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Anti-Peat Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

GorillaHead

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He doesn't prove we don't need it. He sets out with an idea in mind and selectively takes compelling information to back up his point - it isn't a balanced arguement.

Help me understand how we metabolise copper without ceruloplasmin and why retinol binding protein is specifically made by the body and its relationship to zinc. Explain how we properly metabolise calcium and phosphorous in the absence of vitamin A?

Explain how a book condemning vitamin A as a poison can completely miss the necessity of cofactors k2 and vit D - the fundamental point that undermines his work.

Vitamin A, K and D must be in balance. Vitamins A and D in balance are key to a healthy mucosal barrier and immune system. Vitamin K2 is needed to properly utilise A and D.

They all work together to metabolise, shepherd and balance the minerals we take in.

A far more balanced conclusion would be that vitamin A is easy to imbalance due to a number of factors, perhaps with a modern diet lacking in k2 alongside (this is just an idea for the sake of example) modern dairy feed perhaps skewing the balance in favour of A over k2.

Also, far more likely, the widespread absence of sunlight on skin in people's lives in the modern day - this is absolutely going to create an imbalance between vit D and vit A which may in turn cause chronic issues down the line. Usage of sunscreen and overuse of soaps adds to this problem.

I'm not saying don't temporarily avoid vitamin A to see how you get on, I'm saying the conclusion that it's a poison is a dangerous and unhealthy position to take.

That's the problem - the guy that writes a balanced research book won't get wide exposure. Dogmatism and fear create a spectacle and can gain traction which can provide a sense of esteem or credibility to a writer merely by having their ideas talked about, no matter how imbalanced their perspective might be.

Do what feels right to you, but also be aware that vit D, K2 and a little magnesium might bring about a far healthier non restrictive non orthorexic balance.

I'm not averse to the idea we don't need huge amounts of vitamin A, but we certainly need some.
When i first took vitamin A. It quickly made me super dry then i i experimented around with other vitamins and i eventually got my skin to be super glowy. Dewy as they called it. I was like kinda sticky but my dandruff was completely gone for weeks and then after a bit the effect completely went away. And now nothing i seem to do is helping me get back to that effect
 

Eberhardt

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Apr 28, 2019
Messages
457
He doesn't prove we don't need it. He sets out with an idea in mind and selectively takes compelling information to back up his point - it isn't a balanced arguement.

Help me understand how we metabolise copper without ceruloplasmin and why retinol binding protein is specifically made by the body and its relationship to zinc. Explain how we properly metabolise calcium and phosphorous in the absence of vitamin A?

Explain how a book condemning vitamin A as a poison can completely miss the necessity of cofactors k2 and vit D - the fundamental point that undermines his work.

Vitamin A, K and D must be in balance. Vitamins A and D in balance are key to a healthy mucosal barrier and immune system. Vitamin K2 is needed to properly utilise A and D.

They all work together to metabolise, shepherd and balance the minerals we take in.

A far more balanced conclusion would be that vitamin A is easy to imbalance due to a number of factors, perhaps with a modern diet lacking in k2 alongside (this is just an idea for the sake of example) modern dairy feed perhaps skewing the balance in favour of A over k2.

Also, far more likely, the widespread absence of sunlight on skin in people's lives in the modern day - this is absolutely going to create an imbalance between vit D and vit A which may in turn cause chronic issues down the line. Usage of sunscreen and overuse of soaps adds to this problem.

I'm not saying don't temporarily avoid vitamin A to see how you get on, I'm saying the conclusion that it's a poison is a dangerous and unhealthy position to take.

That's the problem - the guy that writes a balanced research book won't get wide exposure. Dogmatism and fear create a spectacle and can gain traction which can provide a sense of esteem or credibility to a writer merely by having their ideas talked about, no matter how imbalanced their perspective might be.

Do what feels right to you, but also be aware that vit D, K2 and a little magnesium might bring about a far healthier non restrictive non orthorexic balance.

I'm not averse to the idea we don't need huge amounts of vitamin A, but we certainly need some.
Well, speaking for myself I tried doing seasonal and wholeyear both D K2 and Magnesium, several brands of good repute both tried topically and orally and it did shitall to my health. K2 only makes me sick, I habe higher bloodlevels of vitamin D now and no more sun then before. Magnesium had some alight benefits but my need for it dissapeared whrn going low A. Also somehow my nails and teeth got much stronger even if I eat like 10%of the calcium I used too (I would like that to be higher but thats how it is) . For copper I dont care since I never supplemented it.
 

