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Anti-Peat Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

sugarbabe

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and to give what almost sounds as a plugin - I would recomend trying som lactoferrin to help with that choleostasis. From bad experience Id say its a very good idea indeed to buy it directly from Garrett Smith since that one is not denaturated and not made from whey but milk. So its organic as well - to me that made a HUGE difference (thats why "plugin warning")
That's great the lactoferrin from him is working much better for you. Do you still eat mainly white rice or were you able to do the beans?
 

Eberhardt

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That's great the lactoferrin from him is working much better for you. Do you still eat mainly white rice or were you able to do the beans?
Beans too now. But it was in the opposite order. I figured I used to tolerate canned tomatobeans earlier. I found out what kind it was and now I do them. I still have to go extreeemwly slow on the lacto thougg i have breakdays inbetween.
 

youngsinatra

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Beans too now. But it was in the opposite order. I figured I used to tolerate canned tomatobeans earlier. I found out what kind it was and now I do them. I still have to go extreeemwly slow on the lacto thougg i have breakdays inbetween.
How much LF are you using currently?

I just started on 50mg of pure LF/d for 5 days or so and already feel some effects of it. Increased bowel movement frequency and my stool seems to get back their brown colour (beforehand it was pretty pale indicating low excretion of bile I think?)
 

Eberhardt

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How much LF are you using currently?

I just started on 50mg of pure LF/d for 5 days or so and already feel some effects of it. Increased bowel movement frequency and my stool seems to get back their brown colour (beforehand it was pretty pale indicating low excretion of bile I think?)
I heard that that is a sign of bileredutction yes - I got that from the other lactoferrin.

I take a ridicilously low dose. 1/128th of a teaspoon measurement and not every day at all! Im building up to that. Just going up to 1/64th or taking it everyway makes me build up bile and I get severe overburdening symptoms like TMJ, swelling severe toothpain and gum infections, anxiety, paranoia and total sleeplessness. like 100% no sleep. It clears in some days when I stop. I guess I am at 1 or 2mg a day actually. He recommends starting at what I think amounts to around 10+ mg everyday for the first 4 weeks.
 

sugarbabe

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I heard that that is a sign of bileredutction yes - I got that from the other lactoferrin.

I take a ridicilously low dose. 1/128th of a teaspoon measurement and not every day at all! Im building up to that. Just going up to 1/64th or taking it everyway makes me build up bile and I get severe overburdening symptoms like TMJ, swelling severe toothpain and gum infections, anxiety, paranoia and total sleeplessness. like 100% no sleep. It clears in some days when I stop. I guess I am at 1 or 2mg a day actually. He recommends starting at what I think amounts to around 10+ mg everyday for the first 4 weeks.
Wow that's intense! I read previously in the thread you consumed over 100k retinol a day?
 

Eberhardt

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Wow that's intense! I read previously in the thread you consumed over 100k retinol a day?
Yeah I did average aboit 135000 for years. And I was born with jaundice as well as probably choleostatic since childhood as I got lots of drugs and medicines so I probably builded up longer.
 

KurtisL

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What symptoms do you have from the high bilirubin? Have you ever had your serum bile acids tested? Supposedly it should be zero and if there are bile acids in the blood it's because of cholestasis. Did you eliminate fruit as well? I'm having trouble coming to terms with the fruit sugar lol. It's like liquid candy. I think I can still have some especially in the morning when glycogen is very low and cortisol is high. I have found easing into morning insulin responses the best way to deal with the crash afterwards. Unfortunately certain starches are very good at shooting out lots of insulin (but so are some proteins) so that needs to be considered. When my cortisol was highest from undereating, highly refined cereal was the worst, white rice pretty bad as well, but that just goes to show how bad my liver was. Starches should not cause such a large adrenaline response with good glucose control.
I'm doing zero fructose for 3 months before considering adding back fruits, it's been surprisingly easy, although the Venn diagram of foods that are both low in sugar and low in VA is tiny...
 

sugarbabe

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Yeah I did average aboit 135000 for years. And I was born with jaundice as well as probably choleostatic since childhood as I got lots of drugs and medicines so I probably builded up longer.
Wow the highest I ever did was 20,000 and that was only rarely. More like 10,000 on days I had liver. But I had signs of liver issues back when I was a kid as well due to antibiotics and using steroids to get me to grow (growth hormones shots). Garrett said steroids are the most complex to break down in the liver.

