Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

Brother John

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Yes.

Dare I say, miraculous.

The body is incredibly regenerative when put in the right conditions. Unless someone is past the point of no return it seems like most can be turned around and get heading in the right direction.
Charlie, I am really glad that diet works so well for you!
Thanks,
Brother John
 

tankasnowgod

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Thanks for sending that. I briefly checked it out... Brother John

Another thought of a possible diet that *could* work is The Milk Diet, as used by Charles Sanford Potter and Bernarr MacFadden. J.C. Crews of the Mayo clinic in the 20's also wrote very favorably of the Milk Diet. It was used for very serious diseases in the early 20th century, worked very effectively. It was used to treat rheumatism, so maybe other auto-immune diseases would also respond. This is more speculation on my part, however.
 

Brother John

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Another thought of a possible diet that *could* work is The Milk Diet, as used by Charles Sanford Potter and Bernarr MacFadden. J.C. Crews of the Mayo clinic in the 20's also wrote very favorably of the Milk Diet. It was used for very serious diseases in the early 20th century, worked very effectively. It was used to treat rheumatism, so maybe other auto-immune diseases would also respond. This is more speculation on my part, however.
Thanks for that one too. I think I'll stick with the no A protocol for awhile, because it's working for me. If I develop signs of deficiency I will modify diet.
Brother John
 

raypeatclips

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Yes.

Dare I say, miraculous.

The body is incredibly regenerative when put in the right conditions. Unless someone is past the point of no return it seems like most can be turned around and get heading in the right direction.

Where do you see the future of this forum going, and your administration of it, now that you are following, and advocating someone other than Peat, that talks about very different things to Peat?
 

Jennifer

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The body is incredibly regenerative when put in the right conditions. Unless someone is past the point of no return it seems like most can be turned around and get heading in the right direction.
Yeah, that!
Waynish said:
I bet regenerating the liver will further aid in autoimmune recovery and dietary liver tollerance.
I would think so since the liver is one of the structures that makes up the immune system, along with the lymphatic system, which includes the thymus and spleen, bone marrow, immune cells (lymphocytes, monocytes, basophils, macrophages, T-lymphocytes, B-cells, helper T etc.) and parasites.
 

charlie

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Where do you see the future of this forum going, and your administration of it, now that you are following, and advocating someone other than Peat, that talks about very different things to Peat?
You are very wrong, he is inline with Peat on many things. However, it seems that Peat might have missed the elephant in the room, the great lymphatic system. A system that contains over 80% of the bodies fluids, the sewage system of metabolic waste. I think the reason why many people start running into issues Peating, their metabolism rises but the increased metabolic waste is not able to move out because the kidneys are not filtering correctly. So acidosis sets in, "autoimmune issues" start creeping in, etc....... Teeth start crumbling because the body is pulling calcium trying to buffer the increased acids. Cholesterol increases trying to buffer the acidosis. Fat and fluid start to pack on again trying to get ahead of the building acids from increased metabolic acidic waste. Dermatitis kicks in due to the acids trying to find their way out but since the kidneys are not filtering it breaks through the skin instead, same goes for acne. Some people naturally filter better then others, so maybe that is why some are doing better on Peat, while others start moving deeper into acidosis because they cannot stay ahead of the increased acids from the better metabolism. From my observations getting the kidneys filtering correctly quickly turns this acidic condition around.

I see this forum continuing to grow stronger, and taking "Perceive, think, act" and consciousness to a much higher level. And if I am correct with my observations and these findings brought to us by @Jennifer, healing to a whole new level. Thanks for asking! :hattip
 
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Tarmander

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You are very wrong, he is inline with Peat on many things. However, it seems that Peat might have missed the elephant in the room, the great lymphatic system. A system that contains over 80% of the bodies fluids, the sewage system of metabolic waste. I think the reason why many people start running into issues Peating, their metabolism rises but the increased metabolic waste is not able to move out because the kidneys are not filtering correctly. So acidosis sets in, "autoimmune issues" start creeping in, etc....... Teeth start crumbling because the body is pulling calcium trying to buffer the increased acids. Cholesterol increases trying to buffer the acidosis. Fat and fluid start to pack on again trying to get ahead of the building acids from increased metabolic acidic waste. Dermatitis kicks in due to the acids trying to find their way out but since the kidneys are not filtering it breaks through the skin instead, same goes for acne. Some people naturally filter better then others, so maybe that is why some are doing better on Peat, while others start moving deeper into acidosis because they cannot stay ahead of the increased acids from the better metabolism. From my observations getting the kidneys filtering correctly quickly turns this acidic condition around.

