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Good Quality Vitamin E

  1. Hello all,

    I have been experimenting extensively on myself with various brands of tocopherols, and I would like to share my experience. Unfortunately, my experience with the Unique E brand of mixed tocopherols is NOT very positive. Initially (about 2 years ago) I had a very positive reaction to the supplement but then I noticed that I don't get the energy and libido boost any more. Since I was careful with isolating the supplementation and was only taking Unique E at the time, I suspected that something changed in the supplement. I called the vendor and the sales rep confirmed that the formulation changed but she could not be more specific. I myself noticed that the color of the pills became much lighter. The original container I had bought back in 2010 had pills with very dark amber color with some hints of red. That's how pure vitamin E should look like, and I still keep some of those pills for reference.
    The Unique E I bought recently has pills that are much lighter in color, I'd say somewhere between dark yellow and light brown. Very, very different from what I used to buy. So, I bought several bottle of Unique E from different stores just to confirm that it's not an isolated bottle that just happens to be bad. All of them had the same issue, but this still leaves the possibility that it is a bad batch.
    I contacted the vendor again and asked for a Certificate of Analysis (COA). The vendor politely declined, but when I started asking about their testing methods and what is the purity of the supplement the sales rep became openly hostile and said something along the lines of "So what's the problem if we add some vegetable oil to the pills? Everybody's doing it and our supplement has the lowest amount of any vendor".
    The problem for me is that there is no way to get info on how much is "some vegetable oil". Is it 10%, or 30% or 50%?
    So, I did some extensive research and found some other vendors of certifiably pure mixed tocopherols, and the vendor actually offers a COA. Here is the link:
    http://www.lotioncrafter.com/vitamin-e- ... ls-95.html

    The tocopherols are 95% concentration and I can confirm that the product has the same high viscosity, dark amber/reddish color, and subtle taste that the original Unique E formula had. I have attached the COA the vendor sent me.
    Just in case somebody thinks that I am pitching a specific product/website, here are some other sources of high concentration tocopherols:
    http://www.bulknaturaloils.com/Products ... erols.aspx
    http://tkoskin.3dcartstores.com/Vitamin-E_p_57.html

    I ordered from all 3 vendors, and the energy/libido results came right back! The results are more pronounced with one of the products but I won't share which one until some other people have had a chance to order and test on themselves. Then we can compare unbiased results.

    Anyways, just wanted to share my (not so positive) experience with Unique E (both the company and the product) and provide some additional sources of high concentration tocopherols. I'd be happy to hear other people share their experience as well. I keep searching for quality supplements, so if I find something worth mentioning I will share it with the forum.
     
  2. So the ******* ***holes are adding vegetable oil, the thing I want to avoid?
     
  3. Useful information, thanks for taking the time to ask the company and tell us about it. Just as well I've held off from buying any Vit E!

    It would be good to know if anyone gets these sent to the UK successfully and/or finds a UK source of similar quality stuff.
     
  4. http://www.nhrorganicoils.com/products.php?id=3687

    This is another manufacturer (sells to USA/Europe). You can find the certificate of analysis on the page for download. The picture of the bottle is interesting, the oil seems to separate into two colors.

    How can you tell from the certificate of analysis that there's no added oil?
     
  5. Son of a gun. :banghead

    haidut, :hattip

    I am truly grateful that you have brought this to our attention. My Unique E bottle is just running out, and I will not be using it anymore. And will be ordering what you suggested and let everyone know how it goes.
     
  6. Is it really possible for them to add a significant amount of oil without listing in the ingredients? I am aware that some stuff doesn't get disclosed if in a tiny quantity (which can nevertheless cause problems), and that's legal, but what you're saying is an entirely different thing.
     
  7. It definitely does not say anything about added oils on the label, I just checked. That being said, they can do whatever they want.

    I will be trying a different brand to see if I notice better results.
     
