Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Blossom]

I think the real value of this thread is that we have so many people trying to get down to the bottom of what’s really happening. I tend toward thinking it’s impaired VA metabolism at this point.

@postman, do you eat carnivore style? I’m just curious.

 

[Cirion]

@charlie any news about that thymus supplement being in stock on lifegiving store?

 

[redsun]

It is, but I don't know if it is the rate limiting amino acid for glutathione production...i think that goes to cysteine but I could be wrong about that.

Seeing as it is very hard to get close to 2g cysteine a day unless you eat specifically foods high in cysteine and you can easily get 6g+ glycine in the diet if you eat a lot of meat, since meat is typical in the zero vitamin A diet, it's clear, cysteine would naturally be the rate limiting factor along with P5P but Im pretty sure this is the case with any diet since cysteine is very low in general in the diet, much lower than glycine intake regardless.

 

[Cirion]

That might be true for a healthy person, but someone who is hypo isn't lacking for cysteine trust me.

Gelatin, stress, longevity

The amino acids cysteine and tryptophan, released in large quantities during stress

Hypothyroidism itself increases the catabolic turnover of protein, even though general metabolism is slowed.

Obviously, I'm not saying catabolism of protein is good, just that it's a fact of life that it's happening, and cysteine is released in bulk as a result, therefore, I see little reason to consume it in large quantities if the bloodstream is already full of it.

 

[charlie]

@charlie any news about that thymus supplement being in stock on lifegiving store?

Should have a few batches ready tonight.

 

[Cirion]

Should have a few batches ready tonight.

Nice.

 

[Amazoniac]

Seeing as it is very hard to get close to 2g cysteine a day unless you eat specifically foods high in cysteine and you can easily get 6g+ glycine in the diet if you eat a lot of meat, since meat is typical in the zero vitamin A diet, it's clear, cysteine would naturally be the rate limiting factor along with P5P but Im pretty sure this is the case with any diet since cysteine is very low in general in the diet, much lower than glycine intake regardless.

I agree on pyridoxine, but regarding the others, the calculation isn't this simple and clearing the cut. It can be affected by digestibility of the proteins in question, meal composition, timing, specifics of amino acid absorption, distribution, turnover, recycling, synthesis capability, ease of compensation, state, need for it, and so on.

The average intake of sulfur-containing amino acids isn't modest, about 3.5 g/d. Less than 1.5 g or so is already considered enough when not is under marked is stress, but even is taurine counts in sparing it is.

It's possible that optimal glycine requirements aren't as high as the amount estimated by paymanz's colleagues, but they make a case that it must not be low.

Therefore it might be more complicated than it seems.

- Amino Acid Supplementation For People With Poor Digestion
- NAC (cysteine) Increases Melanoma Spread
- The Metabolic Capacity For Glycine Biosynthesis Does Not Satisfy The Need For Collagen Synthesis

 

[Mito]

Well, let me rephrase. Most people aren't lacking in cysteine, so if it is needed for glutathione, it probably isn't the limiting factor where-as glycine seems more likely to me, especially if one doesn't consume glycine rich foods like gelatin.

According to Chris, gamma-glutamylcysteine synthetase is almost always the rate limiting enzyme in glutathione synthesis.

 

[Cirion]

Ok, but that doesn't change that Ray believes cysteine is very anti metabolic and so do I based upon my experiences with cysteine heavy diets.

 

[redsun]

I agree on pyridoxine, but regarding the others, the calculation isn't this simple and clearing the cut. It can be affected by digestibility of the proteins in question, meal composition, timing, specifics of amino acid absorption, distribution, turnover, recycling, synthesis capability, ease of compensation, state, need for it, and so on.

The average intake of sulfur-containing amino acids isn't modest, about 3.5 g/d. Less than 1.5 g or so is already considered enough when not is under marked is stress, but even is taurine counts in sparing it is.

It's possible that optimal glycine requirements aren't as high as the amount estimated by paymanz's colleagues, but they make a case that it must not be low.

Therefore it might be more complicated than it seems.