I see this forum continuing to grow stronger, and taking "Perceive, think, act" and consciousness to a much higher level. And if I am correct with my observations and these findings brought to us by @Jennifer, healing to a whole new level. Thanks for asking! :hattip
Is there a place where people are discussing Dr. Morse online that I could read?
 

InChristAlone

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So then how did Grant miraculously get rid of all this acidosis and lymph congestion eating red meat?
 

Blossom

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So then how did Grant miraculously get rid of all this acidosis and lymph congestion eating red meat?
I'm reviewing ETFOH again and he points to unbound vitamin A causing acidosis and the body then pulls calcium from the bones to buffer acidity. I'm not fully convinced 100% just relaying what I read in his ebook. I'll find the quote for you.
 

Blossom

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@Janelle525 There's a whole chapter in ETFOH related to vitamin A, inflammation, acidosis and osteoporosis but here's a short except from p. 237
"The body must combat this lowering of the pH and combat it fast to bring it back to a normal range. It does this with calcium. Now, of course, the critically important question is where did all this kid’s serum calcium come from. It didn’t just magically appear, and minerals are not created from other elements. He didn’t eat a kilogram of calcium just before being rushed to the emergency ward. Therefore, it came from his bones. There’s no other possible source. Even though this is a single case study, it completely matches with many other studies in this regard. What about some really convincing evidence from a broad geographical perspective to support this claim? We have a recent report from Sweden (Prof. Håkan Melhus from Uppsala Clinical Research Centre84, Department of Medical Sciences, Uppsala University, Uppsala, Sweden) with just such data. Here we have near indisputable clinical evidence that elevated levels of vitamin A is indeed causing osteoporosis. But daily consumption is only half the story. The real risk is the long-term, elevated storage levels. Currently, no one understands at all well the spectrum of safe consumption. In this report, there were 66,000 women on a normal Swedish diet, and they are slowly developing osteoporosis."
 

Mito

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I'm reviewing ETFOH again and he points to unbound vitamin A causing acidosis and the body then pulls calcium from the bones to buffer acidity.
But in theory this would not cause problems in a Peat inspired diet? The high dietary calcium and adequate vitamin D should keep parathyroid hormone low and bone resorption to a minimum.
 

InChristAlone

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So then according to Grant's theory the reason why a fruitarian starts filtering is due to reduction in vitamin A but aren't caretenoids in colorful fruit as well?
 

InChristAlone

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For what it's worth I haven't been eating that great and have been getting more cloudy urine and I checked today looks like my kidneys are filtering. No special diet! Havent been eating much fruit besides one banana. Don't even drink much water, I think people who pee large quantities of more clear urine typically dont filter well. And in fact my eGFR (a kidney filtration number on a CBC blood test something I recommend everyone checking on) increased since last yr (from 102 to 114 which is very good though not where I used to be 7 yrs ago, I was consuming cod liver oil and raw milk back then). So my kidney health is better than it was last yr. Again no special diet. Though I did avoid liver since last spring.
 
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Blossom

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But in theory this would not cause problems in a Peat inspired diet? The high dietary calcium and adequate vitamin D should keep parathyroid hormone low and bone resorption to a minimum.
Correct, theoretically it should not. That's just Grenereux's views. I do not think anyone doing fantastic on Peat should be concerned.
 

somuch4food

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I am starting to question the whole "vitamin" theory that started at the beginning of the century. We might have identified a few vitamins, but vitamin D turned out to be more of an hormone. There might be like a thousand vitamins yet to be discovered. Why focus on 1?

As Peat often reminds, the context is everything. I grew up on a good deal of PUFA and a high dairy diet. In my case, calcium has probably accumulated in my body. I seem to be better when keeping calcium low.