  8. Maybe they'll change the formulation if enough people complain via e-mail?
     
  9. Maybe I made too strong of a statement.
    My experience with Unique E was that the good effects I was feeling from it, while taking only that supplement, suddenly disappeared and the pills changed in appearance. So, I tried to contact the vendor and inquire if the formula had changed. The sales rep said that the formula had indeed changed but did not specify how/when. I noticed the change back in mid 2011, across multiple bottles from multiple stores. When I asked for COA I was basically yelled at and lectured how every vendor adds vegetable oil and Unique E has the least.
    So, I was not able to confirm how much oil is added and what kind, but rather that something changed in the formula and the vendor won't divulge what or provide a COA, which most companies claiming to sell a high-purity supplement would provide anyways. A good example is Relenltess Improvement and their vitamin K capsules. They provide a COA to prove that the capsules is almost entirely menatetrenone without much additives.
    Anyways, the COA for that one vendor I listed says the tocopherols are at least 95% purity so that leaves very little room for any other oils. Given I take 2000mg on a regular basis, every dose leaves at most 100mg for other vegetable oils and that is very little to be concerned about. It also says that there are no other chemical additives.
    Physically - the color, viscosity and taste of Unique E is VERY different from any of the products I got from the 3 vendors I listed, and that tells me either the tocopherol mixture is different or there are other substances in the Unique E that I cannot identify. Regardless, the driving force behind my investigation and ordering from different vendors was that I stopped feeling physically good from taking the Unique E product. When I took the product from any of the other 3 vendors I felt immediately better. Obviously, this is very subjective and unlike the blood test that I did for myself when testing the libido formula with zinc, BCAA, etc I did not do a test for Unique E only. So, there is a chance that the product is fine and I am just a weirdo that does not react well to it. But the fact that the vendor won't provide a COA or explain what has changed in the formula, leaves me guessing and that is not a good thing for any vendor.
    I think the best option is for people to order from different vendors and share their experience. If the vendors can provide COAs for their products then even better. Also, just from a hedging perspective we need to have multiple sources of quality vitamin E rather than just rely on one company.
    Not trying to bash a specific vendor. Just sharing my experience and alternative sources. If someone wants to try to convince Unique E to provide a COA that would be great. This will end all speculation.
    Thanks to all for the comments!
     
  10. haidut, are all those you mentioned liquid versions? do you know of something that comes in pill-like versions?
     
  11. Yes all these tocopherol supplements are in liquid form. I have not been able to find capsulated tocopherol of such purity. The closest I was able to find is a product by a Canadian company and it is made from wheat germ oil, which is what vitamin E used to be extracted from a century ago. I was so excited when I found it but unfortunately it seems to have been discontinued by the manufacturer. I have no idea why the vendor would discontinue a product that was wildly popular and sold out within days of releasing a batch. Her ies the link to the Canadian pharmacy that used to sell it.
    Http://www.pharmacenter.ca

    The website was up and running up until a week ago but now it seems down. However you can still get the cached version from google. Just search google for "pharmacenter vitamin e soy free" and click on the cached link. Scroll down the page and find the product that says it is made from wheat germ oil and is soy free. You can see the vendor and the labelso feel free to find other vendors that sell it and share with the forum. I called that pharmacy multiple time and they kept promising that someone will check on availability and get back to me. Well nobody ever called me back.
    Anyways, that has been my experience so far. Maybe someone here will luckier and find a pure vitamin E in capsules, prefrrably not sourced from soy.
     
  12. You rock, haidut.

    I happen to have older and newer bottles of the A.C. Grace liquid version:
    [​IMG]

    Unless the darker color on the older batch is due to oxidation/aging (or the oil settling) I think you're right about the formulation changing. And I don't think the former is the case, because the newer oil looks different than I'm used to.

    Any objections to me putting up a page about your discovery, along with the alternative manufacturers? Then I can send it to A.C. Grace as gentle encouragement to improve :D
     

  13. By all means, if you think we can convince AC Grace to improve their product then I am all for it. I think our ultimate goal should be to have a list of 3-4 vendors offering high purity vitamin E so that no single company gets tempted to tamper with their product b/c of perceived monopoly over the market. I will keep searching for more tocopherol vendors and share with the forum. Maybe, as you just demonstrated, we can keep pictures of various product batches for vendors that do not offer a COA.
    Anyways, great suggestion and let me know if you any specific info from me to petition AC Grace.
     
