Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

superGrover

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RP has said/written it in several places. Thyroid, Vitamin A, and cholesterol must combine in the right quantities in the mitochondria to produce pregnenolone, which is the source of all other steroids, including cortisol and estrogen. If there is 0 Vitamin A then steroids can't be produced.

Cholesterol, longevity, intelligence, and health. -- "Thyroid hormone and vitamin A are used in the process of converting cholesterol into pregnenolone, the immediate precursor of progesterone and DHEA. Anything that interfered with these processes would be disastrous for the organism. The supply of cholesterol, thyroid and vitamin A must always be adequate for the production of steroid hormones and bile salts."

I can find sources on thyroid aiding the production of steroids, but not vitamin A. Peat himself didn't note a source either. :/
 

Orion

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Although prisoners of war who were starved for years and pretty much all bone made full recoveries of health after a few months of gorging on crazy amounts of food. even their weight stabilized to before the starvation after a few years i believe. There are a lot of reports on their recovery after WW2 and such. not sure what role supplementation played back then though.

This sort of goes inline with the prisoners being depleted of VA. Makes me think there is some direct connection to VA and thiamine depletion. No VA overload so then thiamine uptake is nominal.
 

Blossom

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From anonymous forum member:
Hi Blossom hope you're
doing well!
Vision progress report...I finally saw the eye Dr, haven't been in 2 yrs.. Been low A since 7/18.
He's very thorough and a specialist in maacular degeneration, glaucoma.They take pictures inside the eye and its disturbing because you see it on the screen.he has patented his own testing equipment sold throughout the country, has patients who travel from Maine Boston. Even New York. So he is good at his work. He said my vision has improved, eyes look great. Whatever I'm doing, keep doing it.
That's after 2 full months low A
Going back in 1 yr staying low A
 

Orion

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but poisonosis A affects cellular respiration and is stressful, so including thiamind isn't a bad idea; it's part of the nutritional therapy for alcoholism and they has similarities

To early to say yet, but my experimentation with allithiamine does seems to be generating a very positive response, completely different from high dose thiamine HCl(but I was not doing low VA at the time). Going to give it several weeks and will report in with my one year low VA update.
 

Amazoniac

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To early to say yet, but my experimentation with allithiamine does seems to be generating a very positive response, completely different from high dose thiamine HCl(but I was not doing low VA at the time). Going to give it several weeks and will report in with my one year low VA update.
Your current B-complex supplement provides symbolic amounts of choline and inositol. With the cavern that it sholud not be safe to supplement these in a decontaminated state, if your period of megadosing led to structural damage, these will probably be useful in repair. It's quite difficult to get an adunbance of choline without eggs, milch and some greenos, it would require plenty of meat in the diet.
- Interactions Of Thiamine, Riboflavin, And Other B-vitamins (you'd likely need large quantities for this)
 

thomas200

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i have some crazy news!!

So I became toxic in a matter of 3.5 months by VA tablets, spirulina, sweet potatoes, eggs, all that stuff. Before I started going high on VA, I had noticed some bald spots blatantly forming on my hairline. When I started high VA, the bald spots worsened which traumatized me, thinking I was balding at 16. I am 11 months into this diet, turned 18 recently, and my hairline is seriously filling back in and its an actual miracle!! Turns out I was vitamin A toxic even before all the tablets haha. Must've been all the multivitamins I took as a kid or something.

Anyways i've pretty much recovered from like 15 toxicity symptoms including dandruff, hairloss, brain fog, bloat, bone pain, mood swings etc.. I did have to throw away my social life for nearly a year, even as someone who couldn't stand missing out on social events, this is totally worth the journey.
 

Vinero

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i have some crazy news!!

So I became toxic in a matter of 3.5 months by VA tablets, spirulina, sweet potatoes, eggs, all that stuff. Before I started going high on VA, I had noticed some bald spots blatantly forming on my hairline. When I started high VA, the bald spots worsened which traumatized me, thinking I was balding at 16. I am 11 months into this diet, turned 18 recently, and my hairline is seriously filling back in and its an actual miracle!! Turns out I was vitamin A toxic even before all the tablets haha. Must've been all the multivitamins I took as a kid or something.

