Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Mito]

It would, A and K are more specialised blood tests though, and much more expensive, so I'm not paying for them lol. Vit D blood tests are very popular so much cheaper. :)

Vitamin A and Vitamin D tests are the same price (from Life Extension anyway).

 

[raypeatclips]

Vitamin A and Vitamin D tests are the same price (from Life Extension anyway).

Oh nice! The place I sometimes use in the UK the A blood test costs double the D blood test, so I was basing it off that :) Grant says he's going to get them tested himself anyway soon.

 

[Travis]

Are you Grant Genereux by any chance? :)

You directly reference his name so often which seems odd - kind of sales pitch-y.

I was thinking about asking him that exact same question, and you had read my mind verbatim.* The manner in which he uses the name 'Grant' explicitly, and not suitable pronoun, does give the reader an overcompensatory vibe...Yet it's his reluctance to acknowledge any of the book's shortcomings is what had led me to that suspicion.

[*] If you actually did read my mind, please ignore the Hieronymus Bosch panda bears playing tennis. [F.Y.I. Giraffes make the best line judges, for the obvious reason.]

 

[Richiebogie]

By that logic half of the people on this site are Ray Peat or his pet poodle, "Potato"!

Woooof! (Darn these tiny keys!)

By the way, I have been getting some itching since dropping liver and butter and reducing beta carotene-rich fruits and veggies (much less OJ, cantaloupe, tomato, mango, lettuce, red pepper, broccoli)!

Where I scratch my legs is beginning to look a bit like eczema!

It is winter here, but I did get an hour of sun last weekend.

Is the standard Peat theory that more D requires more A?

It might just be the new soap, or could the mussels I ate contain so much b12 that some of my beta carotene stores converted to retinol?

I am hoping to put on some weight as per that 1947 article: Sci-Hub | HYPERVITAMINOSIS A AND CAROTENEMIA | 10.1001/archpedi.1944.02020010040005

 

[raypeatclips]

I was thinking about asking him that exact same question, and you had read my mind verbatim.* The manner in which he uses the name 'Grant' explicitly, and not suitable pronoun, does give the reader an overcompensatory vibe...Yet it's his reluctance to acknowledge any of the book's shortcomings is what had led me to that suspicion.

[*] If you actually did read my mind, please ignore the Hieronymus Bosch panda bears playing tennis. [F.Y.I. Giraffes make the best line judges, for the obvious reason.]

I don't get the vibe from franko that he is Grant Genereux™, Grant Genereux™ seems more open to other possibilities, and from my experiences of speaking to them both, franko is more blindly defending Grant Genereux's ™ theory than the man himself does. I think it is more of a cult leader and cult worshipper situation.

 

[Travis]

I don't get the vibe from franko that he is Grant Genereux™, Grant Genereux™ seems more open to other possibilities, and from my experiences of speaking to them both, franko is more blindly defending Grant Genereux's ™ theory than the man himself does. I think it is more of a cult leader and cult worshipper situation.

Breaking News: There has been another case reported of acute hypervitaminosis A on this forum, if you're interested, which is the fourth one that I've come-across here so far.

 

[Blossom]

Breaking News: There has been another case reported of acute hypervitaminosis A on this forum, if you're interested, which is the fourth one that I've come-across here so far.

Do you think it's possible that the four are legitimate cases?

 

[dbh25]

Breaking News: There has been another case reported of acute hypervitaminosis A on this forum, if you're interested, which is the fourth one that I've come-across here so far.

Did they get it from eating a Little Caesars pizza?

 

[raypeatclips]

Breaking News: There has been another case reported of acute hypervitaminosis A on this forum, if you're interested, which is the fourth one that I've come-across here so far.

Could you link me to them?

 

[Blossom]

Regardless of anyone's personal feelings or views on the subject all I ask is that we remain respectful of one another.
Yes it's controversial, and that's the reason it was decided there would be one dedicated thread for franko to share information on the subject. People who disagree can fairly easily ignore the topic with that compromise in place.

 

[postman]

Guessing you haven't read any of the comments I've sent to Grant Genereux™ and just waded in here to argue, seeing as I have plainly stated my opinion on this in one of the comments. Yes I understand why it would seem that X had a problem, X didn't take any vitamin D but lowered A and now feels better, so D can't have been the problem. I just don't agree with it. I was putting forward the idea that vitamin A was only problematic in a vitamin D deficient person, and that it was a ratio between them, which was the issue. In a vitamin D deficient person, eventually smaller and smaller amounts of vitamin A would cause reactions.

Do you think vitamin D is simply a big bad vitamin A antagonist, and does nothing else? From Peat's email exchanges alone, he has said vitamin D benefits: testosterone/cortisol balance, protective hormones pregnenolone and progesterone, using calcium, mineral metabolism, lower PTH, bone metabolism, immunity problems, improving T4-T3 conversion, lowering LH, etc.


Well he has a blog, a youtube channel and a few ebooks about it, so guessing he's not able to? Or not willing to, because of the consequences?