Amazoniac

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- Interactions of fat-soluble vitamins in hypervitaminoses

"Experimental animals show severe derangements of many systems in hypervitaminosis A. Where tested, tocopherol administration has usually led to full or partial reversal."

"For example, chicks fed 1,000 × the required amount of vitamin A had a survival rate of only 25% compared to controls.[3] This manifestation of severe vitamin A toxicity was completely reversed when large amounts of tocopherol, again amounting to 1,000 × the requirement, were added simultaneously to the birds’ diet. Parallel to this, growth rate of chicks on excess vitamin A, which had fallen to 40% of that of controls, was almost normalized with tocopherol supplements."

"In general, large retinol stores seem especially vulnerable to degradation in the vitamin E-deficient state, while utilization of moderate hepatic retinol stores is little if any, affected by the high vitamin E intakes."

"[..]the interaction of vitamin E in hypervitaminosis A may be more complex than an antioxidant reaction involving unsaturated lipids of membranes. Aside from acting as antioxidants of unsaturated lipids, tocopherols are also thought to stabilize membranes through other mechanisms. Experiments with model systems involving monolayers of unsaturated phospholipids at air-water interfaces have led to the suggestion that tocopherol may facilitate molecular packing of phospholjpids and thus have a structural role in membrane stability.[11,17]"

"The question has been raised whether hypervitaminosis A may lead to vitamin E deficiency or deplete tissue tocopherol levels.[18] Such interaction could be expected if tocopherol were itself degraded in the process of protecting vitamin A from oxidative destruction. The similarity in hemolysis in vitro of erythrocytes in vitamin E deficiency and in hypervitaminosis A has stimulated inquiries regarding tocopherol levels in tissues in hypervitaminosis A.[18] For example, plasma tocopherol levels were examined in chicks fed 10^6 IU/kg diet of retinyl palmitate.[19] Plasma tocopherol concentrations were severely depressed to 12-25% of controls on marginal tocopherol intakes. Only when dietary tocopherol was raised to 60 IU/kg did plasma tocopherol concentration normalize in the presence of high intakes of vitamin A. These results corroborate earlier reports that graded amounts of dietary retinyl acetate from 50 to 5,000 mg/kg lowered plasma and hepatic tocopherol concentrations in rats.[18]"

"Similar conclusions were drawn from an experiment with a different approach, where rats received radioactive tocopherol while consuming a wide range of vitamin A supplements. Recovery of radioactivity in liver was depressed progressively as the intake of vitamin A increased from 500 to 75,000 IU/day.[16] Values of recovery of labeled hepatic tocopherol, as percent of controls, ranged from 63% for the lowest dose to 17% for the highest intake of vitamin A."

"In the studies cited so far, vitamin A was in excess either in the diet or at tissue levels. In most instances where large amounts of tocopherol were involved, the interaction was to the benefit of the organism, especially in hypervitaminosis A. In instances where excess tocopherol has been combined with physiological doses of vitamin A, not all the results have been beneficial."

"In attempts to find the proper balance between the two vitamins, it was apparent that utilization of moderate amounts of vitamin A for growth or hepatic storage could be improved with a change of the animal’s vitamin E status from deficient to adequate.[21,22] The effective dose for tocopherol was between 0.5 and 2.0 mg/day for the rat. With preformed vitamin A, additional supplementation with tocopherol was of no value but also had no adverse effects. b-Carotene as the source of vitamin A was, however, especially sensitive to vitamin E. Following improvement of b-carotene utilization with additions of tocopherol of from 0 to 2.0 mg/day, excess supplements of from 5 to 10 mg, corresponding to 5-10 × the requirement for young rats, were antagonistic to physiological amounts of b-carotene. However, reports to the contrary can also be found.[23]"

"Based on the present practice of certain morons to consume tocopherol far in excess of dietary recommendations, we extended studies reported in the 40s and 50s by feeding rats as much as 50 mg dl-Dio-tocopheryl acetate (aT) daily, or roughly 50 x the optimum of 1 mg."