  14. Is it possible to take a small dose, like 400 IU, in the liquid form?
     
  15. Sure, thats how much I started with and gradually increased the dosage to the level where I felt that adding more does not make me feel any better. You can buy a medical spoon that measures 1ml and take half such spoon for approximately 500mg. Tocopherol density is very close to water so taking a volume of 0.5ml equates roughly to 0.5g, which is of course 500mg. Btw the dose of 500mg is more than 400iu, in fact divide 500mg by 0.67 and you will get the dose in IU. But my point is that by getting a spoon that measures 1ml you can more easily approximate the 400iu dosage better than using a teaspoon. An alternative that I am actually using is to buy a set of espresso spoons, and those I think also measure 1ml. I got mine from Macys but most convenience stores sell them as well.
     
  16. Or if your a country bumpkin like me, the feed store sells 3 cc syringes for a quarter. ;) 1 cc=1 ml
     
  17. Agreed. I'm still a little fuzzy on the ideal form (someone told me that Peat liked the succinate form in at least one case), so I need to do some reading.

    I get the impression Peat prefers to leave out the tocotrienols, see this discussion.


    For those of us who prefer not to leave the house, I ordered this spoon set where 2 "dashes" is roughly 400IU (by my sloppy calculations).

    I...wish I had thought of that.
     
  18. I've got a product comparison page up:
    http://www.toxinless.com/mixed-tocopherol-vitamin-e

    It doesn't have that much to add to the products we've already found, but I fleshed out some details, and I'll try to keep it up-to-date as we find more manufacturers. I'm also going to send it to A.C. Grace; it'd be nice to continue to be able to trust them for "off-the-shelf" type products.
     
  19. I wonder, if before you present it to them that maybe try and contact them and see what they say about added vegetable oil and how much they add?

    Great work as always Dan!
     
  20. Thanks Charlie. I will ask for the percentage first, I imagine that's easier than getting a big ol' Certificate of Analysis.
     
  21. I use the 4Spectrum vitamin E brand.
    So far so good.
     
  22. That one looks pretty good! I'll have to update the page.
     

  23. I sounds good at first sight, except for the tocotrienols. As far as I know RP does not like tocotrienols b/c they have not been studies enough yet and there is some evidence that they cause liver enlargement. Besides, for most supplements in pill there is no COA and no way to verify what is the purity of the supplement. In the absence of COA, I'd say the second best test would be color, viscosity and taste. Good vitamin E should be red-brownish in color, very viscous and with peculiar vegetable-butterish taste. I guess get a bottle and try it out. Experiment is the ultimate arbiter:):
     
  24. I exchanged some emails with this company about a year ago. Aside from the fact that the tocopherols are "only" 70%, while the Lotioncrafter and the others are listed are at least 95%, the company told me that the rest of the 30% are vegetable oil and most likely soy oil. But if this is the only high purity supplement that would ship to Europe than I'd try it out and see how it affects me. I had surprisingly good effects from a Walmart vitamin E with about 50% tocopherol concentration, but it was discontinued.
    Anyways, my advice it to buy it and after it separates into the two colors I'd use the darker color. The lighter color is probably the vegetable oil they use as an additive. I will try to find the emails I exchanged with the company and post them on the forum.
     

  25. Yes! I used the 4Spectrum product before and I was very pleased with it. The guy selling it is quite a character too. I think he is based in Texas, and is a very outspoken political activist too. He thinks that Walmart and Obama are the devil, the USA is a communist dictatorship, aliens control the food supply, etc. We talked on the phone for like 30min before I could order. He also said that he gets the bulk tocopherol for making his product from some company in Ohio, but would not tell me which one (understandably). All in all, good product, but very pricey. Buying 2oz from 4Spectrum will cost you the same as buying a full 1lb from Lotioncrafter or 7oz from TKO. So, maybe we keep it in the list of vendors since it is a high purity product and another option to choose from if other companies start watering down the product.
    Oh, I almost forgot. The guy who owns 4Spectrum is a neighbor of the guys that own AC Grace. He does NOT speak highly of them, which maybe be just due to good old competition bashing. However, without me telling him about my experience with AC Grace he warned me that their product has been diluted and is no longer what it used to be under their old CEO. Apparently the company changed leadership some time in 2011, which is when I noticed the change in product quality as well.
    Anyways, I am digressing. Bottom line is I like the product but I think it's very expensive.
     
