Good Dose Of Creatine ? Not For Pumping Iron

Frankdee20

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Basically, it can elevate mood, and maybe feel Androgenic. Just curious what’s a good starting dose that doesn’t require 500 thousand grams a day to load up lol ?
 
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A 3-4 gram dose is plenty for the cognitive benefits and even most of the size (moderate) and strength (mild) benefits. Loading is not necessary, but at higher doses you will notice your muscles hold onto more carbs and water, causing newbies to get excited.
 
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Basically, it can elevate mood, and maybe feel Androgenic. Just curious what’s a good starting dose that doesn’t require 500 thousand grams a day to load up lol ?

Experiments used up to 20g/d,which isnt needed,i would rec for 5g/d permanently,without loading dosage.Maximum 10g/d.There is some type of repression going on,and if you drop your substitution,you will produce less for up to six months.But it is a very safe and thoroughly researched compound,Creapure is said to be highest Q.For comparison,it is stated that two pounds of raw beef contain 5grams of Creatine.Depends how much we believe we have evolved smaller necessary amounts.I guess not much,and 5g(lol) to 10g is physiologic exogenous intake.
 
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Frankdee20

Frankdee20

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Experiments used up to 20g/d,which isnt needed,i would rec for 5g/d permanently,without loading dosage.Maximum 10g/d.There is some type of repression going on,and if you drop your substitution,you will produce less for up to six months.But it is a very safe and thoroughly researched compound,Creapure is said to be highest Q.For comparison,it is stated that two pounds of raw beef contain 5grams of Creatine.Depends how much we believe we have evolved smaller necessary amounts.I guess not much,and 5g(lol) to 10g is physiologic exogenous intake.

Nice Thanks
 
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Experiments used up to 20g/d,which isnt needed,i would rec for 5g/d permanently,without loading dosage.Maximum 10g/d.There is some type of repression going on,and if you drop your substitution,you will produce less for up to six months.But it is a very safe and thoroughly researched compound,Creapure is said to be highest Q.For comparison,it is stated that two pounds of raw beef contain 5grams of Creatine.Depends how much we believe we have evolved smaller necessary amounts.I guess not much,and 5g(lol) to 10g is physiologic exogenous intake.

Nice writeup Tristan, agree with all. I imagine the 20 gram studies were looking at performance benefits rather than cognitive. If the body can only synthesize 1 to 2 gram of creatine per day, even just supplementing that amount per day should give most of the benefits commonly cited. Extreme loading phases are unnecessary if you plan to take a moderate amount daily and indefinitely. Herring should be another optimal food source of creatine.
 
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Nice writeup Tristan, agree with all. I imagine the 20 gram studies were looking at performance benefits rather than cognitive. If the body can only synthesize 1 to 2 gram of creatine per day, even just supplementing that amount per day should give most of the benefits commonly cited. Extreme loading phases are unnecessary if you plan to take a moderate amount daily and indefinitely. Herring should be another optimal food source of creatine.

indeed,i also believe that the 20gram interventions are unnecessary or were conducted for dose-ranging,or there to show proof-of-concept.I was also in the lower dosage camp myself,but Chris masterjohn remarked that 3 grams can still be too low for maintenance in select individuals,and i began to search for more proofing of dosages,but info is still contradictory,and the higher dosages of 10 to 20 grams showed more benefit in active CNS-Disease in a couple of studies,even longer term,e.g. six months.
 

Jib

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I do up to 5 grams a day.

Interesting about higher doses. I may consider that. I only have one kidney and I'm not sure if that would affect the safety of higher doses or not.

I also recommend taking Beta-alanine with it. A few grams a day. It's great stuff. Seems that beta-alanine and creatine have a synergistic effect on improving performance and cognitive function, at least in my experience.
 
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I do up to 5 grams a day.

Interesting about higher doses. I may consider that. I only have one kidney and I'm not sure if that would affect the safety of higher doses or not.

I also recommend taking Beta-alanine with it. A few grams a day. It's great stuff. Seems that beta-alanine and creatine have a synergistic effect on improving performance and cognitive function, at least in my experience.

I believe that 5grams are fine if the kidney is in fine shape.at the bottom are references,that talk in more detail about the safety considerations.





Is creatine safe for your kidneys?


In people with healthy kidneys, long-term creatine supplementation is safe, but there are no long-term creatine studies in people with kidney issues. For these people, using a low dose of creatine (if any) would be prudent.
Our evidence-based analysis features 24 unique references to scientific papers.


Written by Michael Hull
Last Updated: Oct 27, 2019
Tags:

Why is this a concern?
Considering creatine’s popularity as a sports supplement, it isn’t surprising that concerns have been raised about potential adverse effects — especially on the kidneys.

