Gods Of The New Age

[goodandevil]

You make some good points. There's a fine line between aggression and assertion.

I can't speak as a woman, but as a man, there is a way to retain your masculine identity while not being angry at the world.

Be kind, but be selective in who you are kind to. Not everyone deserves it.

Oh, and i wanted to add Dave, that there is a tremendous pool of repressed anger. I think you support Trump and that's great, i understand why, but nonetheless there's a vast pool of anger, like water pent up in a dam a thousand feet high, and in the near future it will be unleashed, maybe for the better, but maybe for the worse. As to anger I say "don't hold back"; be comfortably "negative", true to your convictions, unafraid of castigation or exclusiom from the pack. Then, doing your best to be respectful and treating others how you wish to be treated, and having tolerance for the opinion of others, you will be free to voice your own opinion, to expect your own opiniom to be tolerated, and then the anger will fall naturally where it belongs. These days there are only a handful of opinions amongst hundereds of millions of people.

 

[goodandevil]

I recently heard a comment from a trauma therapist that all this new age, spiritual bypassing was a possible PyschOps to make us more crazy and less effectual.

Sure! I believe it. Hinduism and the caste system, basically anything eastern, in fact collectively form the zenith of ideological slavery systems. Just like egyptian spiritual systems, which we also have seen a resurgence of, the people who lived in those systems have remained slaves for thousands, if not tens of thousands of years. The reason so much comes also from egypt in the new age movement is because as the desert took over, more sophisticated lies were needed to control the people and quell dissent. The caste system in india is more entrenched than ever. Meditation splits the self, just like trauma, so im not surprised at all that it would come to the attention of a trauma specialist.

 

[Greg says]

This line of thinking is something I have become interested in. As a whole the 'new age', 'spiritual', zen, etc. line of thinking is not what I'd call healthy in the way Ray Peat talks about health. They seem quite rigid and dogmatic and superior (at least in the western context). Just look at modern day Yoga teachers. That is very ego driven (look at me, I've changed my name from Dave Smith to Shiva Moonbeam, look at this crazy pose, look at my expensive yoga pants, look how spiritual I am). I don't even think westerners should be a part of this (these traditions are thousands of years old, we are only a few hundred years old). It's easy to be zen on the top of a mountain, with no pollution, noise and crowds to bother you.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Spiritual materialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Greg says]

 

[Such_Saturation]

I'm tying my noose as we speak.

 

[Drareg]

:pThey are making money doing this = they are successful,all of your are jealous and not being ,"positive". Being positive relative to what they say is positive.

It seems Many followers are desperate for meaning, they take full advantage by informing them with clever philosophy they have not heard before.
Craving connection with something larger because you can't connect with fellow humans,people will connect more with dogs and animals before entertaining humans,in many cases we know why, the selfishness,it's all about me,if I'm not the centre of attention I won't interact. It's an ego exchange these days, no dialogue allowed.

I think the person who practises the illusion of knowing and regressing away from humans is the worse kind, if you have any real knowing you would interact with those less intelligent/enlightened to real truths. I would imagine You would need to be subtle in how you do it, simple things can create a butterfly effect. Ray Peat?

It can be fun sport to call out egomaniacs these days,reasonably done and to the point, it can also make people laugh. It can also get you arrested/killed.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think it's an excuse to feel more freedom, it's very similar between these narcissist gurus and someone who wears drag or a fur-suit, etc.

 

[Ideonaut]

I'm not sure you realize that during meditation you are the most "alive" you can be...

I suppose you assert that from personal experience since it is so categorical. I've personally never achieved any such thing with meditation and doubt it's possibility. What's "most alive" supposed to mean, anyway? I would suggest having not only the highest but most engaged metabolism. And to me that means interacting with the real world in a meaningful way, not vegging out with escapist meditation. How about this for a "most alive" situation: competing with all your might at something you really enjoy and are tremendously good at, when tremendous stakes are involved and there is a world to win, and are winning! I think Tesla reciting the lines from Faust and the idea for the ac motor came to him. I also think of times when I felt so healthy and was enjoying nature, or sex, or learning something fascinating or doing something fun, so much that I was tremendously exhilarated. I'd chose all of these things over meditating.

 

[Bodhi]

I still love Osho and his vision....

Since he died of a very low Metabolic Rate, Ray Peat became my latest GURU...

 

[Such_Saturation]

I suppose you assert that from personal experience since it is so categorical. I've personally never achieved any such thing with meditation and doubt it's possibility. What's "most alive" supposed to mean, anyway? I would suggest having not only the highest but most engaged metabolism. And to me that means interacting with the real world in a meaningful way, not vegging out with escapist meditation. How about this for a "most alive" situation: competing with all your might at something you really enjoy and are tremendously good at, when tremendous stakes are involved and there is a world to win, and are winning! I think Tesla reciting the lines from Faust and the idea for the ac motor came to him. I also think of times when I felt so healthy and was enjoying nature, or sex, or learning something fascinating or doing something fun, so much that I was tremendously exhilarated. I'd chose all of these things over meditating.