"Similar to previous findings,[21,22] we saw a significant reduction in hepatic retinol from b-carotene supplementation with 10 mg aT/day in 28-day feeding studies (Table 2). When the tocopherol dose was raised to 50 mg/day, hepatic deposition of retinol was almost completely inhibited. At the same time, fecal excretion of unconverted carotene increased with excess dietary tocopherol, though amounts of b-carotene lost relative to controls were too small to account for the large differences seen in hepatic retinol deposits."

"By comparison, hepatic stores of retinol following feeding of preformed vitamin A as retinyl acetate were not affected by large supplements of tocopherol (Table 2). These results suggested that the inhibitory effect of excess tocopherol on b-carotene utilization was likely to occur at the intestinal site of b-carotene conversion to retinol, based on the assumption that b-carotene, once converted to retinol, was metabolized by mechanisms similar to those involved in utilization of dietary retinol."

1640989458439.png

"Conclusions drawn from [..] studies [in which b-carotene was given with or without tocopherol at the same time] are that high tissue levels of tocopherol
do not interfere with the activity of carotene dioxygenase or other mechanisms involved in the conversion process, but
that the presence of large amounts of tocopherol in the ingesta interferes with the accessibility of b-carotene to the enzyme. The nature of this inhibition is not understood at present. It could be a direct antioxidant action involving the oxidative steps in the conversion process. The interaction of pcarotene and tocopherol could also be of a physical nature, based on differences in b-carotene dispersion with different amounts of tocopherol at the site of mucosal uptake of b-carotene. Whatever the mechanism, it appears that b-carotene and tocopherol have to be present simultaneously during the absorption process for interactions leading to suppression of retinol synthesis from b-carotene by excess tocopherol to occur."

- β-Carotene and α-tocopherol are synergistic antioxidants
- Carotenoids Enhance Vitamin E Antioxidant Efficiency

- α-Tocopherol and Ascorbic Acid Decrease the Production of β-Apo-carotenals and Increase the Formation of Retinoids from β-Carotene in the Lung Tissues of Cigarette Smoke–Exposed Ferrets In Vitro

- β-Carotene autoxidation: oxygen copolymerization, non-vitamin A products, and immunological activity

- Aldehydes release zinc from proteins. A pathway from oxidative stress/lipid peroxidation to cellular functions of zinc (from Horrendo)

- Postprandial plasma retinyl ester response is greater in older subjects compared with younger subjects. Evidence for delayed plasma clearance of intestinal lipoproteins
- Comparison of the Postprandial Plasma Vitamin A Response in Young and Older Adults
 

maillol

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Oct 28, 2019
Messages
274
I suspect Vitamin A may cause Addison's disease (lack of cortisol).

Retinoic Acid as a Novel Medical Therapy for Cushing’s Disease in Dogs

Retinoic acid and PPAR-γ ligands synergistically inhibit ACTH secretion and proliferation in murine corticotroph tumor cells​


Rapid Action of Retinoic Acid on the Hypothalamic Pituitary Adrenal Axis​

Following this line of thinking I've been having good results from supplementing with pantothenic acid to support cortisol production.

This is an interesting thread on pantothenic acid
 

Amazoniac

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Not Uganda
This may be a concern for someone that has difficulty metabolizing poison A, with an injured mucosal lining and taking venom D in excess.

- Vitamin A in Adrenal Hormone and Mucopolysaccharide Biosynthesis (Jorge Lobo)

"Already in 1953,[6,7] H. B. Fell had shown that the profound effect of vitamin A on [a] type of mucopolysaccharide, that of bone and cartilage, is direct and not mediated through a hormone. We found the most promising tissue for in vitro synthesis of MPS (mucopolysaccharide) to be the mucosa of colon. Investigating the uptake of labeled sulfate into MPS, we observed,[8] both in colon segments and homogenates, a depression of MPS synthesis in vitamin A deficiency, restorable specifically by vitamin A added to the medium (Table IIIIIII)."

