GIVING UP: My Accutane Related Hair Loss Update

Dhair

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I'm about to give up on the Ray Peat approach.
My hair continues to fall out at an alarming rate since I tried accutane 2 years ago and will not slow down no matter what I do. I had a full head of hair summer of 2014. I'm easily a norwood 4 now. I seem to be recovering from my Levaquin poisoning, but it's taken a loooong time.
My skin issues seem to be getting worse. A strange crust has started to develop along my hairline and I have unbelievably bad dandruff and dry skin.
I am doing EVERYTHING. Vitamin D/A/K supplemenation, high calcium intake, avoiding PUFA. Nothing is working.
To make matters worse, no one can tell me anywhere online what accutane's mechanism of action is and there are precious few resources online to guide me through this. No one knows anything.
I'm supplementing glycine, taurine and caffeine in an attempt to fix any liver issues I might have. I THINK that my eczema (which appeared at the EXACT same time my hair loss problems started) may have improved but I can't be sure. Still, the hair continues to fall.
Ive been at this for many months now, and it's a shame that I havent seen any results because I enjoy researching this stuff and I like this community. But this clearly isn't for me. I think I may have to accept that I was robbed of my youth and get over it.
EDIT: If anyone is interested , this guy has the exact same hair loss experience as me. In the video, he says he attempted accutane in his early 20s. He's now 30 and he's completely bald.
 
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haidut

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I'm about to give up on the Ray Peat approach.
My hair continues to fall out at an alarming rate since I tried accutane 2 years ago and will not slow down no matter what I do. I had a full head of hair summer of 2014. I'm easily a norwood 4 now. I seem to be recovering from my Levaquin poisoning, but it's taken a loooong time.
My skin issues seem to be getting worse. A strange crust has started to develop along my hairline and I have unbelievably bad dandruff and dry skin.
I am doing EVERYTHING. Vitamin D/A/K supplemenation, high calcium intake, avoiding PUFA. Nothing is working.
To make matters worse, no one can tell me anywhere online what accutane's mechanism of action is and there are precious few resources online to guide me through this. No one knows anything.
I'm supplementing glycine, taurine and caffeine in an attempt to fix any liver issues I might have. I THINK that my eczema (which appeared at the EXACT same time my hair loss problems started) may have improved but I can't be sure. Still, the hair continues to fall.
Ive been at this for many months now, and it's a shame that I havent seen any results because I enjoy researching this stuff and I like this community. But this clearly isn't for me. I think I may have to accept that I was robbed of my youth and get over it.
EDIT: If anyone is interested , this guy has the exact same hair loss experience as me. In the video, he says he attempted accutane in his early 20s. He's now 30 and he's completely bald.


Well, at least it throws the androgen theory of hair loss into serious doubt as far as I am concerned. Accutane is a powerful inhibitor of DHT production in skin as that is what apparently cause the direct symptoms of acne. If it can cause such classic MPB symptoms by lowering DHT in skin then then the entire theory of DHT and baldness is probably bunk, just as it was found to be for prostate cancer.
 

rw39

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Well, at least it throws the androgen theory of hair loss into serious doubt as far as I am concerned. Accutane is a powerful inhibitor of DHT production in skin as that is what apparently cause the direct symptoms of acne. If it can cause such classic MPB symptoms by lowering DHT in skin then then the entire theory of DHT and baldness is probably bunk, just as it was found to be for prostate cancer.

There are other mechanisms of action of this drug that is unknown, considering it's a chemotherapy drug. I do agree that it seems puzzling that a potent 5-ar inhibitor and a dht inhibitor such as accutane would cause hair loss, when on paper and by theory, it's supposed to do just the opposite. Do you think it's because of the drying effects perhaps, and not the DHT inhibition? Follicles get too dried out and thin, some people are unable to grow it back. Some are.
 
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Dhair

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Well, at least it throws the androgen theory of hair loss into serious doubt as far as I am concerned. Accutane is a powerful inhibitor of DHT production in skin as that is what apparently cause the direct symptoms of acne. If it can cause such classic MPB symptoms by lowering DHT in skin then then the entire theory of DHT and baldness is probably bunk, just as it was found to be for prostate cancer.
Good news for people who havent started losing their hair yet. as for me, it's too late.
How would one even go about restoring sebaceous gland function?
 
