Good Supplement/Pharm For Muscle Gain That Does NOT Cause:

Luckytype

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Yh I'm weight lifting Atm always feel sick during and after and form of exercise seems to make my appetite worse.

Have you tried easy walking? Im talking like outdoors for like 30mins once or twice a day and done this for minimum of 2-3 weeks?
 

olive

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Not once is there an occurence of the words Mk-677 or Ibutamoren in any of the 15 pages of the article I linked
I don’t know if you’re too simple to read between the lines or if you simply just didn’t read the article at all but he talks about the dangers of continuous growth hormone secretion - which is what MK-677 does, it creates receptor downregulation and desensitisation. MK-677 has a ‘bleed’ like effect on GH. So while there may be some short term benefit (if deficient, aka old) you are setting them up to crash.
Do you measure your patients fasting and postpranadial blood glucose? What do you do to combat the inevitable insulin resistance (shown in study after study) and possibility for type 2 diabetes?
 
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There is this armwrestler called Denis Cyplenkov who clearly has acromegaly, and recently he was diagnosed with some form of kidney disease( I don't think they mentioned exactly what disease he developed, but it was certainly something kidney related). Since one of the ways niacinamide is so protective and restorative to the kidneys is through lowering free fatty acids in the blood, and considering that GH does the exact opposite of that( increases lipolysis), it becomes clear that GH is not kidney friendly in big amounts.
 

RisingSun

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I don’t know if you’re too simple to read between the lines or if you simply just didn’t read the article at all but he talks about the dangers of continuous growth hormone secretion - which is what MK-677 does, it creates receptor downregulation and desensitisation. MK-677 has a ‘bleed’ like effect on GH. So while there may be some short term benefit (if deficient, aka old) you are setting them up to crash.
Do you measure your patients fasting and postpranadial blood glucose? What do you do to combat the inevitable insulin resistance (shown in study after study) and possibility for type 2 diabetes?

The pattern through which Mk-677 elicites an increased GH output is amplification of the natural pulses throughout the day.
In other words, you don’t constantly bleed or secrete GH (like a CJC with DAC would trigger) but you secrete more GH everytime a pulse comes.
It hasn’t shown to lead to any insulin desensitization or blood glucose irregularities.
You are welcome to show me studies that prove otherwise, and to explicitely cite the bits that refer to this in the article I linked
 

Jing

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That ain't right. Maybe get off all the mumbo jumbo like cypro and whatever.
Eat you some steak and bread, or some chicken and rice. Get you bacon milk and eggs for breakfast.
I'm not taking cypro Atm I'm taking mk677 .. without it I can't eat what you just said to eat lol I've had this problem all my life .. the morning is the worst time as well.
 

Jing

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Have you tried easy walking? Im talking like outdoors for like 30mins once or twice a day and done this for minimum of 2-3 weeks?
Yh I only started weight lifting about 3 months ago .. from about september or october last year I have been walking everyday started with 30-40 mins now I do hour to two hours everyday.
 

olive

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The pattern through which Mk-677 elicites an increased GH output is amplification of the natural pulses throughout the day.
In other words, you don’t constantly bleed or secrete GH (like a CJC with DAC would trigger) but you secrete more GH everytime a pulse comes.
It hasn’t shown to lead to any insulin desensitization or blood glucose irregularities.
You are welcome to show me studies that prove otherwise, and to explicitely cite the bits that refer to this in the article I linked
It hasn’t been shown to lead to insulin issues? Are you kidding me? Literally every study I’ve read about MK-677, and I’ve read many, mentions significant rises in blood glucose and a decrease in insulin sensitivity. There’s a reason why (educated) body builders won’t touch this stuff.


Effects of an oral ghrelin mimetic on body composition and clinical outcomes in healthy older adults: a randomized trial. - PubMed - NCBI
“Fasting blood glucose level increased an average of 0.3 mmol/L (5 mg/dL) in the MK-677 group (P = 0.015), and insulin sensitivity decreased. ”

And also this gem..
“Cortisol levels increased 47 nmol/L (CI, 28 to 71 nmol/L (1.7 microg/dL [CI, 1.0 to 2.6 microg/dL]) in MK-677 recipients (P = 0.020). “

Oral administration of growth hormone (GH) releasing peptide-mimetic MK-677 stimulates the GH/insulin-like growth factor-I axis in selected GH-defici... - PubMed - NCBI
“Fasting and postprandial insulin and postprandial glucose increased significantly after MK-677 treatment”
 

ShotTrue

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@RisingSun did not know that mk677 increased the pulses, that's good news for everyone who uses it.

