Anti-Peat Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

Discussion in 'Debate - Anti-Peat' started by franko, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. ilikecats

    ilikecats Member

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    Stupid. Not even deserving of a rebuttal...
    But with that there’s a lot of people on this forum who are pretty cavalier about their vitamin A dosing. Ray has mentioned that vitamin a needs are very much affected by thyroid function. 10,000-15000 iu would probably create problems for a hypo thyroid person. I see a lot of hypo people on this forum dosing 100,000iu which I don’t think is a good idea. Ray has mentioned that vitamin a uses the same transport protein in the blood as thyroid hormone and too much (which varies and depends on a multitude of factors) can suppress thyroid function. Ray only recommends 5,000iu daily for hypothyroid individuals
     
  2. Diokine

    Diokine Member

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    I suspect the issues of toxicity associated with Vitamin A in this context are due to differences in lipocalin gene sets and exposure to glucocorticoids during crucial times in development.

    Retinoic acid has been shown to derange glucocorticoid receptor feedback in the HPA axis and can encourage neural topology that can express as autoimmune conditions.

    It stands to reason that restricting retinol intake in such a case could be beneficial. I think antagonizing glucocorticoid activity should effect the same results.
     
  3. Richiebogie

    Richiebogie Member

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    From my reading so far, butter may still be a good idea...

    G Genereux found that the vitamin A deficiency experiments of the 1920's and of later decades used lard in the "deficient" rat food which had the rats dying around 8 - 10 weeks, whereas butter was used in the vitamin A "sufficiency" diet which kept the rats healthy.

    However he has found that lard (from rendered pig skin) is rich in retinoic acid whereas butter is fairly low in retinoids and the cholesterol in butter is great at protecting the body from retinoic acid!

    He says that 8 - 10 weeks was well before starvation would have ordinarily killed the rats. Therefore he concludes that the retinoic acid was actively poisoning the rats.

    Apparently the makers of Accutane advise that it should not be taken during pregnancy due to potential birth defects!

    "CONTRAINDICATIONS AND WARNINGS. Accutane must not be used by female patients who are or may become pregnant. There is an extremely high risk that severe birth defects will result if ..."

    Genereux concludes that the experiments were back to front! This is why the vitamin A "deficiency symptoms" are the same as the known vitamin A overdose symptoms!

    The whole thing sounds like PUFA and Essential Fatty Acids all over again!
     
  4. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    I was getting at least 3 TBS butter a day which is 1k IU and then at least meeting the RDA per day. Ironically during this time of excessive butter intake (was also doing raw milk from jersey cows) I had chapped lips even in summertime! Taking vitamin B2 helped.

    Isn't accutane an analog of vitamin A?
     
  5. sunraiser

    sunraiser Member

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    It isn't just vitamin D, vitamin A and K are closely controlled but work in tandem in the body. Too much vitamin A will deplete you of K, and not enough K will leave you lower in vitamin A (but so will too much!).

    There also, in my experience, can be an adverse impact on iodine from taking vitamin A alone, so perhaps that's a deficiency y to consider.

    Iodine deficiency will fix with 150 to 300 mcg per day or less (just eat white fish sometime!), just to clarify I'm not referring to the iodine megadose guys.
     
  6. Waynish

    Waynish Member

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    I did but what is your explanation for everyone else seeing this issue so vaguely, while you see it clearly? Why are you getting such large effects from amounts of retinol which affect everyone else so little? For example, I had a bottle of red wine and some French foie gras tonight and literally feel as if the foie gras healed me. In other words, describe how healthy you are - if you wouldn't mind :)
     
  7. RMJ

    RMJ Member

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    or maybe u just have a problem with dairy

    ever tried dairy free before?
     
  8. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    I was going to say earlier that the pizza isn't proof vitamin A causes mouth ulcers. Typically ulcers result from acidic foods too. I used to get at least a few a yr, I don't remember the last time I had one and I still eat liver occasionally (and pizza!).
     
  9. postman

    postman Member

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    So what can I eat if I want to try this? Rice, beef, salt, and what else? You say coconut oil is ok but for some reason the guy who wrote the books says it worsened his symptoms, he thought it liberated more vit a or something. Is bread ok? Soy sauce? Beer, whiskey, vodka?
     