"[..]by the use of substrates in MPS synthesis which were closer to the final product, an analysis could be made of the particular reaction which would be susceptible to vitamin A deficiency. None was found, until incubations were attempted with S35-labeled phosphoadenosine phosphosulfate (PAPS, "active sulfate") instead of with sulfate (see Figure 1). It could be shown[12] that, whereas vitamin A deficiency severely lowered sulfate incorporation into MPS from free sulfate, no such depression was obtained with the use of PAPS. As shown in Table IIIIIIIIIII, vitamin A deficiency causes lowered PAPS synthesis, a reaction which is an essential step in the formation of sulfated MPS. The lesion was again restorable to normal with added vitamin A. It seems, therefore, that the capacity of vitamin A to affect MPS synthesis lies in its function in the activation reactions of sulfate."

"It is possible, albeit somewhat speculative, to generalize from these observations. As Fell has shown, excess vitamin A causes a dissolution of the MPS part of cartilage matrix, presumably by a breakage of the MPS-protein bound in cartilage. On the other hand, vitamin A stimulates the formation of MPS of mucus. We are led to the hypothesis that the activation of sulfate is the rate limiting step in MPS synthesis. Sufficient vitamin A leads to a maximum rate of MPS synthesis. Large amounts of MPS, in some unexplained way, cause dissolution of the MPS-protein bound in cartilage and the increased formation of MPS bound in mucus. The concentration of MPS itself may be the regulatory factor determining whether it is to be bound in cartilage or in mucus."



"In the broader aspects of the effect of vitamin A or the lack of it on the well being of the animal, it was interesting to find exogenous progesterone an aid in alleviating some of time effects of a vitamin A deficiency on reproduction in the rabbit. Table I shows the results of our experiments.[1] It can be noted that while the liver and plasma vitamin A values are extremely low, reproduction was greatly improved by the daily injection of 8 mg. of progesterone. In the progesterone treated animals there were more living fetuses and even those which died imad lived longer than those of the untreated females."

"Table II shows the result of further work we have done in this area. When rats were placed on a diet of sucrose and distilled water for the duration of pregnancy, time average number of living young was reduced to 1.2.[2,3] This detrimental effect of the severely restricted diet was mostly alleviated by daily injections of 5 mg. of progesterone or 4-6 IU. of prolactin.[4]"​
 

sugarbabe

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Truth is you just cant go wrong with red meat and pure starch and it can be done long term except for lack of minimal calcium over time but in the end there is a reason we store so much of it in our bones. I say if a diet is providing so much relief for autoimmune and the fact that it is able to facilitate anabolism that is acceptable for bodybuilding, then its hard to argue with results.

The success from this type of diet also lays out the question of sugar and fructose in particular. We all here on this forum generally share the same idea of dietary sugar being good and some say even necessary, and fructose is especially seen in a good light. And yet this beef and rice has no simple sugar sources at all.

The fact of the matter is, the body has a requirement for glucose. There is no requirement for fructose, or galactose(milk sugar). Fructose is forced to be processed by the liver, meaning a poorly functioning liver can be excerbated by the high intake of sugar that is recommended here(and naturally high fructose). Perhaps non-irritating starch as the sole source of sugar(glucose) could provide relief for some here getting health problems and weight problems as well from high intake of fructose while still providing the preferred fuel which is glucose that helps healing take place.

EDIT: I thought about this sometime ago when tracking food, when I ate simple sugars for carbohydrates only. If I had 400g sugars for carbohydrates for a day, if we are to assume the ratio of glucose to fructose is similar to plain table sugar(50:50) for most fruits, cutting my carb intake in half, I really only yield 200g glucose which can be used by every cell, while the other 200g are fructose that can only be processed by the liver. You can see how with poor or mediocre liver function, fructose can become a problem that makes your health worse.

In a time before discovering Peat principles, starch was my main sources of carbohydrates, and I was doing a lot better off that way
Resurrecting this post because I think it's important. I was doing a search on galactose because I had completely forgotten that it can be a problem for some people. I was going through all of Garrett Smith's live streams on #loveyourliver and he has mentioned briefly that fructose is harmful for the liver and I would have dismissed it in the past 10 yrs of following Peat's work, but because of my continuing health challenges I am forced to reconcile whether sugar is beneficial or not. I don't think a moderate amount of sugars are harmful and the research does show this, but when put in the perspective of the last 10 yrs of my life, I didn't consume moderate levels. I was putting 1/4 cup of sugar in my coffee at one point. And adding 2 TBS to milk when I was drinking a lot of milk, When I ate greek yogurt I was adding at least 1/4 cup of sugar because I wasn't consuming much starch I felt like I had to balance the protein content. Then on top of that I consumed at least one soda a day. And then I would eat 4 ounces of haagen dazs which is half sugar half fat. I am so glad I stopped doing all of that, but I am still consuming liquid sugar throughout the day in the form of grape juice. Which has even more fructose than orange juice and soda.