Why the kidneys?

To store the creatine you ingest, and the creatine your liver produces, your skeletal muscles,Brosnan JT, Brosnan ME. Creatine: endogenous metabolite, dietary, and therapeutic supplement.

Annu Rev Nutr (2007)" data-persistent="true">[1] your brain,Braissant O, et al. Creatine deficiency syndromes and the importance of creatine synthesis in the brain.

Amino Acids (2011)" data-persistent="true">[2] and other tissues transform it into phosphocreatine. And when they use their stores to recycle adenosine triphosphate (ATP), often called life’s energy currency, one of the byproducts is creatinine.

Your kidneys excrete this creatinine unchanged. If their function declines, so does creatinine clearance. Creatinine clearance can be estimated from a blood test or measured through a combination of blood test and 24-hour urine sample.

Creatinine blood levels are the most commonly used indicator of kidney function: it is assumed that if your levels are high, your kidneys haven’t done their job.

creatinekidney_table1.png


Your skeletal muscles make for >90% of your creatine stores,Brosnan JT, Brosnan ME. Creatine: endogenous metabolite, dietary, and therapeutic supplement.

Annu Rev Nutr (2007)" data-persistent="true">[1] so the more muscle you have, and the more you use it, the more creatinine you produce.Samra M, Abcar AC. False estimates of elevated creatinine.

Perm J (2012)" data-persistent="true">[3]Baxmann AC, et al. Influence of muscle mass and physical activity on serum and urinary creatinine and serum cystatin C.

Clin J Am Soc Nephrol (2008)" data-persistent="true">[4] Also, greater animal protein intake has been associated with greater muscle massMorton RW, et al. A systematic review, meta-analysis and meta-regression of the effect of protein supplementation on resistance training-induced gains in muscle mass and strength in healthy adults.

Br J Sports Med (2018)" data-persistent="true">[5]Sahni S, et al. Higher Protein Intake Is Associated with Higher Lean Mass and Quadriceps Muscle Strength in Adult Men and Women.

J Nutr (2015)" data-persistent="true">[6] and higher creatinine excretion.Alexandrov NV, et al. Dietary Protein Sources and Muscle Mass over the Life Course: The Lifelines Cohort Study.

Nutrients (2018)" data-persistent="true">[7] And yes, supplemental creatine can increase your blood levels of creatinine beyond the normal ranges;Williamson L, New D. How the use of creatine supplements can elevate serum creatinine in the absence of underlying kidney pathology.

BMJ Case Rep (2014)" data-persistent="true">[8]McCall W, Persky AM. Pharmacokinetics of creatine.

Subcell Biochem (2007)" data-persistent="true">[9] but can we really conclude your kidneys are being damaged?

creatinekidney_table2.png
Concerns have been raised over creatine supplementation because it can increase creatinine levels beyond the normal range — a marker of kidney damage.
The evidence
For people with healthy kidneys
The evidence collected in our creatine Human Effect Matrix shows that creatine supplementation does not affect any measure of kidney health apart from creatinine levels. Moreover, scientific reviews on both the long- and short-term safety of supplemental creatine have consistently found no adverse effects on kidney function.Poortmans JR, Francaux M. Adverse effects of creatine supplementation: fact or fiction?.

Sports Med (2000)" data-persistent="true">[10]Farquhar WB, Zambraski EJ. Effects of creatine use on the athlete's kidney.

Curr Sports Med Rep (2002)" data-persistent="true">[11]Pline KA, Smith CL. The effect of creatine intake on renal function.

Ann Pharmacother (2005)" data-persistent="true">[12]Francaux M, Poortmans JR. Side effects of creatine supplementation in athletes.

Int J Sports Physiol Perform (2006)" data-persistent="true">[13]Persky AM, Rawson ES. Safety of creatine supplementation.

Subcell Biochem (2007)" data-persistent="true">[14]Kim HJ, et al. Studies on the safety of creatine supplementation.

Amino Acids (2011)" data-persistent="true">[15]Gualano B, et al. In sickness and in health: the widespread application of creatine supplementation.

Amino Acids (2012)" data-persistent="true">[16]Kreider RB, et al. International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: safety and efficacy of creatine supplementation in exercise, sport, and medicine.

J Int Soc Sports Nutr (2017)" data-persistent="true">[17]

Most healthy people can reap the performance benefits of creatine with just 3–5 g/day, but creatine nonresponders and people with high muscle mass may benefit from 10 g.Kreider RB, et al. International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: safety and efficacy of creatine supplementation in exercise, sport, and medicine.

