Good quality LED is much healthier light source than incandescent / halogen bulb

[BearWithMe]

Since no one really tests light bulbs for a flicker, I have bought all the super expensive testing equipment myself, bought a bunch of light bulbs and spent couple of days by testing them. Have also measured their color spectrum and some other parameters.

The most surprising result was that incandescent / halogen bulbs do flicker.* Quite a lot, actually.

The second most surprising result was that all modern LEDs from reputable brands have almost undetectable flicker. The intensity of light was flickering by 1-5 lumens. Halogen bulbs were flickering by up to 300 lumens, depending on their power. That's ~100x more flicker!

Also, the color spectrum is much better with LED bulbs.

2200 or 2700 kelvin LED bulbs produce almost zero blue light. Incandescent bulbs produce much more blue and even ultraviolet light (the cons of blue light very much outweight the benefits of infrared light, in my opinion)

Considering all the aspects, I liked LEDs made for IKEA and Jysk the most. They performed the best and cost literally penies. Since I'm in Europe, I can't speak for US retail chains, sorry.

Bulbs made by GE or Philips performed very well, but they are much more expensive than the above. The price is not justified.

I was not very impressed by Osram and LIDL bulbs.

Bulbs from eBay and Aliexpress were mixed bag. Some were absolutely horible. Some were really, really good. Even some of the very cheap ones. But even the worst LEDs did not flicker much more than incandescent bulbs.

*Flickering of incandescent bulbs is much less of a problem in countries with 120V/60Hz power system

 

[BearWithMe]

I'm kicking myself for avoiding LED bulbs for so long.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Thanks. They still lack some of the spectra that make incandescents and Halogen so worthwhile, especially orange and everything from there ... less blue is a plus

 

[mrchibbs]

Maybe you should write an article about it.

I've never felt good with LEDs, and dirty electricity seemed a real problem. It's good to know some don't flicker much.

Since you have the equipment, maybe you can write an overview that is detailed and can help others.

 

[Peater]

Yes if the LED lamp has a quality rectifier it should be virtually flicker free

I don't think they can ever match the spectrum though, as that includes infra red which is heat.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Red leds are okay but I don’t enjoy led lighting and there is evidence that it is harmful.

 

[BearWithMe]

Thanks. They still lack some of the spectra that make incandescents and Halogen so worthwhile, especially orange and everything from there ... less blue is a plus

That's actually very good argument. Was thinking about this a lot, and also did some research on this.

The problem is, you need a loooot of orange / red / infrared light for it to have any positive health effect. No bulb mounted on ceiling can deliver so much light, ever.

But very little blue light in the evening is enough to f**k up your sleep.

It all comes down to how you use the bulb. I want to be able to move around the house in the evening, and I want the bulb not to f**k up my sleep. I don't need any additional orange / red / infrared light since I'm getting plenty of direct sunshine every day. So for me, LED bulb is perfect.

If you want to use the bulb as a light supplement, you need incandescent / halogen. But then you need reeeeeally powerful bulb (we are talking 200W as a bare minimum), and you need it to place it reeeeally close to you, otherwise it won't work.

 

[BearWithMe]

Also, there is a possibility that the damages made by flicker of incandescent bulbs might outweight the benefits of full spectrum light.

 

[Don]

Interesting.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

That's actually very good argument. Was thinking about this a lot, and also did some research on this.

The problem is, you need a loooot of orange / red / infrared light for it to have any positive health effect. No bulb mounted on ceiling can deliver so much light, ever.

But very little blue light in the evening is enough to f**k up your sleep.

It all comes down to how you use the bulb. I want to be able to move around the house in the evening, and I want the bulb not to f**k up my sleep. I don't need any additional orange / red / infrared light since I'm getting plenty of direct sunshine every day. So for me, LED bulb is perfect.

If you want to use the bulb as a light supplement, you need incandescent / halogen. But then you need reeeeeally powerful bulb (we are talking 200W as a bare minimum), and you need it to place it reeeeally close to you, otherwise it won't work.

Phillips Vitalux provides me personally that in winter. Peat thinks incandescents Normal power also is beneficial already.

Anyway, flickering is an issue. And since we speaking of taking away the big offenders people should consider their tv, mobile and computer screens and see to it they don’t Flickr

 

[BearWithMe]

Phillips Vitalux provides me personally that in winter. Peat thinks incandescents Normal power also is beneficial already.

Anyway, flickering is an issue. And since we speaking of taking away the big offenders people should consider their tv, mobile and computer screens and see to it they don’t Flickr

I have measured a lot of screens, too!

The flicker and blue light really seems to be correlated to price of the device.

The best by far was Bravia LED TV. I wasn't able to detect any flicker at all. It was better than all the light bulbs I have tested. You can also adjust color temperature / balance on this TV, and when you set it to "Warm", it produce very little blue light.

I have two HP laptops. One very expensive mobile workstation, one ultra low-end budget laptop. The expensive one has no flicker when powered by battery, and very little flicker when powered by AC adapter. The cheap one was by far the worst thing I have measured, both flicker-wise and by the amount of blue light.

I will not use the cheap one again.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

I have side effects from narrow-band LED lights, and none from wide spectrum halogen bulbs.

 

[BearWithMe]

I have side effects from narrow-band LED lights, and none from wide spectrum halogen bulbs.

Have you considered it might be placebo / nocebo? Because I felt the same, but after my little experiment, I feel exactly the opposite.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

I have measured a lot of screens, too!

The flicker and blue light really seems to be correlated to price of the device.

