Gonadorelin vs HCG: which is best for TRT?

[Hans]

Gonadorelin vs HCG: which is best for TRT? » TESTONATION

HCG vs Gonadorelin. I'm going to show you which is best for TRT, testicular shrinkage, fertility or maximizing testosterone naturally.

men-elite.com

 

[Johhnyb]

Hey man thanks for this interesting read. I don’t know enough about peptides, and I really want to get to grips with them.

I would have been interested to see a comparison between Kisspeptin and Gonadorelin.

 

[Motorneuron]

I've always wondered if it was easier to "hack" our ECU and ensure that the HPGT axis works the same when we are injecting Testosterone or DHT from the outside? why does it still seem like a utopia?

 

[Validus]

Gonadorelin vs HCG: which is best for TRT? » TESTONATION

HCG vs Gonadorelin. I'm going to show you which is best for TRT, testicular shrinkage, fertility or maximizing testosterone naturally.

men-elite.com

Why does your article begin with "THE new Gonadorelin"? "Is the new Gonadorelin better than the true and trusted HCG?"

Is there a new form or version compared to previous forms?

 

[Hans]

Why does your article begin with "THE new Gonadorelin"? "Is the new Gonadorelin better than the true and trusted HCG?"

Is there a new form or version compared to previous forms?

Sorry for the confusion. I meant newly used. Meaning it's being used in the place of HCG now. So it's more "new".

 

[Validus]

Sorry for the confusion. I meant newly used. Meaning it's being used in the place of HCG now. So it's more "new".

Got it. What are your thoughts on Kisspeptin-10? Seems even further upstream to gonadorelin. I've landed on injecting kisspeptin-10 sub-q every 2-3 hours as a compromise because of the below. It also "feels" slightly more effective than gonadorelin.

I've tried hCG, gonadorelin and kisspeptin-10. I have horrible side effects to hCG. At efficacious doses, it seems to very quickly make my aldosterone, renin, angiotensin system go insane. Very high blood pressure, water retention, headaches, insomnia etc.

This isnt related to my estrogen, as I've played around with attempting hcg for 8 years with a variety of protocols and have tested my estradiol during these tests. I've done 250 ius every other day, 3 times per week, 500 twice per week...the only protocol that doesnt make me feel horrible is 60 iu's every day, but at that low dose, there seems to be no benefit to improving testicular atrophy or function.

Any ideas what may be driving my negative experiences with hcg?

 

[Hans]

Got it. What are your thoughts on Kisspeptin-10? Seems even further upstream to gonadorelin. I've landed on injecting kisspeptin-10 sub-q every 2-3 hours as a compromise because of the below. It also "feels" slightly more effective than gonadorelin.

I've tried hCG, gonadorelin and kisspeptin-10. I have horrible side effects to hCG. At efficacious doses, it seems to very quickly make my aldosterone, renin, angiotensin system go insane. Very high blood pressure, water retention, headaches, insomnia etc.

This isnt related to my estrogen, as I've played around with attempting hcg for 8 years with a variety of protocols and have tested my estradiol during these tests. I've done 250 ius every other day, 3 times per week, 500 twice per week...the only protocol that doesnt make me feel horrible is 60 iu's every day, but at that low dose, there seems to be no benefit to improving testicular atrophy or function.

Any ideas what may be driving my negative experiences with hcg?

There isn't much human evidence on kisspeptin and the animal studies I've seen do infusions over a certain time period. Plus, you likely have to dose it very frequently, like you are doing, which is very inconvenient for most people. Ideally, a pump release would have been ideal, but I don't think that exists.
"Adrenal cortex hyperfunction may occasionally be due to stimulation of steroid hormone production by LH/hCG." (R) That's likely what happened in your case.