J Int Soc Sports Nutr (2017)" data-persistent="true">[17] Doses >10 g/day have been found not to impair kidney function, but there are fewer long-term trials on such high doses.Kreider RB, et al. International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: safety and efficacy of creatine supplementation in exercise, sport, and medicine.

J Int Soc Sports Nutr (2017)" data-persistent="true">[17]

In healthy adults, doses ≤5 g/day are unlikely to increase creatinine levels significantly,Pline KA, Smith CL. The effect of creatine intake on renal function.

Ann Pharmacother (2005)" data-persistent="true">[12]Ropero-Miller JD, et al. Effect of oral creatine supplementation on random urine creatinine, pH, and specific gravity measurements.

Clin Chem (2000)" data-persistent="true">[18]Persky AM, Rawson ES. Safety of creatine supplementation.

Subcell Biochem (2007)" data-persistent="true">[14] but higher doses might cause a false positive — an increase in creatinine that may be misinterpreted as a sign of kidney damage.Pline KA, Smith CL. The effect of creatine intake on renal function.

Ann Pharmacother (2005)" data-persistent="true">[12]Poortmans JR, Francaux M. Long-term oral creatine supplementation does not impair renal function in healthy athletes.

Med Sci Sports Exerc (1999)" data-persistent="true">[19]Williamson L, New D. How the use of creatine supplements can elevate serum creatinine in the absence of underlying kidney pathology.

BMJ Case Rep (2014)" data-persistent="true">[8] Most studies, however, have noted only a small increase in creatinine levels even with doses ≈20 g/day.Pline KA, Smith CL. The effect of creatine intake on renal function.

Ann Pharmacother (2005)" data-persistent="true">[12]Poortmans JR, Francaux M. Long-term oral creatine supplementation does not impair renal function in healthy athletes.

Med Sci Sports Exerc (1999)" data-persistent="true">[19]Mihic S, et al. Acute creatine loading increases fat-free mass, but does not affect blood pressure, plasma creatinine, or CK activity in men and women.

Med Sci Sports Exerc (2000)" data-persistent="true">[20]

Although taking creatine may increase creatinine levels, long- and short-term studies have found that creatine doses ≤10g/day don’t impair kidney health in people with healthy kidneys.
For people with kidney issues
In people whose kidneys don’t function optimally, supplemental creatine seems to be safe, too.

One case study found that a man’s single kidney suffered no harm from 20 g/day for 5 days followed by 5 g/day for 30 days.Gualano B, et al. Effect of short-term high-dose creatine supplementation on measured GFR in a young man with a single kidney.

Am J Kidney Dis (2010)" data-persistent="true">[21] An RCT in type 2 diabetics with various stages of kidney disease showed no significant decline in kidney function from 5 g/day for 12 weeks.Gualano B, et al. Creatine supplementation does not impair kidney function in type 2 diabetic patients: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, clinical trial.

Eur J Appl Physiol (2011)" data-persistent="true">[22] Two clinical trials saw no detriment in people with kidney disease.Taes YE, et al. Creatine supplementation does not decrease total plasma homocysteine in chronic hemodialysis patients.

Kidney Int (2004)" data-persistent="true">[23]Shelmadine BD, Hudson GM, Buford TW et al.. The effects of supplementation of creatine on total homocysteine.

J Ren Nurs. (2012)" data-persistent="true">[24]

However, studies in people with suboptimal kidney function are fewer than in healthy people, and they are short-term. People with kidney dysfunction, or at risk for developing kidney dysfunction (e.g., people with diabetes, high blood pressure, or family history of kidney disease; people over sixty; and non-Hispanic blacks), might wish to forgo creatine, or otherwise take only the lowest effective dose (3 g/day)Kreider RB, et al. International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: safety and efficacy of creatine supplementation in exercise, sport, and medicine.

J Int Soc Sports Nutr (2017)" data-persistent="true">[17] after talking to their doctor.

Finally, let’s mention that, since creatine can increase water retention, it could theoretically harm people whose kidney disorder is being treated with diuretics, which cause water loss.Kreider RB, et al. International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: safety and efficacy of creatine supplementation in exercise, sport, and medicine.

J Int Soc Sports Nutr (2017)" data-persistent="true">[17]

Limited short-term evidence indicates that people with suboptimal kidney function may safely supplement with creatine. However, long-term studies are lacking.
Pro tip: test before supplementing
While creatine is unlikely to hurt your kidneys, its ability to raise creatinine levels may mask underlying issues. Consider having your creatinine levels tested before you start taking creatine, so as to get a baseline and check up on your kidney function. If you are already taking creatine yet plan to have your creatinine tested, cease supplementation 3 weeks prior to testing so as to prevent a false positive.

