Girl Heals SEVERE Acne In 6-12 Months With Diet And Lifestyle Only

[DuggaDugga]

Only if one is experiencing the side-effects (e.g. a teenager whose life "is being ruined" by acne).

It doesn't really. I think the best science indicates that total serum cholesterol plays a relatively minor role in atherosclerotic plaque formation.

I agree, but the amount of money generated off statins would seem to indicate that that unfortunately isn't the general consensus among prescribing clinicians.

Regardless, my point is that diminishing androgens to decrease sebum production is similarly myopic. It's the same type of reductionist thinking that led to Accutane.

 

[Travis]

Regardless, my point is that diminishing androgens to decrease sebum production is similarly myopic.

If you want to see it that way. But can you name one thing that would be more effective? with experimental data demonstrating its plausibility?

It's the same type of reductionist thinking that led to Accutane.

Greed is what led to Accutane™. This is merely the cis-isomer of active vitamin A. Since they couldn't patent a natural molecule, they simply made a slightly "tweaked" edition.

 

[churchmouth]

If anyone can help investigate the role of skin temperature in acne I would much appreciate it. I was first thinking in terms of low temperature promoting a different balance of bacteria, but it may also be an issue with skin/sebum not operating/flowing under the right properties. I started thinking about this when I was standing in front of a thermal gun/ screen and all my acne free friends skin was clearly hotter than mine.

In my search I pulled up that Roaccutane treatment resulted in significantly increased skin temperature, maybe this is a factor in how it works?

Also, I laugh at the link between milk in acne. My personal experience of over 5 years of milk/ avoidance was no elimination of acne, and much less satisfying diet.

 

[Travis]

Also, I laugh at the link between milk in acne. My personal experience of over 5 years of milk/ avoidance was no elimination of acne, and much less satisfying diet.

There should be nothing funny about the link, since the role androgens play in acne is indisputable and milk has androgens. Would you also find something funny about 1 + 1 = 2 ?

 

[churchmouth]

Sorry I just don't think it is the scape goat for acne people once led me to believe it is. Avoiding dairy for 7 years probably has done more harm than good.

 

[EIRE24]

There should be nothing funny about the link, since the role androgens play in acne is indisputable and milk has androgens. Would you also find something funny about 1 + 1 = 2 ?

What other foods have high levels of androgens linked to acne?

 

[Travis]

What other foods have high levels of androgens linked to acne?

I don't think any do. Here is a chart of androgens extracted from beef. They are on the order of micrograms per kilogram (μg/kg).
Click to embiggen

The concentrations found in milk are a few micrograms per liter (μg/L). Concentrated milk, as in cheese, would be even higher.

Impact of extraction solvents on steroid contents determined in beef
Food Chemistry 76 (2002) 83–88
Analytical, Nutritional and Clinical Methods Section

 

[EIRE24]

I don't think any do. Here is a chart of androgens extracted from beef. They are on the order of micrograms per kilogram (μg/kg), or parts per billion.
View attachment 6139 Click to embiggen

The concentrations found in milk are in micrograms per gram (μg/g), or parts per million. This is a one-thousand-fold difference between milk and beef. Concentrated milk, as in cheese, would be even higher.

Impact of extraction solvents on steroid contents determined in beef
Food Chemistry 76 (2002) 83–88
Analytical, Nutritional and Clinical Methods Section

Ok, strange that you think none of the foods are linked to acne but think that androgens and high cholesterol are a cause of acne which would be affected by food? Or am I not understanding it properly?

 

[Travis]

I think the only food that has enough androgens to cause acne is dairy, and only in high amounts.

 

[EIRE24]

I think the only food that has enough androgens to cause acne is dairy, since beef has concentrations that are over 1000× lower.

Ok, Thanks Travis.

 

[schultz]

If you read that study, you will see that acne-free people had sebum of less that 10% cholesterol (or cholesterol esters). The people with acne had sebum cholesterol levels over 20%.

Cholesterol could be there as a mediator of inflammation, or to provide some sort of help.

 

[DuggaDugga]

But can you name one thing that would be more effective? with experimental data demonstrating its plausibility?