 

[Validus]

There isn't much human evidence on kisspeptin and the animal studies I've seen do infusions over a certain time period. Plus, you likely have to dose it very frequently, like you are doing, which is very inconvenient for most people. Ideally, a pump release would have been ideal, but I don't think that exists.
"Adrenal cortex hyperfunction may occasionally be due to stimulation of steroid hormone production by LH/hCG." (R) That's likely what happened in your case.

I've come to similar conclusions about LH causing hyperstimulation of the adrenal cortex. Do you have any idea why and more importantly, how to possibly mitigate the effects so I can use hcg?

 

[Vanset]

I've come to similar conclusions about LH causing hyperstimulation of the adrenal cortex. Do you have any idea why and more importantly, how to possibly mitigate the effects so I can use hcg?

I remember you saying that you were playing around with AIs (which ones?) Did you also have the same side effects? AI will strongly ramp up LH production as well, especially something brutally strong like Letrozole

 

[Validus]

I remember you saying that you were playing around with AIs (which ones?) Did you also have the same side effects? AI will strongly ramp up LH production as well, especially something brutally strong like Letrozole

All separately, I've used anastrazole/arimidex, clomid and novladex/tamoxifen, but never combined. I respond OK to anastrazole, as long as I don't crush my estrogen. Clomid makes me very emotional and moody. Nolvadex makes me SHBG go very high, but emotionally I'm ok. I got off of it though because I began to notice a significant deterioration in my vision while I was taking it and also learned it can cause brain damage over time.

I've also attempted to use hcg on multiple occasions without any AI's and have had the same effect.

What's strange is growing up and going through puberty when I assume my LH/FSH were high, I never had any experiences similar to how hcg makes me feel now.

Thanks for your post - Any ideas?

 

[Motorneuron]

All separately, I've used anastrazole/arimidex, clomid and novladex/tamoxifen, but never combined. I respond OK to anastrazole, as long as I don't crush my estrogen. Clomid makes me very emotional and moody. Nolvadex makes me SHBG go very high, but emotionally I'm ok. I got off of it though because I began to notice a significant deterioration in my vision while I was taking it and also learned it can cause brain damage over time.

I've also attempted to use hcg on multiple occasions without any AI's and have had the same effect.

What's strange is growing up and going through puberty when I assume my LH/FSH were high, I never had any experiences similar to how hcg makes me feel now.

Thanks for your post - Any ideas?

Have you ever used Arimistane? very generally when LH and FHS are high GNRH is low and vice versa.

 

[Vanset]

All separately, I've used anastrazole/arimidex, clomid and novladex/tamoxifen, but never combined. I respond OK to anastrazole, as long as I don't crush my estrogen. Clomid makes me very emotional and moody. Nolvadex makes me SHBG go very high, but emotionally I'm ok. I got off of it though because I began to notice a significant deterioration in my vision while I was taking it and also learned it can cause brain damage over time.

I've also attempted to use hcg on multiple occasions without any AI's and have had the same effect.

What's strange is growing up and going through puberty when I assume my LH/FSH were high, I never had any experiences similar to how hcg makes me feel now.

Thanks for your post - Any ideas?

Very strange indeed. I assume that since you've been playing around with HCG for 8 years and have tried variety of protocols then you've played around with HCG + AI. If it is LH then all of these treatments would cause similar side effects so it must be something that's specific to HCG? I have seen some studies that just happened to test both gonadotropins and dhea/dhea-s and there never was any significant increase in adrenal steroids from increased LH. What's your natty E2?

 

[Validus]

Have you ever used Arimistane? very generally when LH and FHS are high GNRH is low and vice versa.

I've never used Arimistane. How are you suggesting it would be helpful - in conjunction with hcg to mitigate the side effects?

 

[Validus]

Very strange indeed. I assume that since you've been playing around with HCG for 8 years and have tried variety of protocols then you've played around with HCG + AI. If it is LH then all of these treatments would cause similar side effects so it must be something that's specific to HCG? I have seen some studies that just happened to test both gonadotropins and dhea/dhea-s and there never was any significant increase in adrenal steroids from increased LH. What's your natty E2?