My lipid panel was the worst it has ever been last yr when I was consuming a lot of added sugars (along with some junk foods). I am consuming far less junk food and less added sugar so we will see how this next lipid panel is, but I am definitely ready to be more kind to my liver. Garrett said cholesterol is the basis for bile. Higher cholesterol = trying to make more bile. Fatty liver is actually stored cholesterol. Peat would say increase thyroid to decrease cholesterol levels, turn into steroid hormones. But that isn't really working out for a lot of people who already have fatty liver. To boost steroid hormone production you need good glycogen otherwise you feel shaky and you just get a massive increase in pulse. I absolutely DO NOT need that and refuse to try. My health went in the crapper after over a yr on NDT and I experienced yrs of suffering because of it. It is not a cure all in my opinion. I am able to get to 98.6 and 85 pulse which means my thyroid is functioning decently when given enough glycogen. But does fructose do that? Not so sure it's good at it. Most people who go high sugar need to consistently feed high sugar. People who eat regular solid meals seem to be able to go longer between meals without crashing which suggests better glucose control. I'd rather have even blood sugar than having to sip something sugary all day and wake up at night as well needing sugar (like I did for yrs thank god I eat way more starch now and don't wake up to manage my blood sugar).

All that to say I'm going to trial starch over sugar.
 

youngsinatra

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Resurrecting this post because I think it's important. I was doing a search on galactose because I had completely forgotten that it can be a problem for some people. I was going through all of Garrett Smith's live streams on #loveyourliver and he has mentioned briefly that fructose is harmful for the liver and I would have dismissed it in the past 10 yrs of following Peat's work, but because of my continuing health challenges I am forced to reconcile whether sugar is beneficial or not. I don't think a moderate amount of sugars are harmful and the research does show this, but when put in the perspective of the last 10 yrs of my life, I didn't consume moderate levels. I was putting 1/4 cup of sugar in my coffee at one point. And adding 2 TBS to milk when I was drinking a lot of milk, When I ate greek yogurt I was adding at least 1/4 cup of sugar because I wasn't consuming much starch I felt like I had to balance the protein content. Then on top of that I consumed at least one soda a day. And then I would eat 4 ounces of haagen dazs which is half sugar half fat. I am so glad I stopped doing all of that, but I am still consuming liquid sugar throughout the day in the form of grape juice. Which has even more fructose than orange juice and soda.

My lipid panel was the worst it has ever been last yr when I was consuming a lot of added sugars (along with some junk foods). I am consuming far less junk food and less added sugar so we will see how this next lipid panel is, but I am definitely ready to be more kind to my liver. Garrett said cholesterol is the basis for bile. Higher cholesterol = trying to make more bile. Fatty liver is actually stored cholesterol. Peat would say increase thyroid to decrease cholesterol levels, turn into steroid hormones. But that isn't really working out for a lot of people who already have fatty liver. To boost steroid hormone production you need good glycogen otherwise you feel shaky and you just get a massive increase in pulse. I absolutely DO NOT need that and refuse to try. My health went in the crapper after over a yr on NDT and I experienced yrs of suffering because of it. It is not a cure all in my opinion. I am able to get to 98.6 and 85 pulse which means my thyroid is functioning decently when given enough glycogen. But does fructose do that? Not so sure it's good at it. Most people who go high sugar need to consistently feed high sugar. People who eat regular solid meals seem to be able to go longer between meals without crashing which suggests better glucose control. I'd rather have even blood sugar than having to sip something sugary all day and wake up at night as well needing sugar (like I did for yrs thank god I eat way more starch now and don't wake up to manage my blood sugar).

All that to say I'm going to trial starch over sugar.
Matches my experience too.
 

