Gonadin - Liquid Steroid Optimizer For Lab/R&D

[ddjd]

4 drops with breakfast; cold hands and feet all day so far. This usually forecasts a restless night.

That just means high adrenaline no? Did you have enough food with it?

 

[ddjd]

I took 10 drops and my penis went into hiding for a few days. Could be that it converted to estrogen^ or raised progesterone too high

Same with me. Would be good to know what's going on there.

 

[Black Ops]

Most likely the increase in progesterone caused this. I doubt the estrogen is at fault due to phytol being a potent aromatase inhibitor.

 

[managing]

What amounts of these are you taking?

I don't recall precisely anymore. But very low. 2.5mg subling dhea I believe and one or two drops pansterone.

 

[ddjd]

@haidut I've had what I thought as a Cortisol belly for years. You know the type, skinny legs but big baloon of a belly. Seems to run in the family as my brother and dad have it too.

4 drops of gonadin and I'm flat! Amazing.

So is it actually estrogen that causes the bloated belly rather than cortisol?

 

[ddjd]

Took the new Gonadin for two days, first day recommended 8 drops not much effect. Second day took two doses (16 drops) with 10 drops Diamant. Around 10-15 minutes felt a good pep my mood. Started singing a bunch while making dinner. Wanted to exercise way more than usual. Pretty clear headed as well. Definitely think the added methyl palmitate is a great boost for lowering cortisol.

do you think its more cortisol or estrogen lowering?

 

[Epistrophy]

do you think its more cortisol or estrogen lowering?

I believe cortisol due to not having much estrogen symptoms.

 

[ddjd]

I believe cortisol due to not having much estrogen symptoms.

Ahhh so by reducing cortisol it automatically reduces estrogen also?

 

[ddjd]

I took 10 drops and my penis went into hiding for a few days. Could be that it converted to estrogen^ or raised progesterone too high

Just to follow up on this. I've been experimenting a lot more with gonadin and really like it. The first time I took it I got the penis shrinking thing but it seems to be only the first time. After that it didn't happen again.

I feel stronger in my muscles and I think I have more endurance, would that be from testosterone increase?

Only thing is I can't take it too close to bedtime as it seems to keep me awake with all the energy

 

[mr.mag]

Not really, I just want to avoid vitamin K interacting with vitamin E if I decide to take it on some days when I dine on commercial food at work. It is also more convenient to take the fat soluble supplements once weekly and then not have to worry about it for another 7 days.

what is the interaction between k and e?

 

[haidut]

what is the interaction between k and e?

Search Google for this "site:raypeatforum.com vitamin E and K interaction" without the quotes.

 

[haidut]

@haidut I've had what I thought as a Cortisol belly for years. You know the type, skinny legs but big baloon of a belly. Seems to run in the family as my brother and dad have it too.

4 drops of gonadin and I'm flat! Amazing.

So is it actually estrogen that causes the bloated belly rather than cortisol?

Both are involved. Estrogen is also known as "adipin" so it stimulates the accumulation of fat. Cortisol does the same and it also increases synthesis of estrogen, which then increases release of cortisol. So, it is a vicious circle and usually lowering even one of these hormones tends to interrupt it.
The phytol in Gonadin also apparently lowers the enzyme fatty acid synthase (FASN), which can help with weight loss.
Toxic effects of phytol and retinol on human glioblastoma cells are associated with modulation of cholesterol and fatty acid biosynthetic pathways

 

[haidut]

Ahhh so by reducing cortisol it automatically reduces estrogen also?

Yes, cortisol stimulates aromatase and then estrogen pushes the adrenals to make even more cortisol.

 

[haidut]

Just to follow up on this. I've been experimenting a lot more with gonadin and really like it. The first time I took it I got the penis shrinking thing but it seems to be only the first time. After that it didn't happen again.

I feel stronger in my muscles and I think I have more endurance, would that be from testosterone increase?

Only thing is I can't take it too close to bedtime as it seems to keep me awake with all the energy

Excellent, thanks for the feedback. Yes, the higher energy and better muscle tone could be from higher T.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Brandnew publication on the Test and Progesterone enhancing effects of Gernylgeraniol (mentionend in the first post)
A novel function of geranylgeraniol in regulating testosterone production. - PubMed - NCBI

A novel function of geranylgeraniol in regulating testosterone production.
Ho HJ, et al. Biosci Biotechnol Biochem. 2018.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29303051/?i=1&from=farnesol#

Abstract
Isoprenoids play widely differing roles in various physiological processes in animals and plants. Geranylgeraniol (GGOH) is an isoprenoid found in plants, and is an important metabolic derivative in the isoprenoid/cholesterol synthesis pathway. Earlier studies focused on GGOH's ability to improve the side effects of bisphosphonate therapy by regulating the mevalonate pathway. More recently, the mevalonate pathway-independent effects of GGOH have been described, including anti-inflammatory, anti-tumorigenic, and neuroprotective activities. It is noteworthy that GGOH regulates the steroidogenesis pathway in testis-derived I-10 tumor cells. Testosterone is a hormone produced via steroidogenesis in testicles and plays a role in fetal development and the male reproductive system. GGOH enhanced testosterone and progesterone (its precursor) levels in I-10 cells by activating adenylate cyclase via cAMP/PKA signaling, without altering phosphodiesterase activity. These findings highlight the potential benefits of GGOH as a therapeutic agent for low testosterone levels, such as late-onset hypogonadism in men.