What's more alive, gamma waves in your brain (40Hz) or something lower than that?

 

[Makrosky]

I recently heard a comment from a trauma therapist that all this new age, spiritual bypassing was a possible PyschOps to make us more crazy and less effectual.

There's a big difference with genuine spiritual paths that have been with humankind since the beginning and also exist actually, than those from the last 60 years of new age. The problem is finding a legit one in this time where 95% is bull****.

I think the new age phenomena is indicative of a desire for finding something trascendental but since we live in a world that sees everything as a merchandise, an experience, something to inflate your ego, then it's clear the real desire gets lost in the spiritual supermarket.

Maybe you can tell your therapist what if all the trauma and PTSD hypothesis were also a psychops to refrain the people from changing the social world ? You are in a damned office under fluorescent lights, with zombie coworkers, doing a repetitive meaningless job, eating PUFA foods for lunch and you feell..ohboy, I'm gonna crush someone, I hate all of this. It must be my trauma, my parents, my childhood that imprinted me a bad metabolism or a bad traumatic memories. Oh my. What if all the trauma thing is a psychop to deviate you from actually changing something "out there" and start working "in here" ? In the meanwhile government and bigcoprs polute, feed posions to people, exploit with capitalism, make pepole soulless with repetitive bureucratic jobs. What if, instead of going to a trauma therapist, you start a union against fluorescent lights ? I hope you get my point Greg I don't want to dismiss anyone suffering. I was just trying to show another plausible side of the prism.

 

[barefooter]

This line of thinking is something I have become interested in. As a whole the 'new age', 'spiritual', zen, etc. line of thinking is not what I'd call healthy in the way Ray Peat talks about health. They seem quite rigid and dogmatic and superior (at least in the western context). Just look at modern day Yoga teachers. That is very ego driven (look at me, I've changed my name from Dave Smith to Shiva Moonbeam, look at this crazy pose, look at my expensive yoga pants, look how spiritual I am).

Hahaha, so true. The other one that really gets me, is the people who base their lives around burning man, EDM festivals, and other similar events. I mean, I'm all for a good party and love dancing until the wee hours, but these people pretend that they're ******* enlightened because they wear hip clothing with sacred geometry on it and have an LED hoola hoop. Let be honest, you just like getting ****88 up and dancing to great music with half naked chicks, just call it what it is and stop pretending! There's no shame in a little hedonism, but pretending it's some kind of enlightening and superior path is ridiculous.

There is so much ******* eliteism in new age spiritual BS. For anyone needing some comical relief about this, JP Sears has some hilarious videos on YouTube. Here's a good one to start with. . I bought into the new age BS for a while, and it ****88 me up, so watching his videos has been pretty therapeutic for me.

 

[barefooter]

I was a big fan of Osho for many years. I was obsessed with meditation and enlightenment. Got into magic mushrooms eventually because i was so desperate. ****ed me up real good. I got totally sick of this enlightenment stuff etc. Nowadays i don't have any trust in these gurus etc. I was much happier before i read any of this **** anyway. I just wanna be a normal person nowadays. It's been really hard. I've experienced fear, anxiety and hopelessness i didn't knew exist. I've been really broken. Slowly, slowly i've regained my happiness and personality. Definitely believe in God still. I don't think "he" is a big guy up there somewhere though. It has helped a lot to think that i'm just a little human being here and i don't need to be "enlightent" or something and know the ins and outs of the universe.

I'm really sorry to hear about this, as I can relate. I was never into Osho, but I think I followed a somewhat similar path to what you describe, and it ****88 me up too. It's taken about a year to only partially recover from the fallout. What I've noticed since all this went down, is the western communities of meditators, psychonauts, etc. are filled with very damaged people, many of whom probably have serious childhood trauma. When I was engaging in these communities, they had me convinced for a while that my childhood was more ****88 up than it really was, and that I needed to follow their path to being a fully expressed being. Only problem is, that none of them were actually healed, they were just pretending to be superior to me and act as teachers, to feel healed. Unfortunately, it took me a while to figure this all out. They were finding a way out of their own suffering, by imposing it on others.

When I was in Bali last year, I stayed at this shaking meditation center (basically a cult), and I got to observe some of the ****88 up guru student dynamics first hand. The guru was supposed to be this all loving dude, and everyone worshiped him and did as he wanted, because they wanted his love so badly. They were like a bunch of children begging for the love of a father that left them, and in truth most of the ones that fell for it likely had very unloving upbringings. But the interesting thing I observed, when the students weren't inflating the ego of the guru, by falling over when he blew on them, or chewing tobacco he spit on the ground (these things happened daily!), is that he appeared to be quite a miserably unhappy man.

I observed him one evening eating alone in the kitchen, and he just had such a withdrawn and depressed look on his face. I couldn't help but think that he was previously just like the students, wounded and craving love, and that he learned to heal his suffering by letting other prop him up. The only problem was, that he had let others inflate his ego so big, that he could no longer relate to anyone and was more alone than ever. Obviously a lot of this is conjecture, but my suspicion is this is a common pattern with gurus in general.