@olive I think mk677 is mild enough that a healthy person won't suffer much from the increase in cortisol and prolactin, especially if taken pre bed where you sleep it off. I'm speaking from experience, though I did feel it had an effect
I have read as well as gh messes with blood sugar and so do the secretagogues. However unless you're pinning 4ius ED for a year or predisposed to such health issues your body can recover. HGH increases healing of wounds, turnover of cells, healing skin-making it glow, increases muscle cell creation, helps with sleep. Someone who is training probably will only find it useful
 

ShotTrue

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I'm not taking cypro Atm I'm taking mk677 .. without it I can't eat what you just said to eat lol I've had this problem all my life .. the morning is the worst time as well.
I meant like aspirin or anything else that's basically a recommended drug around here.
Have you not seen any progress? Can you handle 2-3 days a week 1/2 hour lifting sessions? This would increase your appetite and rev the metabolism and androgen production

Try eating gummy bears/ dried mango slices/ something really easy to eat that's high calorie after exercising, and make sure you're getting at least 100 grams of protein a day
 

Jing

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I meant like aspirin or anything else that's basically a recommended drug around here.
Have you not seen any progress? Can you handle 2-3 days a week 1/2 hour lifting sessions? This would increase your appetite and rev the metabolism and androgen production

Try eating gummy bears/ dried mango slices/ something really easy to eat that's high calorie after exercising, and make sure you're getting at least 100 grams of protein a day
I'm not taking other drugs, yh I'm lifting 3 times a week I've seen good process in muscle growth with some fat along with it, strength gone up good too.. doesn't help appetite though ..
 

Jing

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I can't remember if it is b1 or B2 which I have seen recommended for increasing appetite anyone know which b vitamin it is?
 

redsun

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I can't remember if it is b1 or B2 which I have seen recommended for increasing appetite anyone know which b vitamin it is?

One of beriberi's symptoms is loss of appetite often causing one to become underweight. Thiamine hydrochloride is the recommended B1 to use. Beriberi is thiamine deficiency.
 

ShotTrue

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I'm not taking other drugs, yh I'm lifting 3 times a week I've seen good process in muscle growth with some fat along with it, strength gone up good too.. doesn't help appetite though ..
Have you tried gorging youself? What about your test levels? Focus on optimizing them, as 600 test you could build muscle but it would limit anabolism and appetite
 

RisingSun

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It hasn’t been shown to lead to insulin issues? Are you kidding me? Literally every study I’ve read about MK-677, and I’ve read many, mentions significant rises in blood glucose and a decrease in insulin sensitivity. There’s a reason why (educated) body builders won’t touch this stuff.


Effects of an oral ghrelin mimetic on body composition and clinical outcomes in healthy older adults: a randomized trial. - PubMed - NCBI
“Fasting blood glucose level increased an average of 0.3 mmol/L (5 mg/dL) in the MK-677 group (P = 0.015), and insulin sensitivity decreased. ”

And also this gem..
“Cortisol levels increased 47 nmol/L (CI, 28 to 71 nmol/L (1.7 microg/dL [CI, 1.0 to 2.6 microg/dL]) in MK-677 recipients (P = 0.020). “

Oral administration of growth hormone (GH) releasing peptide-mimetic MK-677 stimulates the GH/insulin-like growth factor-I axis in selected GH-defici... - PubMed - NCBI
“Fasting and postprandial insulin and postprandial glucose increased significantly after MK-677 treatment”

In both studies you linked, the increases in blood glucose and cortisol are both temporary and limited in magnitude, not to say insignificant.
 

Jing

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Have you tried gorging youself? What about your test levels? Focus on optimizing them, as 600 test you could build muscle but it would limit anabolism and appetite
Yh doesn't work,

Testosterone level is about 670.
 

Jing

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One of beriberi's symptoms is loss of appetite often causing one to become underweight. Thiamine hydrochloride is the recommended B1 to use. Beriberi is thiamine deficiency.
Would b1 still up the appetite even without a deficiency?
 

ShotTrue

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Test level isn't bad, could be up to 1200 though so may be worth looking into
Test increases appetitie and body mass
 

Jing

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Test level isn't bad, could be up to 1200 though so may be worth looking into
Test increases appetitie and body mass
Doubt many people would ever get over 1000 without steroids that's basically double what I have now lol, 800 would be more reasonable, how would you raise test?
 

redsun

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Have you tried gorging youself? What about your test levels? Focus on optimizing them, as 600 test you could build muscle but it would limit anabolism and appetite

Probably impossible to gorge if you do have a problem with appetite naturally.

Would b1 still up the appetite even without a deficiency?

If you end up seeing a difference in appetite when supplementing you likely may have had suboptimal levels but not deficient. If your levels were good Im not sure what you would see. B1 is very safe best way to find out is to try it.

Doubt many people would ever get over 1000 without steroids that's basically double what I have now lol, 800 would be more reasonable, how would you raise test?

I would not worry about raising testosterone specifically. For one it will likely not work if you are a chronic undereater. Restoring appetite and eating properly will raise testosterone levels on its own. I know B1 and zinc deficiencies can cause loss of appetite.
 

ShotTrue

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Probably impossible to gorge if you do have a problem with appetite naturally.



If you end up seeing a difference in appetite when supplementing you likely may have had suboptimal levels but not deficient. If your levels were good Im not sure what you would see. B1 is very safe best way to find out is to try it.



I would not worry about raising testosterone specifically. For one it will likely not work if you are a chronic undereater. Restoring appetite and eating properly will raise testosterone levels on its own. I know B1 and zinc deficiencies can cause loss of appetite.
You force feed yourself. I've done it, plus its a treatment for anorexia. Whether or not you're hungry isn't always what matters

Eh I haven't had the opportunity to raise test myself, but vitamin D vitamin K works, so does ashwgandha.
 

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