Anti-Peat Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

tim333

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
202
Thanks tim333. I have been vegan for many years and I have eaten high carotene foods daily the whole time. My vitamin A levels are at the bottom of the reference range but beta carotene levels way out of reference level, sky high. What I suspect is that some people can't convert carotene to vitamin A efficiently and this causes all adverse reactions. Like in this case. RACGP - A young woman with yellow hands and secondary amenorrhoea

If your serum retinol is low it doesn't necessarily mean your liver stores are low. In zinc deficiency for example you can have low serum retinol and high liver stores.
 
Last edited:

artist

Member
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
229
It would be interesting if someone took on this diet and then individually added a pure source of salicylate like aspirin to see if that was their problem. Same with ie. MSM for sulfur, another for oxalates (not as familiar with this sensitivity). As someone with major salicylate problems it’s hard not to notice how this diet is basicaly a zero-salicylate diet. And other than beans it’s really low thiol/sulfur too.
 

Korven

Member
Joined
May 4, 2019
Messages
444
It would be interesting if someone took on this diet and then individually added a pure source of salicylate like aspirin to see if that was their problem. Same with ie. MSM for sulfur, another for oxalates (not as familiar with this sensitivity). As someone with major salicylate problems it’s hard not to notice how this diet is basicaly a zero-salicylate diet. And other than beans it’s really low thiol/sulfur too.

+1

So many confounding factors. Hard to say if it's only the low VA that helped Grant when he also cut out dairy, eggs, fructose, salicylates, nightshades, most oxalates, etc.
 

artist

Member
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
229
+1

So many confounding factors. Hard to say if it's only the low VA that helped Grant when he also cut out dairy, eggs, fructose, salicylates, nightshades, most oxalates, etc.
For sure. It’s a problem with elimination diets in general I think because there are so many compounds one could be struggling to digest/detox. When I did a low sulfur diet myself I think in hindsight I inadvertently cut salicylates and that was the actual main source of help. But elimination diets are so useful and underrated. It’s good to have a familiarity with these common intolerances and then start to really trial things 3-4 weeks at a time with them in mind. I’ve been doing just that and food journaling much more rigorously in the past month and a half and I feel like I am learning so much more quickly and with much more certitude than before. I would advise anyone drawn to a diet like Grant’s to food journal meticulously, include pics you find relevant (skin? Swelling? Dark circles?). Be detailed day-to-day but also include broader reflections.

- histamine
- salicylates
- oxalates
- thiols/sulfur
- nightshades
- eggs
- casein vs lactose vs milk allergy issues (I am incredibly sensitive to casein despite not being lactose intolerant nor allergic)
- fructose
- fodmaps
- vitamin A
- meat

All worth being aware of but there could be other patterns. Food combinations that don’t work. Spices. Acidity. Salt/mineral levels. Protein levels. Water intake. If you’re one of those people who can have their mood/energy/pain levels/etc ruined by a meal (I know it’s a lot of us) then you owe it to yourself to start properly investigating with a strategy, it’s a quality of life game changer.
 

somuch4food

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
1,236
For sure. It’s a problem with elimination diets in general I think because there are so many compounds one could be struggling to digest/detox. When I did a low sulfur diet myself I think in hindsight I inadvertently cut salicylates and that was the actual main source of help. But elimination diets are so useful and underrated. It’s good to have a familiarity with these common intolerances and then start to really trial things 3-4 weeks at a time with them in mind. I’ve been doing just that and food journaling much more rigorously in the past month and a half and I feel like I am learning so much more quickly and with much more certitude than before. I would advise anyone drawn to a diet like Grant’s to food journal meticulously, include pics you find relevant (skin? Swelling? Dark circles?). Be detailed day-to-day but also include broader reflections.

- histamine
- salicylates
- oxalates
- thiols/sulfur
- nightshades
- eggs
- casein vs lactose vs milk allergy issues (I am incredibly sensitive to casein despite not being lactose intolerant nor allergic)
- fructose
- fodmaps
- vitamin A
- meat

All worth being aware of but there could be other patterns. Food combinations that don’t work. Spices. Acidity. Salt/mineral levels. Protein levels. Water intake. If you’re one of those people who can have their mood/energy/pain levels/etc ruined by a meal (I know it’s a lot of us) then you owe it to yourself to start properly investigating with a strategy, it’s a quality of life game changer.
I agree. Vitamin A carotenoids are a thing for me. Orange carrots give me night sweats but other colors are fine.

I've also figured out I have multiple sensitivities from those you listed.
 