I'm doing zero fructose for 3 months before considering adding back fruits, it's been surprisingly easy, although the Venn diagram of foods that are both low in sugar and low in VA is tiny...
Yeah it does really limit the diet. Which I am okay with as I prefer eating similar things per week instead of 'eating the rainbow'.
 

Eberhardt

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Wow the highest I ever did was 20,000 and that was only rarely. More like 10,000 on days I had liver. But I had signs of liver issues back when I was a kid as well due to antibiotics and using steroids to get me to grow (growth hormones shots). Garrett said steroids are the most complex to break down in the liver.


Yeah it does really limit the diet. Which I am okay with as I prefer eating similar things per week instead of 'eating the rainbow'.

Wow the highest I ever did was 20,000 and that was only rarely. More like 10,000 on days I had liver. But I had signs of liver issues back when I was a kid as well due to antibiotics and using steroids to get me to grow (growth hormones shots). Garrett said steroids are the most complex to break down in the liver.


Yeah it does really limit the diet. Which I am okay with as I prefer eating similar things per week instead of 'eating the rainbow'.
To take the part not directed to me I am the same. I never really enjoyed vegetables and not very interested in cooking so I can get away with just repeating mostly even if theres slight variations Would be worse if I was a foodie.

wow how could you get that little?? I didnt even supplement! I calculated mine with cronometer so might have been a bit more also but on average... I know there has been days I'd hit 200.000....Like if I ate a pound of chicken liver with gravy, a pound of raw carrots, a pound of ruccola or spinach, a pound of tomatoes, liberal amounts of hiprose powder, cheese and sweet potatoe in one day!!! I luckily didnt get the steroid shots (which was considered but not done luckily!), but antibiotics in addition to other stuff. I guress thats why Ive always had problems using hormonedrops while Peating. I figured that my thyroid problem was that my liver wasnt converting some years ago but didnt connect why
 

sugarbabe

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To take the part not directed to me I am the same. I never really enjoyed vegetables and not very interested in cooking so I can get away with just repeating mostly even if theres slight variations Would be worse if I was a foodie.

wow how could you get that little?? I didnt even supplement! I calculated mine with cronometer so might have been a bit more also but on average... I know there has been days I'd hit 200.000....Like if I ate a pound of chicken liver with gravy, a pound of raw carrots, a pound of ruccola or spinach, a pound of tomatoes, liberal amounts of hiprose powder, cheese and sweet potatoe in one day!!! I luckily didnt get the steroid shots (which was considered but not done luckily!), but antibiotics in addition to other stuff. I guress thats why Ive always had problems using hormonedrops while Peating. I figured that my thyroid problem was that my liver wasnt converting some years ago but didnt connect why
A pound of raw carrots?!! I could barely do one small bowl of the raw carrot salad lol. I think my guts always told me carotenoids were toxic. And I gagged at liver. I am a wimp when it comes to foods that taste even a little bit strong. Can't do too much hot sauce either my tastebuds are like STOP. The only thing I recently pushed through was eating 3 eggs a day, I had started getting kinda gaggy at the thought of them but I kept thinking they were good for me. Feeling much better not eating eggs. I'm trying to remember all the things I did before I got obsessed with health and nutrition because I was way healthier back then. I ate lots of pasta, chicken, bananas, bagels, bread, pancakes and bacon, burgers, potatoes, cheese, ground beef tacos basically just a plain diet. Nothing fancy. That's what I grew up on and I think it's hard to convince your body that you know better than it does!
 

Korven

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I ate lots of pasta, chicken, bananas, bagels, bread, pancakes and bacon, burgers, potatoes, cheese, ground beef tacos basically just a plain diet.

This is pretty much exactly what I ate when I was the healthiest and most robust, had the most amount of muscle and good looks etc. Not everything was perfect but things definitely got a lot worse as a result of obsessing over nutrition and trying to "eat healthy". I feel like all this theory about good and bad foods has messed with my head so much.

There's something to be said about the anti-stress, blood sugar stabilizing effect of a big bowl of pasta bolognese.
 