Can I name one thing more effective against acne than dairy avoidance? That'd be impossible, as I have yet to see compelling evidence that quality dairy is at all involved in the pathology of acne. I understand the argument you're trying to make, but without being able to elucidate the mechanism by which dairy modifies sebum content to become pathological I'm unconvinced it's a valid reason to avoid a food which is such a great source of retinol and calcium, the former we know is directly involved in normal sebocyte differentiation.

 

[Tenacity]

Cholesterol could be there as a mediator of inflammation, or to provide some sort of help.

Perhaps the cholesterol isn't being converted to steroid hormones, for some reason? I recall Peat saying pregnenolone is important for skin.

 

[Travis]

...but without being able to elucidate the mechanism by which dairy modifies sebum content...

I am sure that the exact mechanism would be interesting to know. It probably involves a nuclear receptor transcribing mRNA, since this is how steroids likely exert their function.

But you don't need to know the mechanism to know that some androgens increase sebum production radically:

 

[lollipop]

Wanted to ask you @Travis about the role of gut problems/endotoxins on Acne. I do not have a litany of research behind me other than a n=1 and perhaps another n=1 with my husband. These seem more correlated together. Could it be a factor? Thus increasing gut health increases metabolic health increases overall body health decreases acne?

 

[Travis]

I did a quick search for articles about endotoxin and acne, since this seems like it might be related. I couldn't find an article that directly addressed this. Perhaps I'll read more about endotoxins in the next few days.

But I did find an interesting title, so I clicked it. The article is called Hormonal Correlates of Acne and Hirsutism.
Hormonal Correlates of Acne and Hirsutism
The American Journal of Medicine
ANNE W. LUCKY, M.D.

It's a quick read. I was expecting some info about other hormonal influences, but the article was basically just about androgens. Doctor Anne basically confirmed my thoughts. Here are a few quotes:

Acne is a multifactorial disorder reflecting the role of infection, abnormal keratiniaation and immunologic reaction, as well as hormonal influences, on the pilosebaceous unit. Clinical studies have correlated elevated levels of androgens, originating in both the adrenal glands and ovaries, with acne.

I know ⇑Ann. This is what I've been trying to tell people.

There have been literally hundreds of studies correlating serum hormone levels and sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) levels with acne and/or hirsutism [9-17].

So if anyone doesn't believe Dr. Ann, they can check references 9−17. It would be interesting to read how sex hormone binding globulin is correlated. You would think that low levels of this serum protein would lead to decreased carrying capacity of sex hormones. You might expect people with low levels to be more sensitive to additional sex hormones. This could be why it takes a few months of eating dairy for me to get clogged pores. It could take awhile to completely saturate SHBG.

Understanding the etiology of acne hinges on understanding the sources of androgens (Figure 2).

Figure 2 is just a lame flow diagram with a cartoonish hair follicle and androgens. Don't bother with figure 2. More interesting is Figure 1.

At early, mid, and late pubertal stages the ratio of wax esters to cholesterol and cholesterol esters rises in significant association with rising DHEAS in both boys and girls throughout puberty.

Looks like Dr. Anne read the same studies that I had.

The end organ, the skin, has the ability to metabolize androgen in a variety of locations, including the hair follicle sebocyte, fibroblast, and epidermis [25- 27]. Relatively nonandrogenic precursors, such as DHEA, can be converted to the more potent androgens-androstenedione, testosterone, and dihydrotestosterone (DHT)-and be metabolized to inactive end products such as 3-α-diol-G directly in the skin.

Interesting thing to consider for DHEA users.

Spironolactone competes with the androgen receptor and in some studies also reduces 5-α-reductase. There are many studies showing efficacy in acne vulgaris and hirsutism at doses of 50- 200 mg daily [36]. The lower doses seem to be quite successful in acne; higher doses are needed for alopecia and hirsutism.

Androgens promote acne: androgen inhibitors reverse acne.

Spironolactone is suggested for adult women with refractory acne that might be under hormonal influence.

Spirolactone features an testosterone-like steroid ring structure, but with an acetylthiol group in carbon 7 and a 5-membered lactone on carbon 17 (testosterone simply has one hydroxyl group there.) Spirolactone is a very weak androgen, and acts to inhibit the more powerful androgens at receptors.

In summary, the ovary and adrenal in concert both have underlying androgen production that can cause acne and/or hirsutism.

