought that you've been brainwashed too.

We can't exclude a food based on a factor of it that can be taxing without considering the rest. For example, coffee may be eliminated for being rich in caffeine (xanthine oxidase), supposedly competing for morbydenum with the enzymes that oxidize poisonal, but you'll find that decaffeination doesn't solve the issue for everyone. Despite its caffeine, in the case of fat-soluble "vitamin" overload, bile excretion gains importance and coffee is excellent for stimulating bile discharge and protecting the liver.

Targeting phenol-rich foods (such as blueberries) was predictable, the concern certainly isn't new, you can confirm by the number of digestive enzymes meant for phenols on the market. Again, this can't be sole factor in determining what stays in a diet. The products allow whoever can't consume them in moderation to not eliminate an entire class of foods because of one compound. Without finding a way around inconvenients, you soon end up with extreme restrictions.

A food being rich in pigments doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be a burden to the body. Some of them are not absorbed and will be protective throughout the gut. For someone like himself that's dealing with hydrogen sulfide excess (highest concentration is in the intestine), they can be therapeutic. There are pigments that remain conserved and are possibly too inert to interact with other molecules; perhaps the useful ones are those that are strong enough to appear in feces, yet with less intensity to indicate that reactions occurred. It wouldn't be surprising if hydrogen sulfide interferred with the utilization of oxygen by carotene oxygenase.

Apparently, he doesn't tolerate sulfate supplementation in any form, not even transdermally. It can be that he's infected and whenever sulfate is in abundance, the body tries to replete afflicted regions, fueling the issue. Applying it with venom D may be an option to modulate the effect.

I'm surprised that poisonoids are rarely reported to complex with sulfur compounds other than taurine.
- The structures of the unique sulfotransferase retinol dehydratase with product and inhibitors provide insight into enzyme mechanism and inhibition

Anyway, he has just stated that sulfur is toxic as well, now we can lump it to the harmful poison A, venom D, thyroiditium/iodine, killcium, milk, potato, every allium and brassica food, colored fruits and vegetables (no longer limited to carotenoids, excluding practically the whole spectrum at this point: violet-red), coconut products, cocoa products, coffee, eggs, and others that I don't remember off the top of my head. The list keeps growing. There was the mockery in renaming fructose as 'awbuzze', for 'alcohol without the buzz sugar', and here we have this guy taking it seriously. Meanwhile, Grant is wondering if there's a need for "vitamin" C in the diet. What a shït show.

---

- Aldehyde Oxidase Contributes to All-Trans-Retinoic Acid Biosynthesis in Human Liver

?

 

[OccamzRazer]

The RDA is ridiculously low, it will keep you alive, that's about it. I'd rather be full of energy than lethargic, cognitively slow, anxiety and depression, dysautonomia, neuropathy, etc. There's a reason people have been harping about thiamine lately. High sugar diets cause thiamine deficiency.

What do you eat to get more thiamine?

 

[InChristAlone]

What do you eat to get more thiamine?

Currently I'm taking thiamine HCL because the only foods I eat that have any are some red meat and pork. But I honestly don't think a measly 2 mg a day with a high carb diet will protect any of us from a deficiency.

 

[SamYo123]

Currently I'm taking thiamine HCL because the only foods I eat that have any are some red meat and pork. But I honestly don't think a measly 2 mg a day with a high carb diet will protect any of us from a deficiency.

Wheres durainrider getting thiamine from?

 

[Vinero]

I stumbled on something very interesting.... thiamine deficiency can result in excess levels of phytanic acid in the blood which can cause these symptoms: "cerebellar ataxia, scaly skin eruptions, difficulty in hearing, cataracts and night blindness. " Thiamine Deficiency and Aberrant Fat Metabolism: Clues to Adverse Reactions- Hormones Matter

Dairy fat is high in phytanic acid! Could this be one reason people are sensitive to dairy? It could just be thiamine deficiency and not the vitamin A.

Interesting, so maybe a thiamin deficiency is the cause for Refsum disease?
These individuals must avoid foods containing phytanic acid since they can't process it.
But for normal individuals, phytanic acid is supposed to be protective, since it acts like an antagonist to retinoic acid. Phytanic acid is especially abundant in butter. I assumed that the positive effects that butter had in curing my night blindness and dry eyes was because of the protective effect of phytanic acid.
Dr Smith has research on the positive effects of phytanic acid in VA toxicity:

Phytol & phytanic acid prevent Poison/"Vitamin A"-toxicity related birth defects and miscarriages

Definition of teratogen:Any agent that can disturb the development of an embryo or fetus. Teratogens may cause a birth defect in the child. Or a teratogen may …

nutritionrestored.com

Phytol and phytanic acid, showing how the RXR works

This is a bit complicated and will be worked into the retinoid X receptor (RXR) explanations later.I will try to explain this in a logical progression after …

nutritionrestored.com

 

[Daniil]

I disagree with Garrett Smith's interpretation here. I believe that activating RXR has the effect of lowering retinoic acid levels. This is consistent with the fact that phytanic acid, being a RXR ligand, reduces retinoic acid levels and symptoms of hypervitaminosis A. But as indicated here, not completely. I think Refsum's disease is an adaptive reaction of some people to hypervitaminosis A. And the symptoms are caused by hypervitaminosis A, not by phytanic acid. Another "genetic" disease.