Eberhardt

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A pound of raw carrots?!! I could barely do one small bowl of the raw carrot salad lol. I think my guts always told me carotenoids were toxic. And I gagged at liver. I am a wimp when it comes to foods that taste even a little bit strong. Can't do too much hot sauce either my tastebuds are like STOP. The only thing I recently pushed through was eating 3 eggs a day, I had started getting kinda gaggy at the thought of them but I kept thinking they were good for me. Feeling much better not eating eggs. I'm trying to remember all the things I did before I got obsessed with health and nutrition because I was way healthier back then. I ate lots of pasta, chicken, bananas, bagels, bread, pancakes and bacon, burgers, potatoes, cheese, ground beef tacos basically just a plain diet. Nothing fancy. That's what I grew up on and I think it's hard to convince your body that you know better than it does!
I generally agrees with you. Actually just where Im now that diet minus the bacon sounds better then most peoples diet!! I am sort of "good" at just making myself do stuff and its not a troublefree ability. But carrots dont taste that much?? I think maybe Im aculturated - they push carrots everwhere for raw consumption here (at least until covid) and they sell "baby-carrots" in half pound snack packs for kids and others. But I could always easily just take them. I dont understand the peeling the carrot thing, sure if one wanted to be a bit fancy like for guests. I thin the most I ate a day of raw carrot (not babycarrots) was two pounds haha. crazy s**t. I had a similar reaction with eggs though - I kept eating it just surpressing nausea. I ate about 4-6 every morning and sometimes my groin would smell eggs :( I also liked indian foods. I dont eat eggs at all now, not only is eating only whites not very appetizing but I feel much better without. I think most simple stupid diets from 50 years ago are better then most now. lol
 

sugarbabe

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This is pretty much exactly what I ate when I was the healthiest and most robust, had the most amount of muscle and good looks etc. Not everything was perfect but things definitely got a lot worse as a result of obsessing over nutrition and trying to "eat healthy". I feel like all this theory about good and bad foods has messed with my head so much.

There's something to be said about the anti-stress, blood sugar stabilizing effect of a big bowl of pasta bolognese.
Yeah pasta is amazing. Been eating it since a small child. I loved it so much I even munched on it raw as a weird teenager.

I generally agrees with you. Actually just where Im now that diet minus the bacon sounds better then most peoples diet!! I am sort of "good" at just making myself do stuff and its not a troublefree ability. But carrots dont taste that much?? I think maybe Im aculturated - they push carrots everwhere for raw consumption here (at least until covid) and they sell "baby-carrots" in half pound snack packs for kids and others. But I could always easily just take them. I dont understand the peeling the carrot thing, sure if one wanted to be a bit fancy like for guests. I thin the most I ate a day of raw carrot (not babycarrots) was two pounds haha. crazy s**t. I had a similar reaction with eggs though - I kept eating it just surpressing nausea. I ate about 4-6 every morning and sometimes my groin would smell eggs :( I also liked indian foods. I dont eat eggs at all now, not only is eating only whites not very appetizing but I feel much better without. I think most simple stupid diets from 50 years ago are better then most now. lol
Carrots are terrible! haha, especially ones I grew myself, they had a much stronger flavor and lasted many months in the fridge without any sort of decay, they even started regrowing lol. I hated them so much that's why they sat there for so long. Yeah egg whites are not appetizing to me. Simple diets from yrs past seem to be the best!
 

Eberhardt

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Yeah pasta is amazing. Been eating it since a small child. I loved it so much I even munched on it raw as a weird teenager.


Carrots are terrible! haha, especially ones I grew myself, they had a much stronger flavor and lasted many months in the fridge without any sort of decay, they even started regrowing lol. I hated them so much that's why they sat there for so long. Yeah egg whites are not appetizing to me. Simple diets from yrs past seem to be the best!
haha just have to comment on the longlived carrots. Good for you that your body revolted more, I didnt enjoy it but handled it. Liver eating was worse. while the taste was ok I thought I never could eat it more then a couple of days in a row and then had to take a break for a month or two as I just felt generally uncomfortable and unwell in a weird way. Anyways I know about the sprouting carrots. Several times when I had bought to much or got fed up the store carrots also started sprouting, once growing 20cm saplings in my fridge haha. Didnt take as long as yours though. I think most vegetables are supposed to act like that if natural. I had sprouting salads too
 

sugarbabe

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haha just have to comment on the longlived carrots. Good for you that your body revolted more, I didnt enjoy it but handled it. Liver eating was worse. while the taste was ok I thought I never could eat it more then a couple of days in a row and then had to take a break for a month or two as I just felt generally uncomfortable and unwell in a weird way. Anyways I know about the sprouting carrots. Several times when I had bought to much or got fed up the store carrots also started sprouting, once growing 20cm saplings in my fridge haha. Didnt take as long as yours though. I think most vegetables are supposed to act like that if natural. I had sprouting salads too
Haha! Yes many vegetables will try to re sprout if given enough moisture. Most times grocery store produce would just turn mushy in the fridge so I guess produce at our stores is just not very good quality.
 