Sitaruîm

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Jun 14, 2020
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200
Resurrecting this post because I think it's important. I was doing a search on galactose because I had completely forgotten that it can be a problem for some people. I was going through all of Garrett Smith's live streams on #loveyourliver and he has mentioned briefly that fructose is harmful for the liver and I would have dismissed it in the past 10 yrs of following Peat's work, but because of my continuing health challenges I am forced to reconcile whether sugar is beneficial or not. I don't think a moderate amount of sugars are harmful and the research does show this, but when put in the perspective of the last 10 yrs of my life, I didn't consume moderate levels. I was putting 1/4 cup of sugar in my coffee at one point. And adding 2 TBS to milk when I was drinking a lot of milk, When I ate greek yogurt I was adding at least 1/4 cup of sugar because I wasn't consuming much starch I felt like I had to balance the protein content. Then on top of that I consumed at least one soda a day. And then I would eat 4 ounces of haagen dazs which is half sugar half fat. I am so glad I stopped doing all of that, but I am still consuming liquid sugar throughout the day in the form of grape juice. Which has even more fructose than orange juice and soda.

My lipid panel was the worst it has ever been last yr when I was consuming a lot of added sugars (along with some junk foods). I am consuming far less junk food and less added sugar so we will see how this next lipid panel is, but I am definitely ready to be more kind to my liver. Garrett said cholesterol is the basis for bile. Higher cholesterol = trying to make more bile. Fatty liver is actually stored cholesterol. Peat would say increase thyroid to decrease cholesterol levels, turn into steroid hormones. But that isn't really working out for a lot of people who already have fatty liver. To boost steroid hormone production you need good glycogen otherwise you feel shaky and you just get a massive increase in pulse. I absolutely DO NOT need that and refuse to try. My health went in the crapper after over a yr on NDT and I experienced yrs of suffering because of it. It is not a cure all in my opinion. I am able to get to 98.6 and 85 pulse which means my thyroid is functioning decently when given enough glycogen. But does fructose do that? Not so sure it's good at it. Most people who go high sugar need to consistently feed high sugar. People who eat regular solid meals seem to be able to go longer between meals without crashing which suggests better glucose control. I'd rather have even blood sugar than having to sip something sugary all day and wake up at night as well needing sugar (like I did for yrs thank god I eat way more starch now and don't wake up to manage my blood sugar).

All that to say I'm going to trial starch over sugar.
Healthy humans eat starch imo. I only add fructose to taste (sucrose and honey) to my porridge and coffee. To this I have to add the fructose from fruit and I don't think I ever reach 50g of fructose in a day.
 

LLight

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interesting study about extreme longevity of bats and mole rats, they have almost undetectable level of vit D (Given that vitamin D can only be synthesized in the presence of sunlight or acquired by eating a high animal fat diet)

Interesting.

By the way, I read that mole rats don't drink water.

I wonder if there cannot be a link with vitamin D via the Klotho gene (Klotho is downregulated by "dehydration" and it is upregulated by vitamin D).
 

sugarbabe

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Healthy humans eat starch imo. I only add fructose to taste (sucrose and honey) to my porridge and coffee. To this I have to add the fructose from fruit and I don't think I ever reach 50g of fructose in a day.
Yeah I think so too. When I was at my worst underweight, anxious, waking up every two hours with adrenaline, IBS I sometimes got well over 50 grams of fructose!!
 

Apollo

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Apr 15, 2015
Messages
666
Interesting.

By the way, I read that mole rats don't drink water.

I wonder if there cannot be a link with vitamin D via the Klotho gene (Klotho is downregulated by "dehydration" and it is upregulated by vitamin D).
Low P upregulates the expression of Klotho and enhances autophagy.
Long-term intake of high P is associated with decreased renal expression of Klotho, low circulating Klotho, and increased PTH. A comparative longevity analysis has revealed existence of a significant inverse correlation between plasma P and lifespan in different mammals. Interestingly plasma P levels of the Naked Mole Rat is half that of mice and rats .
 