For the same reason, I do not believe that there really is a deficiency of other RXR ligands (DHA and arachidonic acid). Simply binding these substances to RXR reduces the symptoms of hypervitaminosis A by reducing retinoic acid levels. Ray Peat cites many references that humans and mice can live perfectly on a low-fat diet.

Interesting, so maybe a thiamin deficiency is the cause for Refsum disease?
These individuals must avoid foods containing phytanic acid since they can't process it.
But for normal individuals, phytanic acid is supposed to be protective, since it acts like an antagonist to retinoic acid. Phytanic acid is especially abundant in butter. I assumed that the positive effects that butter had in curing my night blindness and dry eyes was because of the protective effect of phytanic acid.
Dr Smith has research on the positive effects of phytanic acid in VA toxicity:

Phytol & phytanic acid prevent Poison/"Vitamin A"-toxicity related birth defects and miscarriages

Definition of teratogen:Any agent that can disturb the development of an embryo or fetus. Teratogens may cause a birth defect in the child. Or a teratogen may …

nutritionrestored.com

Phytol and phytanic acid, showing how the RXR works

This is a bit complicated and will be worked into the retinoid X receptor (RXR) explanations later.I will try to explain this in a logical progression after …

nutritionrestored.com

 

[InChristAlone]

Wheres durainrider getting thiamine from?

No idea, I mean there is some in fruit but it's an extremely small amount. Also our gut bacteria do contribute to b vitamin status but most people have dysbiosis.

 

[InChristAlone]

Interesting, so maybe a thiamin deficiency is the cause for Refsum disease?
These individuals must avoid foods containing phytanic acid since they can't process it.
But for normal individuals, phytanic acid is supposed to be protective, since it acts like an antagonist to retinoic acid. Phytanic acid is especially abundant in butter. I assumed that the positive effects that butter had in curing my night blindness and dry eyes was because of the protective effect of phytanic acid.
Dr Smith has research on the positive effects of phytanic acid in VA toxicity:

Phytol & phytanic acid prevent Poison/"Vitamin A"-toxicity related birth defects and miscarriages

Definition of teratogen:Any agent that can disturb the development of an embryo or fetus. Teratogens may cause a birth defect in the child. Or a teratogen may …

nutritionrestored.com

Phytol and phytanic acid, showing how the RXR works

This is a bit complicated and will be worked into the retinoid X receptor (RXR) explanations later.I will try to explain this in a logical progression after …

nutritionrestored.com

Yeah I don't know what to make of the phytanic acid thing as Garret doesn't recommend animal fat at all anymore, but I've never felt that cream/butter was toxic. Quite the contrary butter is protective, Weston A Price found the high vitamin butter oil to protect from the toxicity of cod liver oil.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

Wheres durainrider getting thiamine from?

From durians ???

 

[tim333]

Healthy humans eat starch imo. I only add fructose to taste (sucrose and honey) to my porridge and coffee. To this I have to add the fructose from fruit and I don't think I ever reach 50g of fructose in a day.

Yep, homo sapiens are distinguished by our affinity for starch. Neanderthals lacked amylase and may have been almost carnivorous, they were probably better at gluconeogenesis than us featherless bipeds. It's much more efficient to process starchy foods for most of our glucose than it is to get it from fruit, honey and protein.

 

[tim333]

I just read a long paper by Weston A Price and he cured many patients of cavities along with some miraculous cures of rheumatism with high vitamin butter oil, milk, cream and freshly ground wheat and wheat germ! Maybe it's the vitamin E in the whole wheat as well.

The high vitamin butter oil was for Activator X, vitamin K2 MK4. I think that the A:K2 ratio of a food is more important than how much K2 it has though. Lard, tallow and meat have the best A:K2 MK4 ratios.

 

[Apple]

The high vitamin butter oil was for Activator X, vitamin K2 MK4. I think that the A:K2 ratio of a food is more important than how much K2 it has though. Lard, tallow and meat have the best A:K2 MK4 ratios.

from dairy/butter more important is wulzen factor.

 

[tim333]

from dairy/butter more important is wulzen factor.

Interesting but definitely not more important than K2 which is considered essential for optimum health.

 

[Apple]

Interesting but definitely not more important than K2 which is considered essential for optimum health.

Saint Louis Style Pork Ribs - one of the richest dietary sources of k2
Maybe that's the secret of Okinawa diet and longevity...they eat pork

Why St. Louis Ribs Are So Healthy: Vitamin K2 Menaquinones

Vitamin K2 menaquinones are easily found in fermented foods -- and present in high quantities in St. Louis style pork ribs.

thepaleodiet.com

 

[OccamzRazer]

Has anyone noticed whiter teeth since starting a no-VA diet?

 

[PaRa]

Has anyone noticed whiter teeth since starting a no-VA diet?

yup here and @youngsinatra too IIRC