  26. The best selling mixed tocopherols vitamin E from iherb is Solgar, which comes from Safflower oil (so apparently it doesn't have soy? however, it doesn't say NO SOY). Any thoughts on that one, haidut?
     
  27. I think that the vitamin E part come from soy whereas the adding safflower oil acts probably as a carrier for the E.
    I noticed than when I used to take straight vitamin E I got some GI problem (probably due to the viscosity)..,, but as soon as I diluted the vitamin in a little of warm olive oil, the problem (mainly bloating) vanished.
    Plus, the MUFA (probably the oleic part) in olive oil is a better carrier than SFA or PUFA for liposoluble vitamin storage.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3200243/
     
  28. Testing post. Please disregard.
     
  29. A.C. Grace responded to me:
    They also mention on their web site, "Most Vitamin E on the market looks light in color — that’s because it may contain up to 50% vegetable oil as a filler. UNIQUE E® does not!"

    I'm going to follow up asking why we seem to be seeing lighter colors. Haidut, was your communication using A.C. Grace's 1-800 number?
     
  30. Is it safe to assume that the lotioncrafter vitamin E is from soy?
     
  31. Yep, it's from soybean oil. I'll work on updating that product table I made to include a "source of tocopherols" column.
     
  32. unique e is probably ok for some people.
     
  33. Made some more updates to the growing product table:
    http://www.toxinless.com/mixed-tocopherol-vitamin-e

    Thorne's Ultimate E looks like a decent option for people that want a capsule, anyone have any experience with it? It seems hard to purchase right now, hopefully it's just hit a production slump rather than being discontinued.

    I noticed a possible snag with the 4Spectrum brand: some of their more-detailed listings mention tocotrienols, I'll have to find out which products have them.

    Solgar's oil initially sounds promising because it mentions sunflower oil, but I'm suspicious that it's only a carrier, and that the tocopherols are from soy like everyone else. I've contacted them to ask.

    So far it seems like only NHR Organic and 4Spectrum claim to be GMO-free.

    When I get all the details sorted out, I'll try sending the options to Peat and see what he thinks.
     
  34. A followup response from A.C. Grace after I asked about the color difference:
    Next I'll ask for a Certificate of Analysis, though that's probably pushing my luck.
     
  35. Lotion Crafter is out of vitamin E. I got there too late I guess. :(

    Lotion Crafter, meet the Ray Peat forum effect. :rolling
     
  36. Wow. So lots of people lurking and buying.
     
  37. Maybe the forum can create the demand for a niche market (at first) of Ray Peat pleasing supplements.
     
  38. Well who knows. Maybe they only had 2 bottles left. :rolling We are still a really small community.
     
  39. I hope it comes back in stock soon: I'm still not sure about A.C. Grace's claims, and wanted to order some. There's still the "1 pound" quantity available...maybe they'll split it up for us :lol:
     
  40. Lotion Crafter back in stock.
     
  41. After this announcement, maybe not for long.
     
  42. True, we shall see.
     
  43. Also note that Unique E is from GMO beans.
     
  44. China is a major supplier of raw materials for many American supplement makers.
    China is infamous for contamination of raw materials. It would be good idea to ask
    those companies if they use Chinese raw materials in their product.
     
  45. Haidut, isn't the 0.67 x mg IU calculation for vitamin E measured in d-alpha only, so depending on the amount of d-alpha vs the other tocopherols per mg, the IU for 500mg would be much less?
     
  46. Hi all,

    This my last exchanges with RP regarding ester form of vitamin E, tocotrienols, the original vitamin E product he used to work on, with his thesis advisor on vitamin E, Dr Soderwall, ( note his remarks on the viscocity and color of his source materials, which was light not dark brown or reddish) and if people with inflammatory condition would really benefit from taking vitamin E:

    " the vitamin E we had in the lab was from Sigma Chemical Co., and the source materials at that time were more varied, probably including wheat germ oil. It was very viscous and light colored. I think it contained the waxy saturated polycosanols and octacosanol.People with circulatory-inflammatory problems are likely to benefit from a supplement even when there's some PUFA with it."