- Amino Acid Supplementation For People With Poor Digestion
- NAC (cysteine) Increases Melanoma Spread
- The Metabolic Capacity For Glycine Biosynthesis Does Not Satisfy The Need For Collagen Synthesis

Yeh I didn't mean to make it seem that simple. Of course optimal glycine intake is much higher than 6g if you are really pushing for optimization. What do you think is too low? You think 6g is too low? I usually get 7g, sometimes 8g from food. I do supplement taurine as I am not a fan of seafood and somehow I doubt you can get anywhere the same amount of taurine then you would from a few 500mg tablets.

 

[Mito]

Yeh I didn't mean to make it seem that simple. Of course optimal glycine intake is much higher than 6g if you are really pushing for optimization. What do you think is too low? You think 6g is too low? I usually get 7g, sometimes 8g from food. I do supplement taurine as I am not a fan of seafood and somehow I doubt you can get anywhere the same amount of taurine then you would from a few 500mg tablets.

https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/podcast/2018/01/08/why-you-need-glycine-a-panel-discussion/
41:41 We run a deficit of our ability to synthesize glycine relative to our needs of about 10 grams per day, according to the most conservative estimate.

 

[Amazoniac]

Yeh I didn't mean to make it seem that simple. Of course optimal glycine intake is much higher than 6g if you are really pushing for optimization. What do you think is too low? You think 6g is too low? I usually get 7g, sometimes 8g from food. I do supplement taurine as I am not a fan of seafood and somehow I doubt you can get anywhere the same amount of taurine then you would from a few 500mg tablets.

It probably depends (on muscle meat consumption, for example) but I honestly don't know what's a minimum acceptable for health. The point is that it can be challenging to predict which one is going to be limiting. People tend to respond well to both.

- Taurine-induced Diuresis And Natriuresis In Cirrhotic Patients With Ascites

https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/podcast/2018/01/08/why-you-need-glycine-a-panel-discussion/
41:41 We run a deficit of our ability to synthesize glycine relative to our needs of about 10 grams per day, according to the most conservative estimate.

It's questionable. How many of the wealthiest long-lived persons you think were consuming more than this amount?

 

[Mito]

Ok, but that doesn't change that Ray believes cysteine is very anti metabolic and so do I based upon my experiences with cysteine heavy diets.

In the video he explains how that enzyme is heavily regulated by several things including insulin making carbohydrates important. I wasn’t implying that cysteine was typically the limiting factor. I suspect it’s not for most people that eat meat.

 

[Mito]

It's questionable. How many of the wealthiest long-lived persons you think were consuming more than this amount?

How many more would there be?

 

[redsun]

It probably depends (on muscle meat consumption, for example) but I honestly don't know what's a minimum acceptable for health. The point is that it can be challenging to predict which one is going to be limiting. People tend to respond well to both.

- Taurine-induced Diuresis And Natriuresis In Cirrhotic Patients With Ascites

It's questionable. How many of the wealthiest long-lived persons you think were consuming more than this amount?

I see. Well beyond my typical glycine consumption if I take an additional 3g glycine in tablets throughout the day I can't say it does much for me on its own. I am sure one can hope its being put to use for collagen but of course its not that easy to see that happening. Taurine immediately creates an obvious positive effect for me though which I am quite the fan of. Thanks for the taurine link, I definitely have increased bile happenings with taurine and multiple positive effects from taking it occasionally.

 

[charlie]

Nice.

Thymus

 

[Cirion]

Thymus

First order! (Well, unless you ordered already =P)

 

[gaze]

I do actually believe vitamin A is nothing but a poison and is not a vitamin at all. What do you mean by "then slowly after a couple months some other problems propped up"? I haven't had any new health issues appearing since starting the low vitamin A diet (it's been almost 7 months). Other than some detox phases which lasted a few days my health has steadily been improving. My eczema and asthma are non-existant at this point. I can actually say I'm cured. That's right, I feel and look very healthy these days. I look like a completely different person when I look in the mirror. No more inflamed skin, no more itching, no more relying on asthma inhalers to get me through the night. You can't compare the keto diet or the vegan diet to the low-vitamin A diet. These diets cut out macronutrients like protein, carbs and even calories. The low vitamin A diet lets you nourish yourself very well and encourages eating as much as you want. As long as it's clean food like muscle meats, starch, beans, refined oils or white fruits/vegetables. We are avoiding a toxin as opposed to vegans and keto people or are avoiding essential macronutrients like proteins and carbs.