 

[Greg says]

There's a big difference with genuine spiritual paths that have been with humankind since the beginning and also exist actually, than those from the last 60 years of new age. The problem is finding a legit one in this time where 95% is bull****.

I think the new age phenomena is indicative of a desire for finding something trascendental but since we live in a world that sees everything as a merchandise, an experience, something to inflate your ego, then it's clear the real desire gets lost in the spiritual supermarket.

Maybe you can tell your therapist what if all the trauma and PTSD hypothesis were also a psychops to refrain the people from changing the social world ? You are in a damned office under fluorescent lights, with zombie coworkers, doing a repetitive meaningless job, eating PUFA foods for lunch and you feell..ohboy, I'm gonna crush someone, I hate all of this. It must be my trauma, my parents, my childhood that imprinted me a bad metabolism or a bad traumatic memories. Oh my. What if all the trauma thing is a psychop to deviate you from actually changing something "out there" and start working "in here" ? In the meanwhile government and bigcoprs polute, feed posions to people, exploit with capitalism, make pepole soulless with repetitive bureucratic jobs. What if, instead of going to a trauma therapist, you start a union against fluorescent lights ? I hope you get my point Greg I don't want to dismiss anyone suffering. I was just trying to show another plausible side of the prism.

yeah I get your point. I'm on this forum as part of my 'spiritual journey' of learning, unlearning and bettering myself. I don't know what is a PyschOp and what isn't. Its all a big PyschOp I reckon! PsychOps are very clever and sophisticated, pushing our emotional buttons.

I do think that we all, in society, are put in a continual state of trauma. Do your job, eat your PUFA, pay your mortgage, consume and shut up. Even witnessing isolated events like 9/11 is traumatic for human eyes. We can't handle seeing stuff like that. As a society we must have a collected PTSD. Also just like spiritualism, I think the whole conspiracy, illuminati thing might be another PsychOp. Even the government and regular people are talking about it which makes me suspicious.

 

[barefooter]

There's a big difference with genuine spiritual paths that have been with humankind since the beginning and also exist actually, than those from the last 60 years of new age. The problem is finding a legit one in this time where 95% is bull****.

I think the thing about most spiritual practices, is that they're very contextual, and you can't just import them into a new culture and have it have any meaning. It seems a lot of ancient spiritual practices arise out of an intimate relationship with the people and the land, water, and sky. These are practices to ensure healthy lives, good weather, high crop yields, good hunting, and other very practical things, they're not just meaningless esoteric procedures. In general, people are quite practical, it's just often we only see part of the picture, so we don't realize how things came to be by a long serious of rational decisions.

 

[Greg says]

Hahaha, so true. The other one that really gets me, is the people who base their lives around burning man, EDM festivals, and other similar events. I mean, I'm all for a good party and love dancing until the wee hours, but these people pretend that they're ****ing enlightened because they wear hip clothing with sacred geometry on it and have an LED hoola hoop. Let be honest, you just like getting ****ed up and dancing to great music with half naked chicks, just call it what it is and stop pretending! There's no shame in a little hedonism, but pretending it's some kind of enlightening and superior path is ridiculous.

There is so much ****ing eliteism in new age spiritual BS. For anyone needing some comical relief about this, JP Sears has some hilarious videos on YouTube. Here's a good one to start with. . I bought into the new age BS for a while, and it ****ed me up, so watching his videos has been pretty therapeutic for me.

haha yes, that really reminds me of someone I know who goes to Burning Man. He also runs expensive Ayuashca cerimonies in a teepee. He really talks down to me, condescending me when I talk about health. He is so hypo but gives off an air of enlightenment because he's on his 4th Burning Man. He drinks a lot and does coke and is really into Landmark.

 

[barefooter]

He drinks a lot and does coke and is really into Landmark.

Oh dear god, I think landmark is a worse habit than any of his drug use :). My exe GF was into that ***t big time, and she would spew meaningless platitudes at me in arguments. She held so strong to what she learned in landmark being the absolute truth. Most infuriating person I've ever argued with, which is why she's now my ex.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I liked this Osho video when I saw it because the idea of countries and imaginary borders is something that I thought of years before I saw him talk about it:



Humanity will one day have to live in a world without borders simply because of limited natural resources and because of what the nature of the planet will be a long time from now, that is of course if humans survive long enough for that to happen.

With that said, the modern "spiritual" culture is nothing more than passive-aggressive, dirty, smelly salesmen who masquerade as hippies for attention and social status.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

I liked this Osho video when I saw it because the idea of countries and imaginary borders is something that I thought of years before I saw him talk about it:



Humanity will one day have to live in a world without borders simply because of limited natural resources and because of what the nature of the planet will be a long time from now, that is of course if humans survive long enough for that to happen.

With that said, the modern "spiritual" culture is nothing more than passive-aggressive, dirty, smelly salesmen who masquerade as hippies for attention and social status.

Yeah, he may have some good things to say here and there. Just like all of us.
Even though i don't want to watch his videos anymore for a minute, i don't feel bitter towards him, and i think he's a fun guy.