Grains: heavy user and resistant starch

[tiinafin]

Hi all! I am Nordic and used to eating a lot of grains: oats, rye, wheat, barley (I can easily devour 400g oats per day....). I don’t get much swelling from them and at least I feel like I digest them well. In addition, they are very cheap and of good quality here (organic is also easy to get). It seems that sometimes, according to Peat’s thinking, starch should be avoided, but then sometimes it would be ok to use it if you can tolerate those well.
I have now started to soak the oats and use autolysis as well as an acid starter for baking. So is it recommended to keep on eating, or try to avoid/reduce? And does soaking help, or does it possibly further increase the amount of resistance starch? (e.g. oatmeal by soaking in warm, does it increase the amount of resistance starch?)

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Hi all! I am Nordic and used to eating a lot of grains: oats, rye, wheat, barley (I can easily devour 400g oats per day....). I don’t get much swelling from them and at least I feel like I digest them well. In addition, they are very cheap and of good quality here (organic is also easy to get). It seems that sometimes, according to Peat’s thinking, starch should be avoided, but then sometimes it would be ok to use it if you can tolerate those well.
I have now started to soak the oats and use autolysis as well as an acid starter for baking. So is it recommended to keep on eating, or try to avoid/reduce? And does soaking help, or does it possibly further increase the amount of resistance starch? (e.g. oatmeal by soaking in warm, does it increase the amount of resistance starch?)

Well all those grains are not "Peaty"tiinifin. I hope you are consuming A LOT of dairy to balance all that phosphorus and anti-nutrients. That is also a lot of PUFA's ?

 

[Ben.]

He talked somehwat positively of nixtamalized corn tho.

Potatoe that is troughouly boiled and well washed white rice is "less" problematic too apparantly.
For grains etc. i suggest not only organic, but if you can source it, sprouted/fermented products.

You know, sourdough bread for example. Sprouted products are kind of available too. Just make sure there is no added vegetable oil like sunflowerr or canolal in them (which sadly, mmost of the time there is)
Wether it is nixtamalization, fermentation, soaking, boiling and sprouting, all thoose things reduce enzyme inhibitors and lower phytic acid while increasing the nutrient content and/or availability. Gluten for example is reduced in fermented products for example.

All these things should allow for easier digestion. You might have a wierd phase at first because your not used to them. Incase it does not taste good i wouldn't force myself to eat them tho.

Listening to the body and your intution is key here. I used to love raw nuts (i still do but stopped for digestion reasons a year ago) but when i soaked them, they started to taste like crap. Phytic acid in low amounts has been shown to be benefital kind of. Now wether our taste buds" tell us what we need or not idk, its tricky because some "tastes" are acquired. Eggs for example is something that at times i can eat lots off, and then i need a break from them completly for a week or so.

 

[tiinafin]

thank you both. I always eat a lot of protein and fat in all foods, as well as something fructose to balance the food. that is, never just grain.
I really enjoyed the taste of soaked oats and sourdough, oh my ? and also a good notion from you that some phytate is also needed.
However, a good note, too, is that oats have pufas... it's has been bothering me. As well as whether soaking increases the amount of resistance starch.

Could it be that, on behalf of my neighborhood and heredity, I could have a better tolerance for starch? I also get it here cheaply and with high quality, so I will definitely keep it in my diet. (well, Finland is also a promised country for rapeseed oil, but I don't care about it, no matter what it is on offer!)

 

[Ben.]

thank you both. I always eat a lot of protein and fat in all foods, as well as something fructose to balance the food. that is, never just grain.
I really enjoyed the taste of soaked oats and sourdough, oh my and also a good notion from you that some phytate is also needed.
However, a good note, too, is that oats have pufas... it's has been bothering me. As well as whether soaking increases the amount of resistance starch.

Could it be that, on behalf of my neighborhood and heredity, I could have a better tolerance for starch? I also get it here cheaply and with high quality, so I will definitely keep it in my diet. (well, Finland is also a promised country for rapeseed oil, but I don't care about it, no matter what it is on offer!)

I thought resistant starch develops after heating starch and then from cooling it down? So aslong as you eat the potatoes/rice or w/e warm and fresh there shouldn't be to much resistant starch. Some people seem to benefit from starch or resistant starches with their gut health (which is contrary to the ray peat teachings).