Vinero

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This is pretty much exactly what I ate when I was the healthiest and most robust, had the most amount of muscle and good looks etc. Not everything was perfect but things definitely got a lot worse as a result of obsessing over nutrition and trying to "eat healthy". I feel like all this theory about good and bad foods has messed with my head so much.

There's something to be said about the anti-stress, blood sugar stabilizing effect of a big bowl of pasta bolognese.
I've had these exact same thoughts this year. I've tried the experiment of eating everything.
I've added back in pasta, butter, cheese, eggs, potatoes, dark chocolate, milk products and other foods I used to eat "when I was healthy"
It went good for a while. But after some time I start to get issues again. Eczema coming back. Brain fog. Weight gain. Blood pressure problems.
I've come to the point that eating any milk or cheese gives me heart palpitations. Doesn't matter if it's low fat or high fat. I tried a nonfat yogurt recently and felt drowsy and depressed for 3 days, along with itching skin in my face, neck, and behind my ears.

Eating any high fat meal at this point will make me feel like garbage. I've experimented with coconut oil, olive oil, fatty beef, chocolate and all make me feel bad if eaten daily. Butter sometimes, only in small amounts feels good.

Potatoes also make me feel bad if eaten daily. Probably because of all that cholestasis-inducing soluble fiber. My body seems to react way better to INsoluble fibers like those found in brown rice, whole wheat bread, corn products and lentils.
I feel like Soluble fiber CAUSES cholestasis in me. So no more beans, potatoes, fruits, oats, barley and other grains please.
The only grains I eat are rice (white or brown) and whole wheat, since those have a high insoluble/soluble fiber ratio.
In my opinion it's no coincidence that the staple foods of the world (rice, wheat and corn) are all high in insoluble fiber, low in soluble fiber. It's because these foods don't cause cholestasis and people feel good eating them.

My experiments from last year have forced me to go back to a low fat, low soluble fiber, dairy-free diet.
I'm currently just eating rice, whole wheat bread and lean meats.
No dairy, eggs, organ meats, fruit or vegetables.
My body seems to be in healing mode again. Eczema going away. More mental clarity.
 
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sugarbabe

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I've had these exact same thoughts this year. I've tried the experiment of eating everything.
I've added back in pasta, butter, cheese, eggs, potatoes, dark chocolate, milk products and other foods I used to eat "when I was healthy"
It went good for a while. But after some time I start to get issues again. Eczema coming back. Brain fog. Weight gain. Blood pressure problems.
I've come to the point that eating any milk or cheese gives me heart palpitations. Doesn't matter if it's low fat or high fat. I tried a nonfat yogurt recently and felt drowsy and depressed for 3 days, along with itching skin in my face, neck, and behind my ears.

Eating any high fat meal at this point will make me feel like garbage. I've experimented with coconut oil, olive oil, fatty beef, chocolate and all make me feel bad if eaten daily. Butter sometimes, only in small amounts feels good.

Potatoes also make me feel bad if eaten daily. Probably because of all that cholestasis-inducing soluble fiber. My body seems to react way better to INsoluble fibers like those found in brown rice, whole wheat bread, corn products and lentils.
I feel like Soluble fiber CAUSES cholestasis in me. So no more beans, potatoes, fruits, oats, barley and other grains please.
The only grains I eat are rice (white or brown) and whole wheat, since those have a high insoluble/soluble fiber ratio.
In my opinion it's no coincidence that the staple foods of the world (rice, wheat and corn) are all high in insoluble fiber, low in soluble fiber. It's because these foods don't cause cholestasis and people feel good eating them.

My experiments from last year have forced me to go back to a low fat, low soluble fiber, dairy-free diet.
I'm currently just eating rice, whole wheat bread and lean meats.
No dairy, eggs, organ meats, fruit or vegetables.
My body seems to be in healing mode again. Eczema going away. More mental clarity.
Ray does advocate some roughage such as the carrot, mushroom or bamboo shoots to carry out bile form the intestines, but unfortunately for me roughage causes insane cramping or I would eat whole wheat. Might be a sign my body needs to consume it so that it can get rid of the toxic bile, but the symptoms are so uncomfortable to push through. I agree that some soluble fibers can cause constipation for people which is no bueno for bile.
 