Anyways i've pretty much recovered from like 15 toxicity symptoms including dandruff, hairloss, brain fog, bloat, bone pain, mood swings etc.. I did have to throw away my social life for nearly a year, even as someone who couldn't stand missing out on social events, this is totally worth the journey.
Even before I found out about Ray Peat I would regularly eat sweet potatoes (the orange ones) with butter. Thinking the combination of carbs and saturated fats would increase my metabolism. Ofcourse I was not aware beta-carotene was a problem so I would eat them 2 -3 times a week. I had many signs of high estrogen during the time I ate sweet potatoes such as fat gain, puffy face, depression and low-energy. After a while they just didn't taste good to me anymore so I completely stopped eating them. After that I ate mainly regular potatoes and white rice as my carb sources and my high estrogen symptoms went away.
 

rob

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Interesting thread. As an example by which things can go wrong, I remembered the following study: Transcription factor ISX mediates the cross talk between diet and immunity

A write-up of the study explained:

"The study showed ISX [an intestinal protein] turns on and off genes involved in the pathway based on beta-carotene availability. The protein helps the small intestine shuttle in the right amount of beta-carotene for the body's vitamin A needs, similar to a gatekeeper at a drawbridge. Nearby immune cells rely on this control mechanism to properly respond to foods entering the small intestine. This maintains an effective barrier against potential foodborne threats. The researchers found that when ISX is absent, immune cells in the small intestine can overreact to beta-carotene-rich diets. Their findings suggest ISX is a key mediator between diet and gut immunity."

By this logic, if someone had a downregulation of the ISX gene then BCMO1 wouldn't be properly regulated and, consequently, large amounts of dietary beta-carotene could indeed cause an inflammatory response.
 
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Hermes

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Is there significant amout of VA/beta carotene in CBD oil? I've been on the low VA for a couple of months but still struggle with sleep issues (waking up a fews hours too early and not being able to fall back asleep).
 

Hermes

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i have some crazy news!!

So I became toxic in a matter of 3.5 months by VA tablets, spirulina, sweet potatoes, eggs, all that stuff. Before I started going high on VA, I had noticed some bald spots blatantly forming on my hairline. When I started high VA, the bald spots worsened which traumatized me, thinking I was balding at 16. I am 11 months into this diet, turned 18 recently, and my hairline is seriously filling back in and its an actual miracle!! Turns out I was vitamin A toxic even before all the tablets haha. Must've been all the multivitamins I took as a kid or something.

Anyways i've pretty much recovered from like 15 toxicity symptoms including dandruff, hairloss, brain fog, bloat, bone pain, mood swings etc.. I did have to throw away my social life for nearly a year, even as someone who couldn't stand missing out on social events, this is totally worth the journey.

That's good news! Glad it's working for you. It's motivating. The low VA diet is pretty restrictive but for the success you've had so far, certainly worth the restraint. I feel far from where I'd like to be but well, it takes time and patience.
 
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Currently taking Retinil 4 drops a day it makes me feel somewhat spaced out. I can’t say whether my experience is negative or positive yet. I’ll keep a log then update this thread when I finish the bottle.
 

postman

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Currently taking Retinil 4 drops a day it makes me feel somewhat spaced out. I can’t say whether my experience is negative or positive yet. I’ll keep a log then update this thread when I finish the bottle.
It's only going to get worse.
 
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It's only going to get worse.
What improvements have you personally seen? It would be more compelling if some of the people doing low/no VA would show proof through lab work that it is detrimental for the objective people. Improvement in temps, lower estrogen, higher progesterone, higher testosterone? Surely one or all of these would improve if it was beneficial... not saying your wrong at all if your mood improves, joints feel better these are all good signs. Maybe others have already posted these things it’s just a huge thread
 

RealNeat

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Don't know if this has been linked yet. A lot of responses to go through... But definitely worth examining.

Nutrition and Physical Degeneration: Chapter 18

Scroll down about half way for the picture along with this quote;

'One of the most important contributions in this field has been made by Professor Fred Hale, of the Texas Agricultural Experiment Station, at College Station, Texas. He has shown that many physical deformities are readily produced by curtailing the amount of vitamin A in the ration of pigs. He produced fifty-nine pigs (15) that were born blind, every pig in each of six litters-where the mothers were deprived of vitamin A for several months before mating and for thirty days thereafter. In pigs, the eyeballs are formed in the first thirty days. He found, as have several others, that depriving pigs of vitamin A for a sufficient period produced severe nerve involvements including paralysis and spasms, so that the animals could not rise to their feet. He reported that one of these vitamin A deficient pigs that had previously farrowed a litter of ten pigs, all born without eyeballs, was given a single dose of cod liver oil two weeks before mating. She farrowed fourteen pigs which showed various combinations of eye defects, some had no eyes, some had one eye, and some had one large eye and one small eye, but all were blind.'