Sani

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2021
Messages
10
Thanks Peatful, that was interesting video. I'm gonna try upping my retinol intake from real foods and drop my carotene intake to almost zero. I react negatively to vitamin A and D supplements, but no reactions to high retinol foods and taking sun. Vitamin A supplements gives me pressure in head feeling and irritated eyes the same day I take them and from vitamin D supplements I get pressure in head and jaws and jittery feeling.
 

Peatful

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
866
Thanks Peatful, that was interesting video. I'm gonna try upping my retinol intake from real foods and drop my carotene intake to almost zero. I react negatively to vitamin A and D supplements, but no reactions to high retinol foods and taking sun. Vitamin A supplements gives me pressure in head feeling and irritated eyes the same day I take them and from vitamin D supplements I get pressure in head and jaws and jittery feeling.
Glad you found it relevant and helpful.
Thx for letting me know.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Messages
1,736
Wich source do you get get it from and ruin your mood?
It's mostly supplemental form that consistently gives me bad mood, but even liver, if eaten every day( say 50 grams a day, which would be about 8000 iu of retinol) does that too, although if I eat 50 grams of it on one day and don't eat any for a few days, it doesn't seem to affect my mood( at least I can't think of any situation where it did).
 

ursidae

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
833
I have linked to an explanation of it above. Yes, total stores. No, if you are consuming vitamin A then you are replenishing stores at the same time as depleting them.
Do you think getting around 6000-8000 iu of vitamin A per week ( from butter and cheese) from ages 10-18 would lead to the storage capacity of the liver being exceeded leading to the sudden development of a very strong intolerance to dairy and dairy fat? If the person in question was hypothyroid due to iodine deficiency and an inadequate environment. And do you think if your TSH was lower than 1.9 you’d be handling it much better? my last TSH test was 1.99 and I’m not healthy
 

maillol

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
227
I feel like their logic is backwards. If retinol and t4 share the same transport protein then it seems to me that an excess of retinol would cause hypothyroidism. Retinol taking up all the seats on the bus.

I've been experimenting with a low vitamin A diet for the past month and I am feeling warmer than I have in a long time. I will post a proper update after 2 months.
 

Sefton10

Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2019
Messages
510
I've been experimenting with a low vitamin A diet for the past month and I am feeling warmer than I have in a long time. I will post a proper update after 2 months.
In lowering Vit A, what else have you cut out? There's lots of potential to conflate the benefits of less Vit A with lots of other stuff it inevitably leads to cutting out.
 

maillol

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
227
In lowering Vit A, what else have you cut out? There's lots of potential to conflate the benefits of less Vit A with lots of other stuff it inevitably leads to cutting out.
I agree. In cutting out Vitamin A you cut out a lot, including dairy and most fats. I will cover this when I update properly but I notice a significant temperature drop when I eat sweet potatoes, carrots, butter or liver. These things don't have much in common apart from vitamin A.
 

Mr.Bollox

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
559
Interestingly, vitamin A is one of the most effective things for my bloating. I still feel it ruins my mood though.

I agree. In cutting out Vitamin A you cut out a lot, including dairy and most fats. I will cover this when I update properly but I notice a significant temperature drop when I eat sweet potatoes, carrots, butter or liver. These things don't have much in common apart from vitamin A.
what about from whole milk? and does this mean ground beef is better than liver, or does beef also have the anti thyroid issues due to its tryptophan and methionine. do you stick to milk only or what shouldbe used for protein.. cheese and yogurts have the fermentation/lactic acid problem in them too...
 

reaching

Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2020
Messages
122
I agree. In cutting out Vitamin A you cut out a lot, including dairy and most fats. I will cover this when I update properly but I notice a significant temperature drop when I eat sweet potatoes, carrots, butter or liver. These things don't have much in common apart from vitamin A.