LLight

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May 30, 2018
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Low P upregulates the expression of Klotho and enhances autophagy.
Long-term intake of high P is associated with decreased renal expression of Klotho, low circulating Klotho, and increased PTH. A comparative longevity analysis has revealed existence of a significant inverse correlation between plasma P and lifespan in different mammals. Interestingly plasma P levels of the Naked Mole Rat is half that of mice and rats .
P stands for proteins?
Thanks
 

redsun

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Dec 17, 2018
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Resurrecting this post because I think it's important. I was doing a search on galactose because I had completely forgotten that it can be a problem for some people. I was going through all of Garrett Smith's live streams on #loveyourliver and he has mentioned briefly that fructose is harmful for the liver and I would have dismissed it in the past 10 yrs of following Peat's work, but because of my continuing health challenges I am forced to reconcile whether sugar is beneficial or not. I don't think a moderate amount of sugars are harmful and the research does show this, but when put in the perspective of the last 10 yrs of my life, I didn't consume moderate levels. I was putting 1/4 cup of sugar in my coffee at one point. And adding 2 TBS to milk when I was drinking a lot of milk, When I ate greek yogurt I was adding at least 1/4 cup of sugar because I wasn't consuming much starch I felt like I had to balance the protein content. Then on top of that I consumed at least one soda a day. And then I would eat 4 ounces of haagen dazs which is half sugar half fat. I am so glad I stopped doing all of that, but I am still consuming liquid sugar throughout the day in the form of grape juice. Which has even more fructose than orange juice and soda.

My lipid panel was the worst it has ever been last yr when I was consuming a lot of added sugars (along with some junk foods). I am consuming far less junk food and less added sugar so we will see how this next lipid panel is, but I am definitely ready to be more kind to my liver. Garrett said cholesterol is the basis for bile. Higher cholesterol = trying to make more bile. Fatty liver is actually stored cholesterol. Peat would say increase thyroid to decrease cholesterol levels, turn into steroid hormones. But that isn't really working out for a lot of people who already have fatty liver. To boost steroid hormone production you need good glycogen otherwise you feel shaky and you just get a massive increase in pulse. I absolutely DO NOT need that and refuse to try. My health went in the crapper after over a yr on NDT and I experienced yrs of suffering because of it. It is not a cure all in my opinion. I am able to get to 98.6 and 85 pulse which means my thyroid is functioning decently when given enough glycogen. But does fructose do that? Not so sure it's good at it. Most people who go high sugar need to consistently feed high sugar. People who eat regular solid meals seem to be able to go longer between meals without crashing which suggests better glucose control. I'd rather have even blood sugar than having to sip something sugary all day and wake up at night as well needing sugar (like I did for yrs thank god I eat way more starch now and don't wake up to manage my blood sugar).

All that to say I'm going to trial starch over sugar.

I still consume around 70-80g of fructose daily but compared to my starch intake it is not my major source of carbs. And considering this is 80g of fructose throughout the day it is quite easy for the liver to use it all properly. Of course, how much fructose is acceptable will be based on gender, weight, activity level so whats ideal for me may not be for everyone.
 

sugarbabe

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I still consume around 70-80g of fructose daily but compared to my starch intake it is not my major source of carbs. And considering this is 80g of fructose throughout the day it is quite easy for the liver to use it all properly. Of course, how much fructose is acceptable will be based on gender, weight, activity level so whats ideal for me may not be for everyone.
Oh wow that's quite a lot, I only ever hit that amount from a lot of cane sugar. I think what the liver can handle is greatly tied to activity level, size and gender as well. The more sedentary the less sugar we use and it just causes problems like the feeling like you are blowing off a bunch of CO2 for no reason and that causes anxiety.. I believe it was gboldeuv who said that.
 

KurtisL

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Resurrecting this post because I think it's important. I was doing a search on galactose because I had completely forgotten that it can be a problem for some people. I was going through all of Garrett Smith's live streams on #loveyourliver and he has mentioned briefly that fructose is harmful for the liver and I would have dismissed it in the past 10 yrs of following Peat's work, but because of my continuing health challenges I am forced to reconcile whether sugar is beneficial or not. I don't think a moderate amount of sugars are harmful and the research does show this, but when put in the perspective of the last 10 yrs of my life, I didn't consume moderate levels. I was putting 1/4 cup of sugar in my coffee at one point. And adding 2 TBS to milk when I was drinking a lot of milk, When I ate greek yogurt I was adding at least 1/4 cup of sugar because I wasn't consuming much starch I felt like I had to balance the protein content. Then on top of that I consumed at least one soda a day. And then I would eat 4 ounces of haagen dazs which is half sugar half fat. I am so glad I stopped doing all of that, but I am still consuming liquid sugar throughout the day in the form of grape juice. Which has even more fructose than orange juice and soda.