    "The esters aren't as well absorbed as the plain vitamin E, and aren't as active as antioxidants, but the combination with some substances, as in the succinate, can improve the regulatory functions of vitamin E. By regulating the expression of genes involved in inflammation and estrogen action, vitamin E reduces some harmful processes of oxidation, but the scavenger action is a separate function of the molecule. Tocotrienol has been described as a colorless substance. I think the color in the original vitamin E preparations was the result of a charge transfer complex between small amounts of vitamin K and tocopherols. The impurities, including the very long chain saturated fatty acids and alcohols, were probably important for some of the effects originally studied."

    I'm trying to get even more information from RP and Maret G.Traber on which brand of vitamin E, as well as which form and dosage, would be the best bet for the "average" people.
     
  47. Oh boy.
     
  48. This one is from 100% concentrated wheat germ tocopherol complex in a base of wheat germ oil and is totally soy free.
    The dosage is low ( and, may be, more body friendly) but...no soy in it.

    http://www.oemine.fr/en/produits/oemine-e
     
  49. Have they confirmed that it's soy-free? I'm now paranoid because a few products don't mention soy at all, but derive the tocopherols from it. So the tocopherols could be derived from soybean oil and are only suspended in wheat germ oil, as I found out is the case with Solgar's Liquid Vitamin E.
     
  50. Haha, how completely insane. What else did they secretly stuff in there I wonder?
     
  51. I called them this morning (and lied...I told them that I have severe soy and soy derived products allergies and that if I eat soy my crohn's could flare up :D ).
    There is no soy, sunflower, safflower products used to manufacture this product ( at any point of the manufacturing process.). So it's safe to use for those with soy allergies but not for those with coeliac disease or gluten allergy ( and, of course, for those who want to avoid gluten.).
    The tocopherol portion are extracted only from concentrated wheat germ.
    The remaining part is added wheat germ oil ( 250mg of it per capsule.).
     
  52. That's fantastic, Wilfrid! Anyone have any idea how we could get some?

    Regarding A.C. Grace's Unique E, I'm a little baffled. So far they've been very open with me, sending me assays for the batches in my picture, indicating the alpha and gamma tocopherol levels haven't dropped. And assuming they're being honest in their statement that "...our Mixed Tocopherols oil formula has not changed for 50 years," I wouldn't think they've added any carrier oil. And their claim that the color difference may due to variations in their crops seems plausible.

    Haidut, could the sales rep you spoke with have been from a reseller? If not, it seems like they're giving out contradictory statements.
     
  53. I personally give some weigh to haibut's feelings after taking it. These corporate people often are just trying to cover their asses.
     
  54. Agreed, j. But I'm intensely curious whether A.C. Grace is being truthful (meaning that Haidut's symptoms are due to variations in the crops), or whether they actually have started adding vegetable oil and are lying about it.
     
  55. I'd say lying, just out of cynicism.
     
  56. Love the way AC Grace skirt around the issue that their E comes from GMO soy beans:

    "Is your product truly soy free?

    Although our product is derived from soybeans, it does not contain any soy DNA protein because they are destroyed during distillation. Our product is certified to be PCR-negative which is the industry recognized classification for products that have been produced and distilled to remove any and all contaminates that could affect purity. Scientists state that there is no difference between a GMO and non-GMO product that is PCR-negative."
     
  57. Thank you, Bluebell! Every time I think the list is almost ready to send to Peat, more options appear.

    That product does have vegetable oil, but not a lot. I wonder if Peat would prefer a wheat-germ sourced vitamin E in vegetable oil, or soy-sourced vitamin E without any extra oil...

    Also, thanks to Everydayimshufflin on Peatarian for finding a source for ordering OEMINE E. Unfortunately they're low-dose capsules (15mg compared to 700mg in Unique E, for example) and are expensive to order (~$15 for 60 capsules, ~$45 shipping).

    Since both of the wheat-germ sourced vitamin Es we've found have very low doses, I wonder if that's a consequence of the source. Maybe soybean oil allows for more efficient "concentrating".
     