I know people with terrible diets and hobbies that have good vision, what's that got to do with it? What's his digestion and bowel movements got to do with vitamin D or A? If he's getting a better diet than before, more fibre, then he will have better bowel movements. This cholesterol levels are considered perfect by doctors that want to push cholesterol lowering drugs onto people in order to make money. I think those levels look too low if we are talking about being in optimal health.



"Our experiments afford some confirmation of this view, or at least that administration of considerable amounts of vitamin D relives the toxic effects caused by jewfish liver oil."

Who is suggesting getting vitamin D in excessive amounts, or even equal amounts of vitamin A? Please show me, during this discussion with you and Grant, where I have said to get excessive amounts of Vitamin D, or where I have given advice regarding supplementation or dosages at all? If someone was explaining how beneficial aspirin is, I wouldn't bring up a study where mice are fed 50 grams of aspirin and say "Look! Aspirin as bad I told you!" Because nobody is suggesting taking 50 grams of aspirin, just like I haven't suggested taking 50,000iu (or more) vitamin D. That picture you showed me actually backs up my theory, so thank you for posting. My theory being that vitamin D is protective against A, in a ratio (which I have not yet said) but I've seen either Peat and/or haidut mention 5:1 A: D as being good.

I spoke to Grant Genereux™ my self in the comments of his website I'm not copying and pasting them all here because they're long, but they're in the "four year update" post and he responded this. "I’m not at all concerned about my vitamin D levels. Even if it is extremely low too I still would not bother supplementing with it. And, I understand the opposing forces between vitamin A and D, and you make a good point about the possible hyper-sensitivity to A being because of low D. I can totally see that being a possible contributor."

So Grant Genereux™ is coming round to the idea that low D could be a factor, he is starting to see a sensible view, are you?

What's your health status like? Are you healthy? Are you taking any medicines or supplements?

 

[Travis]

Do you think it's possible that the four are legitimate cases?

Yes. These people had taken supra-RDA doses for weeks and had reported classic hypervitaminosis side-effects shortly after initiation.

 

[charlie]

Regardless of anyone's personal feelings or views on the subject all I ask is that we remain respectful of one another.
Yes it's controversial, and that's the reason it was decided there would be one dedicated thread for franko to share information on the subject. People who disagree can fairly easily ignore the topic with that compromise in place.

 

[raypeatclips]

What's your health status like? Are you healthy? Are you taking any medicines or supplements?

Healthier than I was this time last year- not as healthy as I'd like to be. Why do you ask? Just doing UVB lamps/ sunbeds/ sun bathing at the moment.

 

[Blossom]

Yes. These people had taken supra-RDA doses for weeks and had reported classic hypervitaminosis side-effects shortly after initiation.

Thanks

 

[Travis]

By that logic half of the people on this site are Ray Peat or his pet poodle, "Potato"!

That wasn't a logical proposition that I'd made, that was my judgement. Reluctance lies on a spectrum, naturally, as does the strength of evidence being opposed. I had of course been referring to the degree of reluctance perceived and not simply a mere presence of such, as you had implied by that ridiculous quote above.

 

[Richiebogie]

Hi @Travis,

A few people other than yourself have proposed that Franko = Grant Genereux or a friend or a paid promoter.

This appears to be because Franko introduced us to and vigorously defends Grant's theories, which are unorthodox from a Ray Peat perspective.

Scaling up the logic (or judgement) would require many users of this site to be Ray Peat or a loyal associate!

[Ok, less than half of the users here are as defensive as Franko, but Ray's theories and recommendations are more wide-ranging and nuanced. Users here might defend aspects of Ray's advice, like sugar or low-pufa, or supplements].

Ray's fictional poodle represented the loyal associate.

As Raypeatclips pointed out, a devotee can be less flexible than the object of that devotion.

Eg. A fan is usually better at marketing and quoting a writer's work than the writer himself.

The artist is busy working on new works while the fan pores over every detail of the old works.

It is possible that Franko and Grant are the same person. However as Franko tells us he is his own person you are essentially calling him a liar.

It seems like an unnecessary direction to take this discussion, particularly when you agree that hypervitaminosis A is a concern!

 

[Travis]

Hi @Travis,
It is possible that Franko and Grant are the same person. However as Franko tells us he is his own person you are essentially calling him a liar.

I would assume that anyone who'd promote a book this extent would not only expect others to be under such a suspicion but to also anticipate it being expressed. You had mentioned yourself that other people have had the very same concern, yet you have chosen to frame me explicitly as being out of line. Deceptive self promotion transgress all bounds of decency, certainly worse that expressing a suspicion of it, and these are not rare occurrences online. There needs to be checks and balances for such behaviour and if he's not Grant he shouldn't mind. I personally would've taken more offence to comment #467 than mine.

 

[sunraiser]

Hieronymus Bosch panda bears playing tennis

well there's one for the phrase book.

 

[Richiebogie]

Cool