 

[churchmouth]

What is the correlation of SHBG with acne? Sorry can't go digging through links at the moment

 

[Travis]

What is the correlation of SHBG with acne?

Most likely androgen carrying capacity.

 

[churchmouth]

Can't access the study but the abstract seemed to indicate low SHBG is correlated with Acne. I might be an outlier acne type as I have high above range SHBG.

 

[DuggaDugga]

I did a quick search for articles about endotoxin and acne, since this seems like it might be related. I couldn't find an article that directly addressed this. Perhaps I'll read more about endotoxins in the next few days.

But I did find an interesting title, so I clicked it. The article is called Hormonal Correlates of Acne and Hirsutism.
Hormonal Correlates of Acne and Hirsutism
The American Journal of Medicine
ANNE W. LUCKY, M.D.

It's a quick read. I was expecting some info about other hormonal influences, but the article was basically just about androgens. Doctor Anne basically confirmed my thoughts. Here are a few quotes:



I know ⇑Ann. This is what I've been trying to tell people.



So if anyone doesn't believe Dr. Ann, they can check references 9−17. It would be interesting to read how sex hormone binding globulin is correlated. You would think that low levels of this serum protein would lead to decreased carrying capacity of sex hormones. You might expect people with low levels to be more sensitive to additional sex hormones. This could be why it takes a few months of eating dairy for me to get clogged pores. It could take awhile to completely saturate SHBG.



Figure 2 is just a lame flow diagram with a cartoonish hair follicle and androgens. Don't bother with figure 2. More interesting is Figure 1.



Looks like Dr. Anne read the same studies that I had.



Interesting thing to consider for DHEA users.



Androgens promote acne: androgen inhibitors reverse acne.

Spirolactone features an testosterone-like steroid ring structure, but with an acetylthiol group in carbon 7 and a 5-membered lactone on carbon 17 (testosterone simply has one hydroxyl group there.) Spirolactone is a very weak androgen, and acts to inhibit the more powerful androgens at receptors.

This still does nothing but demonstrate a correlation between androgens and acne; no causal mechanism has been elucidated. Insinuating in any capacity that one should inhibit androgens or for the sake of decreasing sebum production is reckless. Taking Spironolactone for acne is like taking isotretinoin for acne. It's a dangerous inhibition of normal cellular function and has tremendous side effects. Spironolactone is literally prescribed to individuals undergoing male-to-female transgender.

Antiandrogenic and antirenotropic effect of spironolactone. - PubMed - NCBI

Spironolactone blocked the action of endogenous testosterone in intact mice and led to further significant decrease in seminal vesicles and kidney weight in castrated mice.

Endocrine effects of spironolactone in man. - PubMed - NCBI

These changes are accompanied by increased androgen catabolism and a slightly increased conversion of androgens to oestrogens. Healthy men may therefore show alterations in sex steroid metabolism if treated for several days with high doses of spironolactone.

Increased serum oestrone and oestradiol following spironolactone administration in hypertensive men. - PubMed - NCBI

In the conventional-dosage group, serum oestrone concentrations significantly increased (P less than 0.01) at 12 weeks, serum oestradiol concentrations gradually increased throughout the study period, however, the increments were not statistically significant (P less than 0.2). Basal serum testosterone, LH and prolactin concentrations were not significantly changed throughout the study period. Enhancement of serum prolactin response to TRH was not found in any of the patients in the conventional-dosage group. In the high-dosage group, serum oestrone maintained high levels from the beginning of this study, and serum oestradiol concentrations increased with the development of gynaecomastia. Serum testosterone, LH and prolactin concentrations did not show any definite change throughout the study period. Thus, long-term spironolactone treatment increased the serum levels of oestrone and oestradiol in hypertensive men followed by the development of gynaecomastia. The elevation in circulating oestrogens could well explain the oestrogenic side-effects of spironolactone treatment.

Pathophysiology of spironolactone-induced gynecomastia. - PubMed - NCBI

These changes were primarily due to significant increases in the metabolic clearance rate of testosterone (P less than 0.02) and in the rate of peripheral conversion of testosterone into estradiol (P less than 0.001) in the spironolactone-treated group. Thus, spironolactone does alter the peripheral metabolism of testosterone resulting in changes in the ratio of testosterone to estradiol, which could contribute to the production of gynecomastia.