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Dhair

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There are other mechanisms of action of this drug that is unknown, considering it's a chemotherapy drug. I do agree that it seems puzzling that a potent 5-ar inhibitor and a dht inhibitor such as accutane would cause hair loss, when on paper and by theory, it's supposed to do just the opposite. Do you think it's because of the drying effects perhaps, and not the DHT inhibition? Follicles get too dried out and thin, some people are unable to grow it back. Some are.
I think you're right. I only have a rudimentary understanding of it, but basically accutane stops all sebum production, maybe permanently, and that's bad for hair. I don't know all of the intricacies of this would be because like I said there really is no info on accutane that could actually get me closer to solving the problem.
I'm tempted to just try emu oil and castor oil applied to the scalp. that may get me closer to solving the more immediate problem. I don't know.
 

Belsazar

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Isotretinoin acts on so many levels. I still dont know if it is synthetic or occurs in this form in the human body naturally. The problem is usually the high dosage and lots of unwanted side effects. Normal vitamin a (even low dose is enough for acne) is much safer.

Just a little input from my side, what isotretinoin is doing (what doctors usually dont tell you when prescribing it, they still say mechanism of action is somehow unknown):
it lowers thyroid hormones - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0009898184900743
it lowers biotinidase activity - The effect of isotretinoin on biotinidase activity. - PubMed - NCBI
it lowers folic acid - Effects of oral isotretinoin on serum folic acid levels. - PubMed - NCBI
it lowers b12/folic acid - Decreased Vitamin B12 and Folic Acid Concentrations in Acne Patients After Isotretinoin Therapy: A Controlled Study
it lowers thyroid and pituitary hormones (t3, t4, cortisol, prolactin but also testosterone) - Isotretinoin influences pituitary hormone levels in acne patients. - PubMed - NCBI
it acts on vitamin d - Therapeutic hotline. Does isotretinoin have effect on vitamin D physiology and bone metabolism in acne patients? - PubMed - NCBI, Serum levels of vitamin D metabolites in isotretinoin-treated acne patients. - PubMed - NCBI
it lowers vitamin e - Effects of isotretinoin on serum vitamin E levels in patients with acne. - PubMed - NCBI
 

Dante

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Well, at least it throws the androgen theory of hair loss into serious doubt as far as I am concerned. Accutane is a powerful inhibitor of DHT production in skin as that is what apparently cause the direct symptoms of acne. If it can cause such classic MPB symptoms by lowering DHT in skin then then the entire theory of DHT and baldness is probably bunk, just as it was found to be for prostate cancer.
What about BPH ? fin and dut shrink the prostate though. Accutane may have some other route like excess dryness as a user posted above. Endo is hardly 10% understood IMO (may be even less).
 

haidut

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There are other mechanisms of action of this drug that is unknown, considering it's a chemotherapy drug. I do agree that it seems puzzling that a potent 5-ar inhibitor and a dht inhibitor such as accutane would cause hair loss, when on paper and by theory, it's supposed to do just the opposite. Do you think it's because of the drying effects perhaps, and not the DHT inhibition? Follicles get too dried out and thin, some people are unable to grow it back. Some are.

It definitely has a drying effect, like regular vitamin A (retinol) but regular retinol does not cause hair loss. I suspect that Accutane is a thyroid inhibitor, much more potent than retinol. As such, hypothyroidism (and its associated drop of androgen levels and increase in estrogen and cortisol) once again emerges as a likely cause of MPB.
Isotretinoin associated reversible hypothyroidism. - PubMed - NCBI
Presumed Isotretinoin-Induced, Concomitant Autoimmune Thyroid Disease and Ocular Myasthenia Gravis: A Case Report
http://www.ijdvl.com/article.asp?is...me=82;issue=5;spage=587;epage=588;aulast=Uyar
"...Results: In the isotretinoin-treated group, thyroid stimulating hormone levels increased significantly during isotretinoin treatment (P = 0.018). Free triiodothyronine, free thyroxine, anti-thyroid peroxidase levels and thyroid volume decreased significantly during treatment (P = 0.016, P= 0.012, P= 0.006, P = 0.020 respectively). Limitations: The major limitation of this study is the lack of follow-up data after the cessation of isotretinoin therapy in acne patients. Conclusion: Patients treated with isotretinoin should be monitored with thyroid function tests."
 

haidut

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Good news for people who havent started losing their hair yet. as for me, it's too late.
How would one even go about restoring sebaceous gland function?

Sebaceous gland function is promoted by all androgens. DHEA, T, DHT and androsterone can all do it so if you want to stick to OTC remedies DHEA and androsterone are the best options. But I would also take thyroid as I suspect Accutane caused hypothyroidism in your case, as it is known to do. I am guessing your doctor never even thought about testing thyroid before/after Accutane, right? See my response above in regards to Accutane and hypothyroidism.
 

haidut

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What about BPH ? fin and dut shrink the prostate though. Accutane may have some other route like excess dryness as a user posted above. Endo is hardly 10% understood IMO (may be even less).