  10. Peater Piper

    Peater Piper Member

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    It seems like even if vitamin A is a toxin, it still has a low level requirement in our body. I'd like to see some of our forum gurus weigh-in. Anyway, this study found a negative impact on the function of beta cells in retinol deficient mice, resulting in symptoms similar to type 2 diabetes. Resumption of trans-retinol in the diet caused a reversal of the dysfunction.

    Vitamin A deficiency causes hyperglycemia and loss of pancreatic β-cell mass. - PubMed - NCBI
     
  11. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I noticed that mushrooms, masa harina, cocoa, oats, coconut and ox tail all are fine. I just plugged different foods into Cronometer to get an idea. Apples and pears look pretty low at about 1-3%. I'm sure there are many more and that @franko about!
     
  12. sunraiser

    sunraiser Member

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    Sorry but it's literally mad that this is gaining traction. It's such a dangerous idea to spread.

    Supplement 225mcg iodine a day, eat some greens and get some sun plus eat meat and starch to cravings plus some fruit and reasses.

    Vitamin A is IMPERATIVE for so many bodily functions. You will not be able to create sufficient ceruloplasmin without a good amount of vitamin A - this means you become both copper and iron toxic as you cannot metabolise either without ceruloplasmin as a carrier protein.

    Vitamin A helps zinc absorption and it's a rate limiting factor for vitamin D. I have seen it cause issue in iodine and copper deficiency but eating to craving will avoid any kind of overdose.

    All experts agree that vit D:vit A ratio should be between 1:2 and 1:20 so even if the vit D need is just 400iu that's at least 800iu per day. We know the body can synthesise 10-25000iu vitamin D in a day when very depleted. Keep that in mind.

    The problem is some kind of road block in your current lifestyle. It's YOU it's not vitamin A. Fix the road block, don't create another irrational nutrient fear. This will only make you much sicker in the long run, even if it provides short term symptomatic relief.

    **to add - vitamin A, D, zinc and iodine are all needed in sufficiency for a strong mucosal barrier. This is also key in recovery from autoimmune issues. Also eat your vit A with lots of fat so it's properly absorbed!
     
  13. dbh25

    dbh25 Member

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    I just ate a Big Mac with fries, it has 530 IU Vitamin A. I just threw up.
    Vitamin A is a problem.
     
  14. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Try not to let it get to you. It's just a discussion. There are lots of things discussed here that would have bothered me a few years ago like the carnivore diet and men rubbing estrogen on their balding heads but anymore I just see it as a way for people to work through different ideas. Thanks for sharing your balanced perspective.
    That's a good one!
     
  15. postman

    postman Member

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    Lol and don't forget to eat enough omega 3 so you can make eicosanoids!
     
  16. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    People are bored, I tell you.
     
  17. cyclops

    cyclops Member

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    How can any vitamin be so bad that it must be completely avoided? It's a vitamin for crying out loud! They'd have to rename it!
     
  18. Tenacity

    Tenacity Member

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    Why would the body convert carotene into retinol if retinol were a poison?
     
  19. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Chapter 5 of his free ebook Poisoning for Profits explains in detail why in his opinion the original rat deficiency studies from the 1920's were not only flawed but actually contained vitamin A that had been oxidized into retinoic acid (isotretinoin) via the processing methods used on the lard and milk casein. So essentially he is saying the rats were never put on a deficiency diet in the first place. The researchers believed they had done that through their processing methods but at the time what they didn't realize is that although vitamin A normally fluoresces when it's converted to retinoic acid it does not and in their analysis of the ingredients they wrongly concluded a complete absence of vitamin A. It is quite interesting to read his summary of the early studies.
     
  20. Richiebogie

    Richiebogie Member

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    Perhaps Vitamin A is like PUFA...

    Is it almost impossible to avoid?

    If there is a true minimum vitamin A requirement are we automatically covered by eating just 100g of fruit, veggies or animal products?

    Just as Peat suggests we don't get hypnotized by flashy fish oil salesmen, maybe we should be wary of vitamin A supplements...

    Just as Peat suggests that force feeding ourselves soy milk, sunflower seeds, walnuts and oats is not a guaranteed path to health, maybe we can make ourselves sick on 3oz liver, grated carrot and the leftover juice from cooked spinach?
     
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