Bottom line
creatinekidney_table3.png



Short- and long-term creatine supplementation does not appear to impair kidney function in people with healthy kidneys. Limited short-term evidence has found creatine to be safe for people with suboptimal kidney function, but caution is warranted. When caused by supplemental creatine, elevated creatinine levels are not indicative of kidney damage. Creatine’s ability to raise creatinine levels may mask underlying issues, however, so if you plan to check up on your kidney function by having your creatinine levels tested, stop taking creatine at least 3 weeks before the test.
For more information on creatine, see our dedicated supplement page. If you are looking into creatine for fitness purposes, see our Muscle Gain & Exercise Performance Supplement Guide or our Fitness Guide (which contains our Muscle Gain & Exercise Performance Supplement Guide).

Related Articles
References
  1. ^ a b Brosnan JT, Brosnan ME. Creatine: endogenous metabolite, dietary, and therapeutic supplement. Annu Rev Nutr. (2007)
  2. ^ Braissant O, et al. Creatine deficiency syndromes and the importance of creatine synthesis in the brain. Amino Acids. (2011)
  3. ^ Samra M, Abcar AC. False estimates of elevated creatinine. Perm J. (2012)
  4. ^ Baxmann AC, et al. Influence of muscle mass and physical activity on serum and urinary creatinine and serum cystatin C. Clin J Am Soc Nephrol. (2008)
  5. ^ Morton RW, et al. A systematic review, meta-analysis and meta-regression of the effect of protein supplementation on resistance training-induced gains in muscle mass and strength in healthy adults. Br J Sports Med. (2018)
  6. ^ Sahni S, et al. Higher Protein Intake Is Associated with Higher Lean Mass and Quadriceps Muscle Strength in Adult Men and Women. J Nutr. (2015)
  7. ^ Alexandrov NV, et al. Dietary Protein Sources and Muscle Mass over the Life Course: The Lifelines Cohort Study. Nutrients. (2018)
  8. ^ a b Williamson L, New D. How the use of creatine supplements can elevate serum creatinine in the absence of underlying kidney pathology. BMJ Case Rep. (2014)
  9. ^ McCall W, Persky AM. Pharmacokinetics of creatine. Subcell Biochem. (2007)
  10. ^ Poortmans JR, Francaux M. Adverse effects of creatine supplementation: fact or fiction?. Sports Med. (2000)
  11. ^ Farquhar WB, Zambraski EJ. Effects of creatine use on the athlete's kidney. Curr Sports Med Rep. (2002)
  12. ^ a b c d Pline KA, Smith CL. The effect of creatine intake on renal function. Ann Pharmacother. (2005)
  13. ^ Francaux M, Poortmans JR. Side effects of creatine supplementation in athletes. Int J Sports Physiol Perform. (2006)
  14. ^ a b Persky AM, Rawson ES. Safety of creatine supplementation. Subcell Biochem. (2007)
  15. ^ Kim HJ, et al. Studies on the safety of creatine supplementation. Amino Acids. (2011)
  16. ^ Gualano B, et al. In sickness and in health: the widespread application of creatine supplementation. Amino Acids. (2012)
  17. ^ a b c d e Kreider RB, et al. International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: safety and efficacy of creatine supplementation in exercise, sport, and medicine. J Int Soc Sports Nutr. (2017)
  18. ^ Ropero-Miller JD, et al. Effect of oral creatine supplementation on random urine creatinine, pH, and specific gravity measurements. Clin Chem. (2000)
  19. ^ a b Poortmans JR, Francaux M. Long-term oral creatine supplementation does not impair renal function in healthy athletes. Med Sci Sports Exerc. (1999)
  20. ^ Mihic S, et al. Acute creatine loading increases fat-free mass, but does not affect blood pressure, plasma creatinine, or CK activity in men and women. Med Sci Sports Exerc. (2000)
  21. ^ Gualano B, et al. Effect of short-term high-dose creatine supplementation on measured GFR in a young man with a single kidney. Am J Kidney Dis. (2010)
  22. ^ Gualano B, et al. Creatine supplementation does not impair kidney function in type 2 diabetic patients: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, clinical trial. Eur J Appl Physiol. (2011)
  23. ^ Taes YE, et al. Creatine supplementation does not decrease total plasma homocysteine in chronic hemodialysis patients. Kidney Int. (2004)
  24. ^ Shelmadine BD, Hudson GM, Buford TW et al.. The effects of supplementation of creatine on total homocysteine. J Ren Nurs.. (2012)
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