Andractim (the DHT gel sold in Europe) is used as a prescription drug to treat BPH, so DHT is not the bad guy. Even the Wikipedia page on DHT now says that the link between DHT and BPH and prostate cancer has been refuted. As I mentioned on the Danny Roddy shows, 5-AR inhibitor and anti-androgens cause the prostate to atrophy. I supposed that is one way to shrink the prostate and improve urine flow, but any atrophy has a high chance of developing into cancer. And the 5-AR inhibitors are known to actually cause a very aggressive prostate cancer that they were supposed to treat in the first place.
http://drcatalona.com/quest/quest_fall08_1.htm
"...The Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial was conducted to test whether finasteride could prevent prostate cancer over a relatively short 7-year study interval. A prostate biopsy was recommended for men with abnormal PSA or abnormal digital rectal examination screening results during the study. Overall, the incidence of prostate cancer in men who received finasteride was 25% lower, a seemingly good result. But a surprising and alarming 26% increase in high-grade tumors (Gleason score of 7-10) was reported for those on finasteride who were diagnosed with prostate cancer. That finding raised questions about whether finasteride actually induced high-grade prostate cancer. In fact, if the endpoint of the study had been the incidence of aggressive, high-grade prostate cancer, the conclusion would have been that finasteride was associated with an increased risk for life-threatening cancer. "
 
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Dhair

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Sebaceous gland function is promoted by all androgens. DHEA, T, DHT and androsterone can all do it so if you want to stick to OTC remedies DHEA and androsterone are the best options. But I would also take thyroid as I suspect Accutane caused hypothyroidism in your case, as it is known to do. I am guessing your doctor never even thought about testing thyroid before/after Accutane, right? See my response above in regards to Accutane and hypothyroidism.
I had my thyroid function checked before I tried finasteride several months back. That would have been well over a year after taking accutane. It was within the normal range.
I remember you posting in another thread that DHT and androsterone were basically interchangeable , right ?
 
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Dhair

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Do you have mpb or alopecia?
I follow Danny Roddy's line of thinking on this in that I believe it's not useful to make a distinction between different types of "alopecia." In other words, different patterns of hair loss don't have different causes.
But it's basically diffuse thinning. it's obviously in the MPB pattern but it's coming off in layers off of the top of my head.
 

Dante

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Even the Wikipedia page on DHT now says that the link between DHT and BPH and prostate cancer has been refuted. As I mentioned on the Danny Roddy shows, 5-AR inhibitor and anti-androgens cause the prostate to atrophy. I supposed that is one way to shrink the prostate and improve urine flow, but any atrophy has a high chance of developing into cancer. And the 5-AR inhibitors are known to actually cause a very aggressive prostate cancer that they were supposed to treat in the first place "
Nice, don't know about andractim. What's it success rate/clinical efficiency? Actually i was the one who told you that wikipedia has exonerated DHT but apparently someone has edited again that " DHT is involved in the pathogenesis of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) and prostate cancer".What the hell man !Dihydrotestosterone - Wikipedia
 

rw39

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Sebaceous gland function is promoted by all androgens. DHEA, T, DHT and androsterone can all do it so if you want to stick to OTC remedies DHEA and androsterone are the best options. But I would also take thyroid as I suspect Accutane caused hypothyroidism in your case, as it is known to do. I am guessing your doctor never even thought about testing thyroid before/after Accutane, right? See my response above in regards to Accutane and hypothyroidism.
Is a TSH of 4.4 high despite being in range?
 
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ya i took finasteride dude, it's very similar to me too. what other symptoms do you have? i think you need to work on lowering estrogen. can you breathe through your nose OK? try getting blood work, prolactin, vitD, and cholesterol. do you have constipation? i think you need a lot of salt to balance out the liquids in the ray peat diet, so if you don't do that, you will have bad water retention because you all ready have high estrogen.
 

Belsazar

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The studies i referred to says:
"We found that levels of fT3, TSH and TRAb decreased significantly following ISO treatment (p < 0.001, 0.02 and 0.02,respectively)."

"Although levels of thyroxine and triiodothyronine were lower after treatment (p < 0.05), there were no changes in basal levels of thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH)"

According to that you either have a decrease or steady value of TSH due to Isotretinoin treatment. So changes in TSH are maybe not a good indicator here. But anyway a TSH of 4.4 is probably too high.
 

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