15. HALE, F. The relation of maternal vitamin A deficiency to microphthalmia in pigs. Texas S. J. Med., 33:228, 1937.
 
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Mito

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I think this Shawn Baker example probably has nothing to do with VA. Beef has about 100 IU VA per pound. If If tolerates eating multiple pounds of beef daily he should tolerate the VA in a single apple without having a severe reaction. Meat is a very low VA food but it's not zero, if you want zero you pretty much have to stick to grains and certain beans.
Shawn Baker just did another podcast last week on Selfhacked The Carnivore Diet With Dr Shawn Baker - SelfHacked

Shawn’s Carnivore Diet (00:07:00)
  • At the time of recording, Shawn has been on the Carnivore Diet for ~2.5 years
  • 95% of his diet comes from red meat – typically steak or hamburger meat
  • The remaining 5% would consist of seafood, eggs, and some dairy
  • His main (and usually only) seasoning is salt
  • He will occasionally stray from the diet for special occasions
    • I.e. he’d have a slice of cake for his son’s birthday
  • Shawn hasn’t had any fruits, vegetables, or grains for a few years now
  • He generally doesn’t eat organ meats
  • Eats both grass-fed and grain-fed meat
 

Louise

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Don't know if this has been linked yet. A lot of responses to go through... But definitely worth examining.

Nutrition and Physical Degeneration: Chapter 18

Scroll down about half way for the picture along with this quote;

'One of the most important contributions in this field has been made by Professor Fred Hale, of the Texas Agricultural Experiment Station, at College Station, Texas. He has shown that many physical deformities are readily produced by curtailing the amount of vitamin A in the ration of pigs. He produced fifty-nine pigs (15) that were born blind, every pig in each of six litters-where the mothers were deprived of vitamin A for several months before mating and for thirty days thereafter. In pigs, the eyeballs are formed in the first thirty days. He found, as have several others, that depriving pigs of vitamin A for a sufficient period produced severe nerve involvements including paralysis and spasms, so that the animals could not rise to their feet. He reported that one of these vitamin A deficient pigs that had previously farrowed a litter of ten pigs, all born without eyeballs, was given a single dose of cod liver oil two weeks before mating. She farrowed fourteen pigs which showed various combinations of eye defects, some had no eyes, some had one eye, and some had one large eye and one small eye, but all were blind.'

15. HALE, F. The relation of maternal vitamin A deficiency to microphthalmia in pigs. Texas S. J. Med., 33:228, 1937.

Maybe this is a similar situation to the rat studies of around the same time - they thought they were giving the rats a vitamin A deficient diet, but in fact they were giving the rats a diet with vitamin A and I think it was a more damaging form of vitamin A from what I remember.
 

thomas200

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That's good news! Glad it's working for you. It's motivating. The low VA diet is pretty restrictive but for the success you've had so far, certainly worth the restraint. I feel far from where I'd like to be but well, it takes time and patience.
Yea there's definitely a need for patience with this diet lol. I'm pretty impatient but this diet has taught me more than one thing for sure.
 

Vinero

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Grant has taken cauliflower out of the Low Vitamin A diet.
Ideas, Concepts, and Observations

"However, there are some other very important facts we need to remember. One is that humans have been dealing with vitamin A (in its various forms) for millions of years now. Yes, it is a toxin to humans, but plants love it, and it’s not going away. Therefore, we just have to learn to deal with it more safely. The supercritical and obvious conclusion is that the human body has already developed mechanisms to deal with, neutralize , and detoxify the retinoids. These biological processes are reasonably well understood by current medical science, and are actually quite well documented too. The key point to know here is that In addition to the physical elimination pathways, via the liver, skin, and the RBPs, the body has very likely already developed the needed antidotes to retinol and retinoic acid. I think these antidotes are primarily the alcohol and aldehyde dehydrogenase enzymes. These enzymes effectively slowly chop up the retinoid molecules.


Sure, cauliflower has little to no vitamin A, but one surprising thing to know about cauliflower is that it can have a pretty high content of formaldehyde (source). It’s not massively over the top, but it’s still relatively high. The thing is that the same alcohol and aldehyde dehydrogenase enzymes are needed to neutralize and detoxify that formaldehyde. Other foods to be on the lookout for in this regard are Asian pears, canned pears, and other canned fruits, and to a lesser extent even bananas. The other major culprit is the artificial sweetener Aspartame. Aspartame is a big problem because the breakdown pathway for it is that it first gets converted into formaldehyde. The resulting formaldehyde will therefore compete for our precious alcohol and aldehyde dehydrogenase enzymes."
 

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