I understand what your saying, but what happens if you have a health problem in a couple years, what else will there be to blame? I worry that your idea of A as a poison is doing nothing but adding a mental barrier you may have to overcome a few years down the line, similar to a vegan who gives up their “morals”and forces themselves to eat animal products through a severe amount of anguish. When you put all your eggs in one basket, youre living pretty dangerously. You must remember, there are 0 long term studies of someone with Grants level of vitamins A from blood tests. I hope for your sake it’s possible to live an entire life without eating any A, or else your going to be in for a rough time down the line. Again though, I understand the problems that you have ”cured”, but I think a healthier approach would be to recover from excess A, and then re evaluate, rather then say you’re never going to eat a carrot again

 

[Vinero]

I understand what your saying, but what happens if you have a health problem in a couple years, what else will there be to blame? I worry that your idea of A as a poison is doing nothing but adding a mental barrier you may have to overcome a few years down the line, similar to a vegan who gives up their “morals”and forces themselves to eat animal products through a severe amount of anguish. When you put all your eggs in one basket, youre living pretty dangerously. You must remember, there are 0 long term studies of someone with Grants level of vitamins A from blood tests. I hope for your sake it’s possible to live an entire life without eating any A, or else your going to be in for a rough time down the line. Again though, I understand the problems that you have ”cured”, but I think a healthier approach would be to recover from excess A, and then re evaluate, rather then say you’re never going to eat a carrot again

It might be a healthier approach to recover from excess vitamin A like you said, instead of avoiding it forever. I am open to the idea we can somehow normalize vitamin A metabolism so that we can handle normal amounts of it in the diet. But so far no one has offered a solution for fixing vitamin A metabolism. If someone reading this knows how to do this please share it. I don't think simply providing stuff like magnesium or zinc to help to metabolize vitamin A will work, as I've supplemented with these things for a very long time and still had vitamin A toxicity symptoms. I've literally tried all supplements that are peat-approved and none of them had any dramatic effect. The exceptions were Progesterone, methylene blue, and vitamin E. They somewhat worked for my eczema but did nothing for my asthma. Nowadays I don't need as much supplements. I get can enough zinc from the beef I eat. Magnesium I need about half as much as I used to take. Strictly avoiding vitamin A is the only thing that has actually cured people from auto-immune diseases like Grant and myself. The low vitamin A diet is the only thing that works as far as I'm concerned.

 

[lampofred]

It might be a healthier approach to recover from excess vitamin A like you said, instead of avoiding it forever. I am open to the idea we can somehow normalize vitamin A metabolism so that we can handle normal amounts of it in the diet. But so far no one has offered a solution for fixing vitamin A metabolism. If someone reading this knows how to do this please share it. I don't think simply providing stuff like magnesium or zinc to help to metabolize vitamin A will work, as I've supplemented with these things for a very long time and still had vitamin A toxicity symptoms. I've literally tried all supplements that are peat-approved and none of them had any dramatic effect. The exceptions were Progesterone, methylene blue, and vitamin E. They somewhat worked for my eczema but did nothing for my asthma. Nowadays I don't need as much supplements. I get can enough zinc from the beef I eat. Magnesium I need about half as much as I used to take. Strictly avoiding vitamin A is the only thing that has actually cured people from auto-immune diseases like Grant and myself. The low vitamin A diet is the only thing that works as far as I'm concerned.

Since Vitamin A is necessary for steroid production, and if you are under heavy metabolic stress you can only produce the end-of-line steroids like estrogen and cortisol as opposed to pregnenolone and progesterone, by eliminating Vitamin A you are reducing estrogen since you are taking away the raw material for its production, hence the improvement in autoimmune issues?