Is this when you eat them alone?
Like how do you feel with carrots and coconut oil or liver cooked in coconut oil?
I've noticed those to be warming but maybe its just the salt and coconut oil
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
S Nih Peer Review Percentile Scores Are Poorly Predictive Of Grant Productivity Articles & Scientific Studies 0
K Comprehensive Hair loss theory from Tressless - would love to hear your thoughts Hair & Nails 16
P Study: Vitamin A theory of vaccine injury Scientific Studies 26
Hans PFS: 3a and 3b-HSD theory Scientific Studies 62
Brandin Poll: hopefully disproving my mom in her theory that This forum is a bunch of Nazis... Polls 63
RealNeat Zach Bush MD has COVID/ Viruses/ Germ Theory figured out. Viruses, Parasites, Fungus, Vaccines 19
K Theory: The Covid-Vaccine works, but not for what you think Political Talk, Alternative World Theories 44
johnwester130 theory - they created COVID because we are at peak human consciousness Political Talk, Alternative World Theories 10
GorillaHead Proposed Theory: Dandruff Is A Skin Biome Imbalance. Ways To Address Proposed Symptoms, Causes 75
johnwester130 Malassezia Turn Sebum Into PUFA - Is This Theory True? Hair & Nails 5
jamies33 Does Believing In The Concept Of Karma Negate Belief In The Multiverse Theory? Meditation, Mindfullness, Religion, Spirituality 2
ecstatichamster The Germ Theory Is Wrong Viruses, Parasites, Fungus, Vaccines 3
J Toilet Bowl Urine - Hydration Theory - Absolute BS! Vitamin D Deficiency - Kidney Disease? Health 8
F Covid-19 New Theory Emerges Viruses, Parasites, Fungus, Vaccines 6
L Another Hairloss Theory - Skin Thickness Hair & Nails 0
S.Seneff The Energy Maintenance Theory Of Aging: Maintaining Energy Metabolism To Allow Longevity Scientific Studies 1
haidut Luca Turin's Quantum Theory Of Smell Scientific Studies 0
johnwester130 Presenting A New Theory For Baldness - Gut Bacteria Hair & Nails 37
S Polyvagal Theory And Pattern Hair Loss Hair & Nails 11
B New Theory On Hairloss From Vitamin K2 MK4 Hair & Nails 17
jamies33 Theory: PUFA Preferentially Stored Vs Burned Is Genetic (or At Least Can Differ Between People) Polyunsaturated Fats, Seed Oils 1
ecstatichamster Dr. Peat’s Theory About Brands Of Milk Diet 9
N Salt For Mold Toxicity Theory Miscellaneous Health Discussions 4
ScurveDream Theory: Older People More Likely To Die Because Of Serotonin/estrogen/hormonal Issues? Metabolism 4
Viiiiyu Water Confusion And My Cute Little Theory ( ̄┰ ̄*) Diet 1
K Theory: Loose Stool Is Body Shedding Water Digestion, Gut Flora 2
GorillaHead New Theory On Hairloss By Me Health 15
Lokzo How Can I Downregulate Glucocorticoid Receptors (PSSD Theory)? Hormones 13
PurpleHeart Opinions On My Theory About Male Pattern Baldness Ask For Help or Advice 24
T A New Peaty Theory On Varicocele - Low Grade Intestinal Infection. Need Suggestions Digestion, Gut Flora 25
A Theory: Fasting Beneficial Because It Gives Your Body A Break From Toxins, Chemicals Discussing Dietary Models 3
sugarbabe Dismantling The Virus Theory Viruses, Parasites, Fungus, Vaccines 44
Dessert_All_Day Brains, Baldness & A Hierarchy Of Treatment (My New Theory) Danny Roddy 0
A Theory: Sugar Is A Metabolic 'activator', Works Well If Body Has Enough Nutrients Ray Peat Topics 65
K High Estrogen And Raging Libido Theory Sexuality 34
A Dr. Berg's Theory On Diabetes Blood Sugar 21
P The Gorilla Theory Of Ketogenic Advocators Is Debunked Articles & Scientific Studies 22
E Ammonia/Kidney Damage From Mercury Theory Of Autism Health 9
Tarmander Vitamin D Theory D 28
L Is It Time For A Stress Theory Of Disease? Science 0
KalosKaiAgathos My Theory Of Stress - Which Is A Response To Peat's Critique Of Hormesis Stress 23
haidut Morphostasis Theory Of Immunity Confirmed - Body Treats Heart Attack Like Viral Infection Scientific Studies 7
Jon Potassium:Sodium Ratios. My Experience And Theory Minerals 47
haidut The 'omnigenic' Theory Confirmed Again, Genomic Medicine Likely Useless Scientific Studies 1
T GAPING Holes In Evolutionary Theory Leave Scientists Baffled (and Darwin Rolling In His Grave) 2018 Articles & Scientific Studies 3
T Alleged Cure For Cancer, Cancer Is A False Placenta Theory Cancer 7
C Theory - Dietary Fat Induces Starvation Metabolism And Biological Failure? Discussing Dietary Models 31
Mito DNA Methylation-based Biomarkers And The Epigenetic Clock Theory Of Ageing Articles & Scientific Studies 2
Inaut How Did The Public Come To Believe The Low Serotonin Theory Of Depression By Robert Whitaker Miscellaneous Health Discussions 22
xetawaves Theory Hair & Nails 15

Similar threads

Top