While probably not a popular opinion around here, every single individual is so unique in their ability to deal with the environment and food by a multitude of complex interactions within the universe that is our own body, i believe that it may very well be that starches could be a good or even a safe food for you... altough why that would be, i dont know.

perhaps i shouldn't have said that ... i can already see someone linking studies showing presorbtion in pigs again ..

 

[sjatte]

I am swedish, my stomach firmly protests to oats especially

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

thank you both. I always eat a lot of protein and fat in all foods, as well as something fructose to balance the food. that is, never just grain.
I really enjoyed the taste of soaked oats and sourdough, oh my ? and also a good notion from you that some phytate is also needed.
However, a good note, too, is that oats have pufas... it's has been bothering me. As well as whether soaking increases the amount of resistance starch.

Could it be that, on behalf of my neighborhood and heredity, I could have a better tolerance for starch? I also get it here cheaply and with high quality, so I will definitely keep it in my diet. (well, Finland is also a promised country for rapeseed oil, but I don't care about it, no matter what it is on offer!)

I am from America, don't have any health problems, and I tolerate all grains just fine. I take them out of my diet because they don't add anything to a healthy diet and Ray Peat calls grains "animal food" or "famine food", and says we should choose better than them when we can.

 

[tiinafin]

I find it very good and refreshing that you, Ben, are bringing up your views, which might not get "support" here. I myself am on the same line. I believe that a “self-looking” diet built on sensible principles is exactly what should be pursued.
So it is good that you gave this view, and I hope that this chain will either have people who agree with the view or deviate from it.

Also very interesting, Rinse, is the idea that grains do not bring any benefits to the diet. I would see that handling them properly could change the situation? I need to explore this more. And fun to hear about a Swede who, in turn, can't stand oats

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I find it very good and refreshing that you, Ben, are bringing up your views, which might not get "support" here. I myself am on the same line. I believe that a “self-looking” diet built on sensible principles is exactly what should be pursued.
So it is good that you gave this view, and I hope that this chain will either have people who agree with the view or deviate from it.

Also very interesting, Rinse, is the idea that grains do not bring any benefits to the diet. I would see that handling them properly could change the situation? I need to explore this more. And fun to hear about a Swede who, in turn, can't stand oats

It is refreshing to converse with like minded and open minded people on this forum like you tiinafin. I am sure you will do well with Ray Peat's advice!

 

[tiinafin]

So true! I think it is really great that for example the two of you, in a very good spirit, came to a partly different opinion and view. Yet neither dictated anything, I was not offered ephemerality and I got the perspective to look at my case from both sides of it.
After all, Peat himself giggles himself when he heard. about the peat diet, that he would be interested to hear what it is like ?
in all this journey into the ”pro-met” I have already enjoyed most the knowledge, the views, the level of the body, the environment and the place of residence, etc. This all is endless and updating (or put put in better term: confirming) all the time ??
And in all this it is wonderful to still wonder with you like a child about the small grain and twhat to do with it ?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

So true! I think it is really great that for example the two of you, in a very good spirit, came to a partly different opinion and view. Yet neither dictated anything, I was not offered ephemerality and I got the perspective to look at my case from both sides of it.
After all, Peat himself giggles himself when he heard. about the peat diet, that he would be interested to hear what it is like ?
in all this journey into the ”pro-met” I have already enjoyed most the knowledge, the views, the level of the body, the environment and the place of residence, etc. This all is endless and updating (or put put in better term: confirming) all the time ??
And in all this it is wonderful to still wonder with you like a child about the small grain and twhat to do with it ?

Yeah I hate those boxy diets that have people eating the few same foods everyday and needing the measurements to be right, and if you didn't lose on the scale you must have failed somewhere. I just said to julia in another post, the Ray Peat diet is very similar to the low carb low fat group, but just getting to have "dessert" with every meal, not too different from when my parents were young. Granted it is nice to know why too much meat isn't good and why drinking our milk is, but trying to meet a day's requirement tracking macros is to obsessive for me and I doubt Ray has ever done that past his experiments. When I had trouble five years ago not being able to drink the milk and orange juice, because of high histamine issues, I was disappointed, but picked up my spirits with a little pep talk with myself and said that just eliminating PUFA's was going to make a tremendous difference in my anti-aging quest and would change the course of my life where my health is concerned. Some people are "Peatier" than others, but we can all benefit from Peat's work in big ways and small. Carry on my friend :)