Inflammation plays a role in almost all diseases. Vitamin A might be a cause of inflammation for some (like in Genereux's case), as iron or PUFA can be in others. The key is to find ways to lower inflammation. Some choose to increase intake of antioxidants (vitamin D, vitamin C, vitamin E, etc) while others prefer to reduce sources of inflammation. You can also focus on improving your body's ability to fight inflammation which can be achieved by improving gut, liver, kidney and lymphatic system.
 

volzrules

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Right On! And that info in no way nullifies the idea that Vitamin A can be toxic. In fact this info fits into that idea."Inadequate cholesterol production by the liver and inadequate bile production is indicative of a toxic, over-burdened liver, and an over-all high toxic body burden." So if vitamin A makes the liver toxic..you get low cholesterol.

I know there are many things that can overburden the liver... and for me the only real question is: How does one know if too much vitamin A is in the liver and body fats?

People can shout out endless facts about vitamin A, D, Ratios etc etc But when a person has tried many different routes for healing and then finds an experiment that works... At that point something is working for the body. Something good is happening. I don't have enough info and understanding to say: "Vitamin A is not a vitamin and has no good purpose in the body"
But I do have enough info to say: "I believe vitamin A toxicity can exist".
Thanks!
Brother John

So best way to deal with over burdened liver and low cholesterol? In spite of good diet and thyroid hormones? Eggs in plenty. Good protein. Yet weight gain. Hypothyroid in spite of thyroid hormone intake.
 

MarcelZD

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So best way to deal with over burdened liver and low cholesterol? In spite of good diet and thyroid hormones? Eggs in plenty. Good protein. Yet weight gain. Hypothyroid in spite of thyroid hormone intake.

I experimented with higher Vitamin A intakes starting at the beginning of 2018 - regular liver, carrot salads, eggs. I've noticed significant fat accumulation in my midsection over the course of several months, as well as a decrease in energy levels and the worsening of a skin condition. Roughly a month ago I drastically reduced my VA intake following Matt Stone's blog post. I still drink some full-fat milk, but the bulk of my calories come from beef, rice, wheat. Sure enough I already lost about 3-4kg of what I presume to be body fat since I made strength gains in the gym during the process. I'm almost as lean now as I was at the beginning of the year (~12-13% bf, abs showing but not very dry) and I'm positive that with the avoidance of VA I'll be a bit leaner even in a few months. I didn't track my calories and I just eat as much as I want - generally lower fat/pufa avoidance/high carb/muscle meat balanced with gelatin.

All of this is anecdotal of course, and there's no guarantuee this will work for you, but I think if your current diet doesn't give you the desired results it might be worth giving it a shot.
 
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Dotdash

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After reading both e-books I think there is quite a bit of information worth considering whether one agrees with the concept or not. There is always something to learn from someone who has done successful self experimentation. The mention of Taurine supplementation is quite intriguing considering the positive threads on this forum concerning its use. It offers another side to the coin of possibly how and why it helps in hair regrowth. The starvation photos are also of interest as examples of thick eyebrows and existing hair on the head of individuals who did not have the advantage of Danny Roddy or Ray Peat literature or suggested food sources. It is too compelling to ignore or dismiss.
 

InChristAlone

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After many months of pondering this and seeing some benefits from getting less than the RDA for much of the summer of vitamin A I have now considered going low A for a while to see if I can clear up my butt crack skin problem and also completely clear my ear canal of the flakiness (which by the way my skin problems started after I had gotten serious about getting A).

The main reason I am convinced there is something to this because of Dr. Garrett Smith. I have yet to read all the books Grant wrote it's just too much for now but I eventually will. Garrett has quite a few Facebook videos if anyone is interested to see his thought process and connections he has made. I trust his opinion more than n=1 because he actually has clinical data to back up his opinions. He just published a lot of threads on his new forum: Chronic Insidious Vitamin A Toxicity, aka Hypervitaminosis A

My main reason for commenting is to see what other people are eating if they are doing the low A. I had been getting about 300 calories from haagen dazs lately so I'd need to figure out more calorie sources that aren't just rice. I do not want to live on rice and meat! I know bananas are ok and confirms why I do so well on them. Applesauce is okay. I already eat quite a bit of wheat which is an option for people who aren't bothered by it.
 

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