The best by far was Bravia LED TV. I wasn't able to detect any flicker at all. It was better than all the light bulbs I have tested. You can also adjust color temperature / balance on this TV, and when you set it to "Warm", it produce very little blue light.

I have two HP laptops. One very expensive mobile workstation, one ultra low-end budget laptop. The expensive one has no flicker when powered by battery, and very little flicker when powered by AC adapter. The cheap one was by far the worst thing I have measured, both flicker-wise and by the amount of blue light.

I will not use the cheap one again.

Thanks, very good info

 

[BearWithMe]

Thanks, very good info

You are welcome!

I don't have a smartphone, but I will try to gather some popular models from my friends and measure them. Also some more TVs and computers.

I suspect the smartphones will have zero flicker because they are powered by direct current from battery

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Have you considered it might be placebo / nocebo? Because I felt the same, but after my little experiment, I feel exactly the opposite.

660 nm lights consistently ruin my sleep.

830 nm gives me tinnitus and a weird spaced out / brain fog feeling.

The LGS1 triggers some kind of NO release that causes bloating.

This was when I was using these on my head for hair loss.

On a whole spectrum light I just feel mostly no effects.

 

[Dr. B]

I have measured a lot of screens, too!

The flicker and blue light really seems to be correlated to price of the device.

The best by far was Bravia LED TV. I wasn't able to detect any flicker at all. It was better than all the light bulbs I have tested. You can also adjust color temperature / balance on this TV, and when you set it to "Warm", it produce very little blue light.

I have two HP laptops. One very expensive mobile workstation, one ultra low-end budget laptop. The expensive one has no flicker when powered by battery, and very little flicker when powered by AC adapter. The cheap one was by far the worst thing I have measured, both flicker-wise and by the amount of blue light.

I will not use the cheap one again.

what do you mean by flicker, is that when the screen flashes on/off very briefly? how does the flickering cause bad health effects with laptops or with incandescent light?

 

[BearWithMe]

660 nm lights consistently ruin my sleep.

830 nm gives me tinnitus and a weird spaced out / brain fog feeling.

The LGS1 triggers some kind of NO release that causes bloating.

This was when I was using these on my head for hair loss.

On a whole spectrum light I just feel mostly no effects.

Hmmm, interesting. I would be very curious if these bulbs flickered and if you would have the same symptoms if they would not.

These special bulbs are much likely to flicker than bulbs intended for home lighting use.

 

[BearWithMe]

what do you mean by flicker, is that when the screen flashes on/off very briefly? how does the flickering cause bad health effects with laptops or with incandescent light?

Yes exactly. The light/screen goes on and off approximately 100 times per second.

In view of the growing concern over LED flicker, in 2008 the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) P1789 committee was formed to research upon LED flicker issue and develop recommended practice [8,16]. The committee identified the following major adverse effects of flicker [10,12]:
Photo epilepsy;
Increased repetitive behaviour among people suffering from autism
Migraine or intense paroxysmal headache often associated with visual disturbances and nausea
Asthenopia (eyestrain with nonspecific symptoms), including fatigue, eyestrain, blurred vision, headache, and diminished sight-related task performance.
The committee also identified anxiety, panic attack, and vertigo as potential effects of flicker but these have received little attention [10].

https://jcdr.net/articles/PDF/12880/41491_220419_41491_CE[Ra1]_F(KM)_PF1(AJ_SHU)_PFA(SL)_PN(SL).pdf

And this:

The effect of flicker from fluorescent lights on mate choice in captive birds

Download Citation | The effect of flicker from fluorescent lights on mate choice in captive birds | The visual systems of birds are hypothesized to have higher temporal resolution than those of humans, suggesting that they may be able to perceive... | Find, read and cite all the research you...

www.researchgate.net

Also this is super-interesting:

Table 2​

Documented effects of flickering artificial lights on animals.

Species common name​	Species scientific name​	Effects​	Reference​
Honeybee​	Apis mellifera​	Behavioural​	[22]​
Minute Pirate Bug​	Orius tristicolor​	Behavioural​	[23]​
White Fly​	Aleyrodidae​	Behavioural​	[24]​
Southern House Mosquito​	Culex quinquefasciatus​	Behavioural​	[25]​
Housefly​	Musca domestica​	Behavioural​	[25]​
Pink boll worm​	Pectinophora gossypiela​	Behavioural​	[25]​
House cricket​	Acheta domesticcus​	Behavioural​	[25]​
Housefly​	Musca domestica​	Behavioural​	[26]​
European Starling​	Sturnus vulgaris​	Physiological​	[27]​
European Starling​	Sturnus vulgaris​	Behavioural​	[28]​
European Starling​	Sturnus vulgaris​	Possible Physiological stress​	[29]​
European Starling​	Sturnus vulgaris​	Physiological stress & behavioral​	[27]​
European Starling​	Sturnus vulgaris​	Behavioural​	[30]​
European Starling​	Sturnus vulgaris​	Physiological stress & behavioral​	[31]​
Albino Rat​	Rattus norvegicus​	Physiological stress​	[32]​
Laboratory Mouse​	Mus musculus​	Visual​	[33]​

Potential Biological and Ecological Effects of Flickering Artificial Light

Organisms have evolved under stable natural lighting regimes, employing cues from these to govern key ecological processes. However, the extent and density of artificial lighting within the environment has increased recently, causing widespread alteration ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[BearWithMe]

Another way to further mitigate the damaging effects of artificial lighting is to use the lowest power bulbs possible, and to use bulbs with golden tint.

I have put 2W tinted bulbs all over my house and they are enough to safely navigate around and do basic work in the evenings. I can even comfortably read under that bulb.

My sleep has never been better, and the bulbs looks cool.