My lipid panel was the worst it has ever been last yr when I was consuming a lot of added sugars (along with some junk foods). I am consuming far less junk food and less added sugar so we will see how this next lipid panel is, but I am definitely ready to be more kind to my liver. Garrett said cholesterol is the basis for bile. Higher cholesterol = trying to make more bile. Fatty liver is actually stored cholesterol. Peat would say increase thyroid to decrease cholesterol levels, turn into steroid hormones. But that isn't really working out for a lot of people who already have fatty liver. To boost steroid hormone production you need good glycogen otherwise you feel shaky and you just get a massive increase in pulse. I absolutely DO NOT need that and refuse to try. My health went in the crapper after over a yr on NDT and I experienced yrs of suffering because of it. It is not a cure all in my opinion. I am able to get to 98.6 and 85 pulse which means my thyroid is functioning decently when given enough glycogen. But does fructose do that? Not so sure it's good at it. Most people who go high sugar need to consistently feed high sugar. People who eat regular solid meals seem to be able to go longer between meals without crashing which suggests better glucose control. I'd rather have even blood sugar than having to sip something sugary all day and wake up at night as well needing sugar (like I did for yrs thank god I eat way more starch now and don't wake up to manage my blood sugar).

All that to say I'm going to trial starch over sugar.
Funny I just dropped sugar a couple days ago after coming to the same point in my life.
My blood tests are all normal except for high bilirubin. My doc said to wait 3 months and test again as I've had high bilirubin just about my entire life... and my entire life I've 1) eaten a lot of vitamin A 2) eaten A LOT of sugar.
What I've noticed so far is far more satiety when it comes to meals, but not much else. I'm only 3 days in, 3 months without sugar should be enough time to determine whether or not it's a factor for me, but I doubt I'll ever go back to eating a lot of sugar regardless.
 

sugarbabe

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Funny I just dropped sugar a couple days ago after coming to the same point in my life.
My blood tests are all normal except for high bilirubin. My doc said to wait 3 months and test again as I've had high bilirubin just about my entire life... and my entire life I've 1) eaten a lot of vitamin A 2) eaten A LOT of sugar.
What I've noticed so far is far more satiety when it comes to meals, but not much else. I'm only 3 days in, 3 months without sugar should be enough time to determine whether or not it's a factor for me, but I doubt I'll ever go back to eating a lot of sugar regardless.
What symptoms do you have from the high bilirubin? Have you ever had your serum bile acids tested? Supposedly it should be zero and if there are bile acids in the blood it's because of cholestasis. Did you eliminate fruit as well? I'm having trouble coming to terms with the fruit sugar lol. It's like liquid candy. I think I can still have some especially in the morning when glycogen is very low and cortisol is high. I have found easing into morning insulin responses the best way to deal with the crash afterwards. Unfortunately certain starches are very good at shooting out lots of insulin (but so are some proteins) so that needs to be considered. When my cortisol was highest from undereating, highly refined cereal was the worst, white rice pretty bad as well, but that just goes to show how bad my liver was. Starches should not cause such a large adrenaline response with good glucose control.
 
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Eberhardt

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Apr 28, 2019
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What symptoms do you have from the high bilirubin? Have you ever had your serum bile acids tested? Supposedly it should be zero and it there are bile acids in the blood it's because of cholestasis. Did you eliminate fruit as well? I'm having trouble coming to terms with the fruit sugar lol. It's like liquid candy. I think I can still have some especially in the morning when glycogen is very low and cortisol is high. I have found easing into morning insulin responses the best way to deal with the crash afterwards. Unfortunately certain starches are very good at shooting out lots of insulin (but so are some proteins) so that needs to be considered. When my cortisol was highest from undereating, highly refined cereal was the worst, white rice pretty bad as well, but that just goes to show how bad my liver was. Starches should not cause such a large adrenaline response with good glucose control.
and to give what almost sounds as a plugin - I would recomend trying som lactoferrin to help with that choleostasis. From bad experience Id say its a very good idea indeed to buy it directly from Garrett Smith since that one is not denaturated and not made from whey but milk. So its organic as well - to me that made a HUGE difference (thats why "plugin warning")
 

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