 

[haidut]

Brandnew publication on the Test and Progesterone enhancing effects of Gernylgeraniol (mentionend in the first post)
A novel function of geranylgeraniol in regulating testosterone production. - PubMed - NCBI

A novel function of geranylgeraniol in regulating testosterone production.
Ho HJ, et al. Biosci Biotechnol Biochem. 2018.

Abstract
Isoprenoids play widely differing roles in various physiological processes in animals and plants. Geranylgeraniol (GGOH) is an isoprenoid found in plants, and is an important metabolic derivative in the isoprenoid/cholesterol synthesis pathway. Earlier studies focused on GGOH's ability to improve the side effects of bisphosphonate therapy by regulating the mevalonate pathway. More recently, the mevalonate pathway-independent effects of GGOH have been described, including anti-inflammatory, anti-tumorigenic, and neuroprotective activities. It is noteworthy that GGOH regulates the steroidogenesis pathway in testis-derived I-10 tumor cells. Testosterone is a hormone produced via steroidogenesis in testicles and plays a role in fetal development and the male reproductive system. GGOH enhanced testosterone and progesterone (its precursor) levels in I-10 cells by activating adenylate cyclase via cAMP/PKA signaling, without altering phosphodiesterase activity. These findings highlight the potential benefits of GGOH as a therapeutic agent for low testosterone levels, such as late-onset hypogonadism in men.

Thanks, this is actually from the same authors who did the in vitro studies I posted in the original Gonadi thread. They also mention phytol as having the same effects as GGOH.
"...Testosterone and progesterone levels in I-10 cell culture mediums markedly increased in the presence of phytol and GGPP, but not in the presence of GOH. Meanwhile, FOH enhanced progesterone, but not testosterone levels. These results indicated that phytol and GGOH have similar effects on testosterone and progesterone production although, unexpectedly, GOH did not affect steroid production in I-10 cells. Recent researches have revealed the biological activity of compounds derived from the isoprenoid/cholesterol synthesis pathway. These isoprenoids, including FOH, GOH, and phytol, regulate various biological processes [47–49]. The results indicated that not only GGOH, but other isoprenoid derivatives, can enhance testosterone and progesterone levels, although the mechanisms by which they exert these effects are yet to be clarified."

But most importantly (so thank you again for sending this!) in the current study they also did in vivo study with GGOH and found that it again raises T levels. Since the in vitro tests in the previous studies used the same concentration of phytol and GGOH (100 uM/L), we can use this experiment to estimate the needed in vivo dose for phytol. The current study used 48.3 mg/kg of diet in rats, which is 4.83 mg/kg of bodyweight, which is an HED of 0.8 mg/kg. Since phytol has slightly higher molar mass than GGOH the HED for phytol would be 0.816 mg/kg and thus the 100mg a dose of Gonadin provides should be more than enough to replicate this study. As you can see from the attached image, T levels doubled and did so in just 10 days supplementing with GGOH.
"...We also found that dietary supplementation of MK-4 enhanced plasma testosterone levels in rats, without any alternation of plasma LH levels [45]. Based on the results of our cell-based experiments [32], we conducted further experiments on the effects of GGOH on testosterone production in animals. Eight-week-old Wistar male rats were purchased from SLC Japan (Shizuoka, Japan) and fed either GGOH supplemented (48.3 mg/kg of diet) or control diet for 10 days. Growth performance did not differ between both diets, but plasma testosterone levels in GGOH supplemented group were found to be elevated compared to that of control group, indicating that dietary supplementation of GGOH significantly elevates plasma testosterone levels (unpublished data, Figure 4). These findings provide novel mechanistic insights into the process of testosterone production and may be useful for the development of therapeutic strategies to counter age-associated declines in testosterone levels in men. In summary, the novel role of GGOH in steroidogenesis may bring new possibilities and could be useful in the development of therapeutics for the treatment of men with LOH."

 

[brentipold]

I'm double bumping. What's the latest to report back re hair growth?

I had positive improvements w/ hair on this product, but like most supplements, the results always fade for me.

 

[Sonybaloney]

Have there been any positive effects on female rats? What would a female expect from gonadin? I have that cortisol belly, too. Worse in the evening. Any recommendations?

 

[EtienneAmelie]

I know you said Gonadin shouldn't be administered with other steroids, but could it be possible to make a protocol of 4 days Gonadin and 3 days Pansterone ?

 

[haidut]

I know you said Gonadin shouldn't be administered with other steroids, but could it be possible to make a protocol of 4 days Gonadin and 3 days Pansterone ?

Don't see why not. I know quite a few people who use it concurrently and said they feel great. Ultimately, experience/experiment trumps theory