What did the studies show? I unfortunately don't know my natural estradiol . My first doctor was an incompetent fool and only tested total testosterone. He didnt look at free T, e2, LH/FSH, SHBG, albumin etc.

I have played around with an insane combination of hcg...I've tried combining it lately too with azilsartan, the most powerful angiotensin II receptor blocker, and had the same side effects. The only dose I can tolerate of hcg is about 60 iu's per day, but then it doesnt help with testicular atrophy at all.

 

[Vanset]

What did the studies show? I unfortunately don't know my natural estradiol . My first doctor was an incompetent fool and only tested total testosterone. He didnt look at free T, e2, LH/FSH, SHBG, albumin etc.

I have played around with an insane combination of hcg...I've tried combining it lately too with azilsartan, the most powerful angiotensin II receptor blocker, and had the same side effects. The only dose I can tolerate of hcg is about 60 iu's per day, but then it doesnt help with testicular atrophy at all.

Oh yeah sorry. I didn't look that much into it. For example I remember reading some studies of various aromatase inhibitors that tracked gonadotropins and dhea/dhea-s and there was either no increase or very small increase in these adrenal steroids. All within daily variation tbh. Obviously gonadotropins are going to be significantly increased with AI use. I have also seen some before-and-afters with SERMs like Clomid and DHEA-S usually stays the same.

If anyone has saved some research on this topic and is willing to share I'm highly interested.

High blood pressure, water retention, insomnia etc. from HCG use to me sounds like high estrogen, but you said it was normal so I'm not sure.

 

[Hans]

I've come to similar conclusions about LH causing hyperstimulation of the adrenal cortex. Do you have any idea why and more importantly, how to possibly mitigate the effects so I can use hcg?

HCG stimulates the thyroid as well as the adrenals, perhaps it also stimulates parathyroid hormone release. You're maybe just very sensitive to the sides of HCG and I'm not sure how to prevent that. I'd say just make sure that your vit D and calcium intake is high (to suppress PTH) and you get enough calories and salt to keep adrenals in check.

 

[Santosh]

Gonadorelin vs HCG: which is best for TRT? » TESTONATION

HCG vs Gonadorelin. I'm going to show you which is best for TRT, testicular shrinkage, fertility or maximizing testosterone naturally.

men-elite.com

I've been on transdermal testosterone base for 4 years now, my testicles are still full size, and ejaculatory volume is bigger than when I was on nothing.

I think there is something very specific to esterified hormones that shut you down because they are in your blood 24/7.

Maybe the shutdown even has to do with the toxicity of the ester.

So I never needed HCG while maintaining T levels 3 times higher than my natural levels and way above the top of the lab range.

 

[Motorneuron]

I've been on transdermal testosterone base for 4 years now, my testicles are still full size, and ejaculatory volume is bigger than when I was on nothing.

I think there is something very specific to esterified hormones that shut you down because they are in your blood 24/7.

Maybe the shutdown even has to do with the toxicity of the ester.

So I never needed HCG while maintaining T levels 3 times higher than my natural levels and way above the top of the lab range.

How did you make the topical solution?

 

[Hans]

I've been on transdermal testosterone base for 4 years now, my testicles are still full size, and ejaculatory volume is bigger than when I was on nothing.

I think there is something very specific to esterified hormones that shut you down because they are in your blood 24/7.

Maybe the shutdown even has to do with the toxicity of the ester.

So I never needed HCG while maintaining T levels 3 times higher than my natural levels and way above the top of the lab range.

I agree. The constant suppression is very non-ideal.
I think there is something special about scrotal T as well. There is no research on this, but I think scrotal T helps to maintain intratesticular T, which helps with sperm production, prevents shrinkage, etc.

 

[Santosh]

How did you make the topical solution?

Plenty of threads discussing that very topic, different formulas are available depending on your personal liking.