  58. I started reading the Shute brothers and Wilfrid Shute mentioned they used vitamin e from wheat germ oil kept in the refrigerator. Dr. Shute also expressed his worries that nowadays wheat germ is removed during wheat processing and without any dietary compensation a large fraction of people dont receive adequate vitamin e.

    I then looked more into the tocopherol content of different oils and found that there are significant differences in the different tocopherols. The following table is from this interesting dissertation.



    Wheat germ oil + sunflower oil (two oils popular in europe) seems to be significantly more balanced toward alpha-tocopherol, the form that also the Shute brothers saw as the most important.

    In contrast soybean oil + corn oil (the two main oils used in the US) is remarkably dominant in gamma-tocopherols.

    Maybe people who dont respond well to soy-tocopherols might try wheat germ tocopherols and have better responses on that.
     
  59. Thank you, Gabriel, that's really interesting.

    It sounds like alpha tocopherol is the only one that officially counts toward the vitamin E labeling total (according to one of A.C. Grace's pages). So given your chart, I wonder why the wheat germ supplements seem to have such low concentrations. Unless it's just a coincidence with the two we've found so far.
     
  60. Probably a good idea to have one that has higher gamma and another one with higher alpha and change based on how you feel, provided you're not susceptible to reactions by any of the additives.
     
  61. Gabriel, that's a really good chart, thank you!

    With the soy-based vitamin E supplements, they fraction out the alpha-tocopherol, then they concentrate it, so it has a much higher amount of alpha in it than is naturally found in soy oil. This means their IU reading for the capsule is higher, which is measured in alpha tocopherol only.
     
  62. Dan, here's another option for vitamin E.

    It's a water soluble one, that I've ordered and am going to try: Aqua E by Douglas Labs.

    www.douglaslabs.com/pdf/pds/99703.pdf

    I hope it could be very easy to absorb.

    It has these ingredients, (Tocotrienols are there but only 8mg, linoleic acid also tiny amount I would imagine):
    Water, d-alpha-tocopheryl polyethylene glycol-1000 succinate (TPGS), potassium sorbate, sorbate acid, and linoleic acid.

    Polyethylene glycol could be an issue but I hope it is in tiny amounts. I've tried emailing douglas labs to ask how much, but they don't seem to be responding.
     
  63. I'd be concerned about the polyethlene glycol.

    Source
     
  64. Ah OK, thanks for that info, that doesn't sound good.
     
  65. I definitely need to add vitamin E to my sup list...which brand is approved on here??
     
  66. I got some from lotioncrafter. I'm just not sure how to determine the amount. Can I assume that it was a similar amount of IU for a similar amount of oil?

    On a side note, this stuff does feel good on my skin. How much % of the IU do you get when you put it on your skin? I remember reading it here somewhere but I forgot.
     
  67. I'm still up in the air on the answer to that, so I want to ask Peat. The Lotioncrafter one seems like a good "default", but I wonder about Gabriel's comment that alpha-tocopherol may be the most important: Lotioncrafter appears to be high gamma-tocopherol, while the previously Peat-approved (I think) Unique E was high in alpha-tocopherol.

    I'm betting the total tocopherol amount is comparable. But there's the issues with the tocopherol balance that I mentioned above. So you might just want to see how a normal dose affects you, and then consider j's idea of having both high-alpha and high-gamma to experiment with.

    I've never found a reliable source on this, but I've heard that you could expect 20% absorption.
     
  68. Well, I got the Lotion Crafter vitamin E and tried it and my metabolism crashed. I also got really itchy, which to me seems like it effected the liver. Not sure if I took too much, because not really sure how to measure it.
     
  69. Haha, maybe you just had 30,000 IU?
     
  70. Not sure how much I took. I just dipped my finger in slightly and rubbed it on the inside of my wrists.
     
  71. Soy on my wrist is worse for me than taking it orally.
     
  72. Interesting.

    I think I would rather try the wheat germ next. Although, I am gluten intolerant so wondering if that makes a difference.
     
  73. The one from France? Regarding gluten, maybe in that case avoiding it orally might be a good idea, since it would avoid the intestine I think.
     
  74. I am not sure where it was from. Haven't really looked into it yet.

    I know gluten gives me a heck of a time, so definitely need to be careful there.
     