Vinero

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Ray does advocate some roughage such as the carrot, mushroom or bamboo shoots to carry out bile form the intestines, but unfortunately for me roughage causes insane cramping or I would eat whole wheat. Might be a sign my body needs to consume it so that it can get rid of the toxic bile, but the symptoms are so uncomfortable to push through. I agree that some soluble fibers can cause constipation for people which is no bueno for bile.
Have you tried whole wheat sourdough bread? That's easier on the intestines since the gluten are mostly gone. I only had mild digestive rumbling with that the first 2 days of introducing it. After those first few days I could digest it effortlessly. I am now trying out regular whole wheat to see if I can digest that. So far it does feel a little hard on the intestines, but maybe I'll adapt to it. We'll see.

One massive benefit I've experienced because of the whole wheat is that I now have perfect bowel movements. I used to be constipated when I was just eating white rice and meat. My poops are now soft, easily passed and a healthy brown color.
When I was eating barley or beans as my source of fiber, my stools became yellow/pale.
I intuitively felt this was a sign of a toxic liver/bile. My mood also became very bad quickly, my body felt toxic and eczema came back.
So far the whole wheat bread hasn't had these negative effects. I feel pretty good, no depression or toxic feelings. So I think this confirms my theory of insoluble fiber = good. Soluble fiber = bad. Whole wheat bread is mostly insoluble fiber, which doesn't feed gut bacteria which produce inflammatory metabolites like lithocholic acid which causes cholestasis and liver damage.
 
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sugarbabe

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Have you tried whole wheat sourdough bread? That's easier on the intestines since the gluten are mostly gone. I only had mild digestive rumbling with that the first 2 days of introducing it. After those first few days I could digest it effortlessly. I am now trying out regular whole wheat to see if I can digest that. So far it does feel a little hard on the intestines, but maybe I'll adapt to it. We'll see.

One massive benefit I've experienced because of the whole wheat is that I now have perfect bowel movements. I used to be constipated when I was just eating white rice and meat. My poops are now soft, easily passed and a healthy brown color.
When I was eating barley or beans as my source of fiber, my stools became yellow/pale.
I intuitively felt this was a sign of a toxic liver/bile. My mood also became very bad quickly, my body felt toxic and eczema came back.
So far the whole wheat bread hasn't had these negative effects. I feel pretty good, no depression or toxic feelings. So I think this confirms my theory of insoluble fiber = good. Soluble fiber = bad. Whole wheat bread is mostly insoluble fiber, which doesn't feed gut bacteria which produce inflammatory metabolites like lithocholic acid which causes cholestasis and liver damage.
Yes my stool is great on whole grains, nice brown color that sinks instead of floats, but it just results in SO MUCH of it that my intestines get all cramped up getting it all out. IBS. Can't eat oatmeal due to this as well. Or nuts. Basically anything that results in lots of bulk to the stool. Glad you figured out what helps your bile! It's all about self experimentation. I may try whole wheat sourdough.
 

Nighteyes

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Have you tried whole wheat sourdough bread? That's easier on the intestines since the gluten are mostly gone. I only had mild digestive rumbling with that the first 2 days of introducing it. After those first few days I could digest it effortlessly. I am now trying out regular whole wheat to see if I can digest that. So far it does feel a little hard on the intestines, but maybe I'll adapt to it. We'll see.

One massive benefit I've experienced because of the whole wheat is that I now have perfect bowel movements. I used to be constipated when I was just eating white rice and meat. My poops are now soft, easily passed and a healthy brown color.
When I was eating barley or beans as my source of fiber, my stools became yellow/pale.
I intuitively felt this was a sign of a toxic liver/bile. My mood also became very bad quickly, my body felt toxic and eczema came back.
So far the whole wheat bread hasn't had these negative effects. I feel pretty good, no depression or toxic feelings. So I think this confirms my theory of insoluble fiber = good. Soluble fiber = bad. Whole wheat bread is mostly insoluble fiber, which doesn't feed gut bacteria which produce inflammatory metabolites like lithocholic acid which causes cholestasis and liver damage.
I get sensitive teeth pretty quickly from whole grains and brown rice. I think it would be important to keep calcium and zinc intake high when eating mainly whole grains for carbs. White bread has no such effect at all. But I Think you are right about it being good for clearing bile and staying regular.. there really is no one ideal food/diet. Always feels like finding the lesser evil
 

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