  75. I recently ordered some from lotioncrafter. I supplemented for two days, I didn't see any difference. So I don't plan to supplement despite being rather hypothyroid, unless it was due to not getting the dosage right.
     
  76. Charlie, for comparison did you ever try the unique E from AC Grace (not suggesting you do now, just wondering if you ever had it)? That one is soy too. The unique E made me itchy where I applied and I felt bad.
     
  77. Bluebell, yes I did, that's all I used until now. I would not use is constantly, only occasionally and for like 2 or 3 days at a time then stop again. And I am now realizing that when I used it is when I was having bad itching episodes that drove me crazy and I could not figure out why I was itching. Now I know.

    What to do now? :(
     
  78. Charlie,

    Did you apply your vitamin E undiluted?
    Sometimes the thick and viscous nature of vitamin E could trigger some kind of eczema like symptoms when apply on very sensitive skin.
    Like j. said it could be the soy doing that or any residual allergen but to be sure repeat your experience with diluted vitamin E ( olive oil being probably the best to use but ,if you are prone to skin sensitivities, refined coconut oil or ghee would be probably better though.) and put the mixture on your inner thigh and see if you have any skin reaction.
     
  79. Charlie, depending on whether Wilfrid's experiment tells you anything, I also found Mercola's (expensive) sunflower-sourced vitamin E. Unfortunately it contains tocotrienols, but it could at least be a wheat/soy-free alternative to experiment with.
     
  80. Charlie,

    I forgot to mention that I get the best results when I dilute the vitamin E in warm oil or ghee.
    I just put the oil/ghee in the microwave for few seconds and then add the E.
    It dissolves almost instantly and is perfectly mixed this way :D
     
  81. Wilfrid, it was not a local itch where I put the vitamin E. It was an itching all over my body, and bad! Also, my metabolism crashed.
     
  82. Thanks Dan! I am really not sure which way I am gonna go next. I know I do not want to go through that itching and crashed metabolism again. :lol:
     
  83. I'm sorry you itched like that. I'm convinced that Unique E is a low quality product. I had topical swelling from it, and felt rotten the day I took it internally. It could be that particular brand that's the problem (& lotioncrafter), not necessarily the soy. It could be worth trying others (expensive though I know), or maybe switching to a totally new source of E like sunflower or wheatgerm. A company should start up making proper E and super concentrated, like Ray used in his lab experiments. Made from wheatgerm, zero soy.

    Personally I do believe in the good effects of E, and I'm going to keep trying to find one I tolerate. I'm trying Thorne Ultimate E, 100IU at a time, dissolved in oil at the mo.
     
  84. For anyone trying to follow the full vitamin E discussion, there's some posts specifically about capsule vitamin E's here:
    viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2116
     
  85. And another note for people trying to follow the full discussion: j. got an interesting response from Peat that I interpret as recommending gamma over alpha tocopherols. If my interpretation is correct, that'd be a point in favor of Lotioncrafter.

    Also, I've sent him an e-mail about these issues, so hopefully I can come back with a recommendation from him if he replies.
     
  86. Yeah, but he said something about being similar in milligrams, which gave me the impression that he would like them to be roughly the same amount. Lotioncrafter has like 60% gamma and 11% alpha. However, maybe are bodies aren't so delicate and can manage the non-ideal proportions quite well.

    Oemine has 56% gamma and 19% alpha. Interestingly, both have more delta than alpha.
     
  87. Three vitamin E products from SwansonVitamins.com that DON'T list soy among their ingredients (although sometimes they have it even if they don't list them):

    Vegan Vitamin E w/ Mixed Tocopherols

    FOOD SENSITIVITY: Free of soy, yeast, wheat, gluten, starch, sugar, salt, shellfish, dairy, eggs; animal products, byproducts or derivatives.
    The Vitamin E used in this product is derived from Non-GMO Sunflowers and is, SOY-FREE.

    Sun-E 400

    Not manufactured with wheat, gluten, soy, milk, egg, fish, shellfish or tree nut ingredients.
    Produced in a GMP facility that processes other ingredients containing these allergens.
    Non-GMO, Soy-Free.

    These two seem great. Problem is they're not really mixed tocopherols, as they contain mostly alpha and very little or none of the others.

    These is one product from Swanson which doesn't list soy oil, although that probably just means that they don't add to it, not that it doesn't have it.

    Maximum-Strength Gamma Tocopherol
     
  88. Peat hasn't responded to my e-mail about these issues yet. Has anyone heard back from him when using his "new" Gmail address that's floating around? I'm wondering whether I should've gone with the old e-mail/contact-form, or whether he got my message and isn't prepared to answer.
     
  89. I recently used his gmail address and did not receive a respone. Then sent again using his other email and recieved a response quickly.
     

  90. Yes, I called their 1-800 customer service number several times. Every time, as soon as I mentioned that I noticed a change in color and its effects on me, or when I asked for a Certificate of Analysis, the tone of the conversation became combative and I was sent off. The one time I got a response was along the lines "everyone adds vegetable oil as a filler and our product has the last amount in the industry". When I pointed that those are vague explanations and I would like to see a CA to back up that claim, again I was told that it won't happen. This occurred in 2012, so maybe the client service has changed since then. I have nothing against AC Grace, however I do get suspicious when I ask specific questions and request specific things like a CA, and in return a get a vague (or rude) marketing spiel or lecturing.
     

  91. That may very well be so. I just converted the dosage from the rat study to human dosage based on what the study recommended. The study said that 0.1% gamma-tocopherol-enriched tocopherol mixture was equivalent to 500mg of the same mixture for a human being. So, the dosage that reduced estrogen significantly was 0.5% daily for the rats, which translates to 2500mg for humans. I don't know if 100IU of alpha tocopherol would be equivalent to 100IU of gamma tocopherol (or mixed tocopherols). Judging from the their chemical structure, they are all the same compound essentially (just different isomers of each other), which means same molar mass. I could be wrong though, as I have not done much chemistry in years.
     

  92. As I mentioned in another comment response, it is very possible that I just got a bad/rude representative on the phone. But that happened with 2 different representatives, with calls several weeks apart. What troubled me was that I noticed the bad effect on myself and ONLY THEN started digging into the issue. It's not like I was trying to come up with a reason why AC Grace was lying. Maybe they got defensive when I called and asked for CA. The rep kept trying to convince me that the amount of oil added is very little and I kept saying that this is very relative unless I can see it backed up by some sort of independent analysis certificate. Eventually I was just told that I will not get one and will have to take AC Grace on their word. So, they may be not lying but all other companies that claim selling a high purity tocopherol product have been willing to send me a CA or at least some other certificate done by an independent lab. One company even offered to pay for another test if I wanted to pick a lab myself and have it analyzed again.
    I guess without any CA from AC Grace, all can for certain was that I started reacting badly to their product, thought I could see difference in color and viscosity, asked fr explanation and was told to go pound sand. Upon switching to products from SEVERAL other vendors, I got back the positive results (i.e. lower blood pressure, higher temperature, calmness and even some sedation). That's all I can say at this point. Hopefully, if we get to the bottom of this, AC Grace would turn out to be a solid supplier, but I personally am not using their product for now.
     
  93. Thank you for all the updates, Haidut. I got a response from Peat after using his other e-mail address, and he thinks along similar lines:
    He was responding to my question about about Unique E and its promising competitors, where I specifically pointing out their tocopherol balance, soy/palm/sunflower source, GMO status, and tocotrienol content. Given he mainly addressed mixed tocopherols and thickness, I'm guessing those issues are generally more important to him than soy/GMO/tocotrienols.

    Based on that, I've put up some tentative recommendations for newbies. If nobody disagrees with them, I'll add them to the forum supplement list. I still have A.C. Grace as an option because they're the only one I've found with both potency assays and a capsule version without tons of additives. And I excluded various brands due to high costs, excipients, etc.

    Regarding the most recent products j. found, LEF looks like the best non-soy option (in my opinion). I'm still waiting to hear back from Deva about whether their "vegan capsule" is something undesirable like hypromellose, and Swanson confirmed that their own brand comes from soy.
     
  94. Add brands with high costs, there are people with money. (just my opinion)

    Sometimes the manufacturers do need to spend a lot of money to get quality.